So How come the imperials are almost entirely humans?

[Rikalonius]

Not going to argue what Lucas' intent was from the movie script alone. That is like trying to divine the weather from chicken entrails. However, I will offer this comparison -

 

How many aliens are found in the Rebel Alliance / Luke's posse throughout the movies, compared to how many aliens make a show in the crew of the Empire? The ONLY aliens that appear in the Empire's employ throughout the movies are the bounty hunters they pull to find Han, who are only mercs and not actually employed in the Empire like the Bounty Hunters are in SWTOR.

 

This could be construed (logically) three ways. A: The Empire doesn't like aliens. B: There were no aliens for the Empire to recruit (Which we can eliminate because it's Star Wars), or C: Lucas et al did not have the costumes / money / what have you to put aliens in the Empire's cast of characters as well. Which I find unlikely, but also slightly downing, so I"m going to rule that one out too.

 

Let's look at just Star Wars for a moment. Other than Chewbacca, who did the Rebs hang out that were alien? Nobody in that hangar on Yavin was an non-human. Lucas used the cantina scene to illicit the idea that this was a large galaxy. It worked, people geniunely wanted to know who all these aliens were, but none of them did anything beyond moving a few limbs, because of the special effects limitations. Lucas seemingly was trying to invoke evil by dressing the Imperial Military like the Nazis. It wasn't a deliberate attempt to show xenophobia, it was to make them unsympathetic to the audience.

[Rikalonius]

Gotta remember, everyone expected ANH to fail miserably, including GL himself. He was only allowed to make it because he had influential friends(I wanna say Coppola) who insisted he be given the chance.

 

It was part of the deal he made with the executives who wanted to buy American Graffiti.

[jimee]

Let's look at just Star Wars for a moment. Other than Chewbacca, who did the Rebs hang out that were alien? Nobody in that hangar on Yavin was an non-human. Lucas used the cantina scene to illicit the idea that this was a large galaxy. It worked, people geniunely wanted to know who all these aliens were, but none of them did anything beyond moving a few limbs, because of the special effects limitations. Lucas seemingly was trying to invoke evil by dressing the Imperial Military like the Nazis. It wasn't a deliberate attempt to show xenophobia, it was to make them unsympathetic to the audience.

 

 

 

Most famous star wars quote of all time: "It's a trap!" (Admiral Akbar, Alien)

[Graysider]

I see it, the whole Human/Imperial thing in a couple different ways.

 

I don't have extensive knowledge of the novels, comics, commentaries from Lucas and what-not that some of have quoted (so please bear with me if I get anything VASTLY incorrect), but I have a thought about the subject.

 

Granted, upon consideration, the Imperials were all portrayed similar to Nazi's to make them less sympathetic to the audience. Make them clear cut "Bad-guys". I also think the accents they have (a hint of upper-class 'snob' for lack of a better description), assisted with that. They were made them seem 'Above' and 'Better' than everyone else (not just aliens).

 

Also granted that a mostly human Imperial fleet was just plain easier to do special effects wise, back then. (CG added aliens would likely be too difficult to place as well)

 

Theorizing on the Lore (gathered from personal observations, from movies, shows, TOR itself and previous posts), my opinion boils down to maybe 3 main points:

 

1) The Empire always view Force-users (of any race) as better than the rest. But they will rank them like someone stated. (sith and humans being at the top, other Force wielding races placed lower) If they aren't shown in public like Vader or Palpatine, then they'll likely be put to work as Assassins and operatives. (ie. The Emperor's Hand) All Non-force users are at the bottom of the heirarchy; "they have their uses" etc.

 

2) Sith Purebloods and Humans were the founders of the Empire and since I'm not sure if the Sith Purebloods are even around by Vader's time (I could be wrong) then Humans would have a bigger 'claim' to it history wise.

 

3) Mainly, I think it's a combination of a Sith Force-user's drive to have more power, and the fact that (according to the basic info in TOR) Humans are the most populace race in the galaxy. As in they are EVERYWHERE! So if the Empire wanted to rule the galaxy, one of the best ways to do that would be to control the largest population of people in it.

 

I may be over simplifying it, but think about it. You want to control a country, planet, the whole galaxy, whatever. If you were to control a large portion, if not all, of the largest population in that location, tell them they're better than everyone else, blah blah blah then you'd have a vast following, and control lots of territory and resources.

 

The Nazi's did similar with their whole "blond hair and blue eyes" thing to rally citizens to their side. There were even studies done years ago in the States, where kids in Grade School were told that blue-eyed people were smarter than brown-eyed people and vice-versa and the kids' grades improved of declined by how they viewed themselves.

 

Well I think I've said enough....way more than I intended even. I hope I didn't offend anybody accidentially (totally not my intention) or gotten any Star Wars factoids completely wrong.

 

Bye then.

 

P.S. Is there any speculation on other possible playable races coming to TOR in the future? Just Curious.

[Darthmoriquendi]

strangely enough I have come across quite a few chiss, twilek and zabrakk officers in my warrior quest line.

[Sanguinal]

That spoiler is an over generalization.

 

 

Around the year 6,900 BBY, exiled fallen Jedi—fleeing from the Battle of Corbos, which concluded the Hundred-Year Darkness—landed on Korriban, a desolate world inhabited by the relatively primitive but unusually Force-sensitive Sith people.[4] Upon arriving, the Dark Jedi attempted to subjugate the Sith and take whatever knowledge they possessed. This led to the Sith attempting to protect their secrets but failed due to the superior training and technology of the invaders.[8] Using their training in the Force, the fallen Jedi amazed the Sith, and elevated themselves to god-like status on Korriban, becoming the rulers of the Sith people. Over the next two thousand years, interbreeding occurred between the Fallen Jedi and the Sith by means of Sith alchemy which led to the term "Sith" being used to identify not only the original inhabitants of Korriban, but also their fallen Jedi masters.[4] This intermingling between the two races went across hundreds of generations that was made between the Dark Jedi and the High Priests which led to the creation of hybridized offspring from this union who became the new ruling class of the Sith.[8] Thus was the Sith Empire born, with nearby Ziost becoming the capital, while Korriban became a sacred mausoleum-world. One of the first Sith Lords of this new empire was Ajunta Pall.

 

 

Source : http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Empire

 

The Sith weren't primitive technologically, they had a stellar Empire 20,000 years earlier when they forced the Rakata to retreat from their space. They were weaker in raw Dark Side power than the Jedi exiles however, which is how they became worshipped.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_%28species%29

 

A lot of the comments about the "primitive and barbaric" Sith seem to be people's own interpretation of their culture including blood rites and not recognising the concept of peace or war rather than a description of the technological prowess.

[Rikalonius]

Most famous star wars quote of all time: "It's a trap!" (Admiral Akbar, Alien)

 

Yup, in the third movie you had a sullustran, as we know them now, and a Mon Calamari Admiral, but in the previous two movies, it was only humans sans Chewbacca. Did you see any rebel aliens on Hoth? Maybe they just had the good sense no to go there.

[DarkestDaemon]

Yup, in the third movie you had a sullustran, as we know them now, and a Mon Calamari Admiral, but in the previous two movies, it was only humans sans Chewbacca. Did you see any rebel aliens on Hoth? Maybe they just had the good sense no to go there.

 

I think there were a few other Mon Calamari besides just Admiral Ackbar, I could be wrong however.

 

But the question is raised, he used alien costumes in the Cantina scene. Why not just reuse a lot of the alien costumes and then add on some Imperial flair for the other episodes? He might just not have thought about it, but the idea that the Imperials are for human supremacy (which wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination since the Republic had a moment of similar thought) makes some sense.

 

It's an empire, in an empire there are always one type of people ruling over others. If the empire was started by a human, then more than likely humanity would be the dominating factor of the entire structure. That the aliens would "have their uses" but otherwise be looked down upon. Think about it in a similar context to ancient Rome.

 

The true Romans probably had a bit of a superiority complex when treating with those brought into their empire, the Germans and French etc. the auxiliaries that were formed were also probably not looked upon as favorably by the Legions, when you think about it. Granted, I believe auxiliary forces were allowed to advance in the ranks.

 

And the above is shown in the EU in Admiral Thrawn. He was an alien who advanced in the Imperial ranks... but I think he was the only one of any note. So it's probably that Imperials prefer humans, but will grudgingly recognize the merit of non-human officers.

[Weezyfb]

isolation for a thousand years, only aliens they have seen are those that drove them off korriban or those that they conquered

[Dryle]

It may not have been specifically stated in the movies but the Xenophobic attitude of the Empire, specifically Palpatines Empire, is stated numerous times in the EU novels.

 

These novels form part of what Lucas calls C-canon or Continuity Canon, which, as long as it does not contradict anything stated by George Lucas, is considered Star Wars Canon. A number of things that have appeared in novels have gone on to appear in the prequel movies.

 

In the original movies, specifically ANH, they were limited by budget and thus could not show a lot of aliens outside of the Cantina sequence. This can be explained in the idea that most Alien worlds did not join the Rebel Alliance until after the Battle of Yavin. More Aliens then appear in ROTJ, specifically Bothans, Mon Calamari, Sullustans etc.

[Kashaan]

A) The Sith species was nearly wiped to extinction during the first war.

 

B) Humans are the most populace species in the galaxy.

 

C) The Empire enslaves many of the people it conquers.

 

 

Just the fact that the Sith species became nearly extinct is enough explanation why the Empire is mostly human. Not to mention that those in power in the Empire are MASSIVE xenophobics who generally hate all non-human species.

[Atnas]

I must say Star Wars diehard fans always take it a bit too far!

[Darth_Curious]

The imperials are "space nazis", the Sith race is the analogy to the old prussian aristocracy. Everybody else are sub-species, although that doesn't necessarily preclude working with them, much like the nazis had made deals with both arab and african nations during WWII even though they considered them "lesser".

That's why the empire is mostly humans, because both the secular empire and the "religious" sith believe anyone other than humans and Sith to be inferior races.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Darth_Curious

[Zekkau]

What I don't think many people understand, is that the Expanded Universe is in the canon. KOTOR, KOTOR II and SWTOR are all part of the Expanded Universe. Therefore, it will inevitably borrow from the Expanded Universe.

 

While there are practical reasons for the Galactic Empire not having alien species in the movies, the fact is that now an explanation has been given within the storyline and within the canon.

 

The explanation, is the Galactic Empire, and the Emperor himself were xenophobic and hated aliens, further cementing the comparison with Nazi Germany.

 

Bioware, wishing to connect with both the movies and the rest of the Expanded Universe, have therefore styled the Sith Empire after the Galactic Empire. Look at some of the military uniforms, the accents of the characters and the fact that there are virtually no aliens.

 

The Sith Empire has been styled after the Galactic Empire of the movies. More than that, they've connected to elements of the Galactic Empire that are also in the Expanded Universe, and not just the movies.

 

Galactic Empire:

-Mainly comprised of humans, probably due to budget constraints, but explained later in canon to be because of xenophobia.

-Military uniforms very bland, formal and kind of similar to Nazi Germany. Colors restricted to black, grey or white (encouraging the idea of oppression).

-Accents/Actors are mostly British and have British accents. In the movies this was probably due to just casting, but its still there and used in contrast to more "American" Rebels.

 

Sith Empire:

-Mainly comprised of humans except for a few other humanoid species and enslaved species. This is because the Sith Empire is xenophobic.

-Military uniforms also somewhat bland and formal, similar to the Galactic Empire and Nazi Germany. Some uniforms, especially Sith Robes are a bit more flashy.

-Accents/Actors are mostly British with British accents, this stands in strong contrast to those of the Republic, who mostly have American accents. Similar to the Galactic Empire vs. Rebel Alliance in the movies.

 

So the reason you don't have many non-humans in the Sith Empire, is because they are xenophobic. It doesn't matter if this was never said in the movies for the Galactic Empire. This is the Expanded Universe, and therefore, because EU Canon says the Galactic Empire was xenophobic, it was so. The Sith Empire has been modeled after the Galactic Empire, and so the explanation is clear, both were xenophobic.

[atlasstar]

Play SI story you get a quick feel for way sith empire is and basically boils down to, the Sith race being Superior to others, and yes much how nazi's viewed blonde haired and blue eyed people. Difference being that the sith just believe those people should be slaves, or tools of the empire, also goes a bit further then that as well. For example if i'm an alien but have strong force sensitivity and pass trials on korriban, this elevates me above any non-force user, though in truth is a new law and are alot of sith that don't like this.

 

Basically is a hierarchy...

 

Sith Pure Blood

Sith(human with sith blood)

Force Sensitive pass korriban trials

Non-force user

 

As long as you can use force you are treated above everyone else, but being a true sith or human with force abilities tends to be norm. Aliens are supposedly rare but most of trainers we see in game are actually twi'lek...which feels odd =P anyway! thats way i understood it anyway.

Sith (humans who can trace their family down to the old sith empire are on the same standing of sith pure bloods. fun fact in the time of nagga sadow having more sith pure blood traits and less human traits was frowned on.The more human you appear was meant the stronger connection of blood you had to the original dark Jedi that arrived on koriban and thus were more pure. )

[Darth_Curious]

What I don't think many people understand, is that the Expanded Universe is in the canon. KOTOR, KOTOR II and SWTOR are all part of the Expanded Universe. Therefore, it will inevitably borrow from the Expanded Universe.

 

While there are practical reasons for the Galactic Empire not having alien species in the movies, the fact is that now an explanation has been given within the storyline and within the canon.

 

The explanation, is the Galactic Empire, and the Emperor himself were xenophobic and hated aliens, further cementing the comparison with Nazi Germany.

 

Bioware, wishing to connect with both the movies and the rest of the Expanded Universe, have therefore styled the Sith Empire after the Galactic Empire. Look at some of the military uniforms, the accents of the characters and the fact that there are virtually no aliens.

 

The Sith Empire has been styled after the Galactic Empire of the movies. More than that, they've connected to elements of the Galactic Empire that are also in the Expanded Universe, and not just the movies.

 

Galactic Empire:

-Mainly comprised of humans, probably due to budget constraints, but explained later in canon to be because of xenophobia.

-Military uniforms very bland, formal and kind of similar to Nazi Germany. Colors restricted to black, grey or white (encouraging the idea of oppression).

-Accents/Actors are mostly British and have British accents. In the movies this was probably due to just casting, but its still there and used in contrast to more "American" Rebels.

 

Sith Empire:

-Mainly comprised of humans except for a few other humanoid species and enslaved species. This is because the Sith Empire is xenophobic.

-Military uniforms also somewhat bland and formal, similar to the Galactic Empire and Nazi Germany. Some uniforms, especially Sith Robes are a bit more flashy.

-Accents/Actors are mostly British with British accents, this stands in strong contrast to those of the Republic, who mostly have American accents. Similar to the Galactic Empire vs. Rebel Alliance in the movies.

 

So the reason you don't have many non-humans in the Sith Empire, is because they are xenophobic. It doesn't matter if this was never said in the movies for the Galactic Empire. This is the Expanded Universe, and therefore, because EU Canon says the Galactic Empire was xenophobic, it was so. The Sith Empire has been modeled after the Galactic Empire, and so the explanation is clear, both were xenophobic.

 

You could also easily draw a correlation between the slightly more flashy elite Gestapo and the flashy elite Sith Warriors and Inquisitors. There's a more than passing resemblance between the Gestapo secret police and the inquisition of old too.

[ForlornHope]

"He who suffers the alien to live, shares in the sin of its existence." Edited January 12, 2012 by ForlornHope

[VanorDM]

"he who suffers the alien to live, shares in the sin of its existence."

 

wh40k?

[Maximivs]

Also remember the ones that are playing the republic is playing the faction that later turns into the eempire we KNOW ,the o0ne in this wannabe logo aside is extinct when the movies rolls around

[Idunhavaname]

I never understood this either sith a great deal of sith are non-humans. I really hate how BioWare copied Galactic Empire for Sith Empire.

[Melisunde]

This might be a question better relegated to the RP forum but, since it goes along with the way the discussion has evolved, why would any non-human want to be an Imperial Agent?

 

I can understand a Sith Sorcerer/Warrior (even if you're not human you can still be powerful, being a force user launches you up the food chain) or Bounty Hunter (you're a mercenary and go where the pay is) but I don't see why you would want to work for the system that is actively oppressing you and, at least according to some Republic quests,

trying to go all genocidal on certain species.

 

 

I played a Chiss IA in beta and, even as the one species that was able to negotiate with the Empire to essentially leave them alone, NPC's regularly had some snooty anti-alien comment to make. I've done some Googling to no avail... any ideas? (And if it's something as simple as "the game couldn't have just one race for the class" that's perfectly acceptable too.)

[Sanguinal]

This might be a question better relegated to the RP forum but, since it goes along with the way the discussion has evolved, why would any non-human want to be an Imperial Agent?

 

I can understand a Sith Sorcerer/Warrior (even if you're not human you can still be powerful, being a force user launches you up the food chain) or Bounty Hunter (you're a mercenary and go where the pay is) but I don't see why you would want to work for the system that is actively oppressing you and, at least according to some Republic quests,

trying to go all genocidal on certain species.

 

 

I played a Chiss IA in beta and, even as the one species that was able to negotiate with the Empire to essentially leave them alone, NPC's regularly had some snooty anti-alien comment to make. I've done some Googling to no avail... any ideas? (And if it's something as simple as "the game couldn't have just one race for the class" that's perfectly acceptable too.)

 

It's better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven is the gist of it. Imperial Agents are the very elite of non-force users in the Empire, an Agent outranks everyone that's not a Sith, whether they're human or not.

 

The Sith are a strangely meritocratic society. If you're powerful, cunning, ambitious, ruthless enough to rise above the herd then you rise, whether you're a slave or an alien. You may get insulted and slighted on the way, but if you care what mouthy vermin say about you you're not tough enough to make it anyway.

[Krusedullfaen]

It's better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven is the gist of it. Imperial Agents are the very elite of non-force users in the Empire, an Agent outranks everyone that's not a Sith, whether they're human or not.

 

The Sith are a strangely meritocratic society. If you're powerful, cunning, ambitious, ruthless enough to rise above the herd then you rise, whether you're a slave or an alien. You may get insulted and slighted on the way, but if you care what mouthy vermin say about you you're not tough enough to make it anyway.

 

This sums it up nicely really.

 

My Chiss Agent is usually someone who does everything as instructed, never risking compromising the mission. As a result, he is cold, calculating and ruthless when he has to be. Racism though is something that has become complicated for him.

 

This isn't really a spoiler, but at one point one of your handlers say "See, this is why having aliens on staff isn't such a bad thing" referring to a Duros translating an alien language. My Agent's reply to that was "I like to think we're more than our language skills..." Basically, he is dutifull and respects the chain of command, but he's not a complete drone either, he won't stand for racism directed towards him without some sort of comeback, and that includes Sith, though only if he is confident the Sith won't notice his veiled insult or compliment filled with mocking contempt.

 

On the other hand, on Tattooine, which I just got to. My agent has not been very friendly to the Jawa he's had to deal with, seeing them as no more than filthy scavenging animals. Obviously this is just as racist as someone insulting him for being Chiss, but that seems not to occur to him. This I think makes for a conflicted and at times hypocritical character and in the end that's something I feel gives him more depth.

[OddballEasyEight]

Really? Not once in the movies does it say that Imperials xenophobic of aliens. Not once. It was assumed by EU writers, because Lucas invoked the Nazis (who always make good bad guys) in the Imperial uniforms. Not because he was saying they were, but because it made them look more threatening.

 

Neither the Republic or the Separatists were lacking in non-human representation. The only reason BioWare does it, is because they are going out of their way to invoke the Empire of the OT, which I think was a mistake. So suddenly the xenophobia that was never spelled out is now assumed to be canon.

 

 

Umm... Neither the Republic or the Separatists were sith...

 

the Empire (in the original trilogy) were built on sith ideals tho, and they were woefully underrepresented in the aliens department

In all honesty, not a single one alien is seen as an officer (or even soldier) in the empires service.

Sure, they hired some outside scum that were aliens (bountyhunters and informants/spies) but they were never "part" of the empire.

[OddballEasyEight]

This might be a question better relegated to the RP forum but, since it goes along with the way the discussion has evolved, why would any non-human want to be an Imperial Agent?

 

I can understand a Sith Sorcerer/Warrior (even if you're not human you can still be powerful, being a force user launches you up the food chain) or Bounty Hunter (you're a mercenary and go where the pay is) but I don't see why you would want to work for the system that is actively oppressing you and, at least according to some Republic quests,

trying to go all genocidal on certain species.

 

 

I played a Chiss IA in beta and, even as the one species that was able to negotiate with the Empire to essentially leave them alone, NPC's regularly had some snooty anti-alien comment to make. I've done some Googling to no avail... any ideas? (And if it's something as simple as "the game couldn't have just one race for the class" that's perfectly acceptable too.)

 

Well there were russians fighting for the nazis during world war 2, and they knew full well that the nazis were exterminating their people on ideological principles.