They do it anyway, dude. People who PvP don't do it for the gear - they do it because they like to play against potentially better players. This is why FPS games like CoD and BF are so popular and whose players continue to play the same maps day in and day out. The gear doesn't matter beyond the cosmetics - the unlocks of the more modern games are just bonus tools that you can switch in and out. They don't let you automatically win, since a superior player could trump the gear all day long. Gear does not matter in PvP. It doesn't have to exist. ADDITION:: I would also like to add here that the gear itself is not necessarily the problem. The problem is Expertise adding bonuses to something that is already superior. The whole "stat race in gear" is one thing that makes you as a lvl 50 more powerful than a lvl 10. This, to me, in an RPG is something to be expected. The good thing is, that BW implemented a very productive recipe that made this balanced - all players are the same statistically, yet higher level players have more abilities at their disposal. This is exactly the same difference produced in modern FPS games - the people at higher levels can carry flashbangs AND grenades instead of just one. Expertise throws that completely out of balance. It does not need to exist and completely undermines the point to PvP.

I've noticed this too, even in PvP. I hit them, and suddenly I can't use Back Blast - so I have to reposition? The problem is even worse than that, though. There was a bug even before 1.1.1 where they would warp about 5m in front of you. THAT is still going on, too. If they're just going to break an already broken ability - why don't they just remove it and put something else in instead?

This patch is total garbage. BW killed any reason whatsoever for someone to want to waste their SP on Flechette Round and KO. It's simply not worth it. And to me... I think that hurts the game as a whole. I guess the only plus side to this is that I see a lot more of the BS the other classes get away with. I suspect these classes won't be nerfed, though.... It's sad... I've actually lost my desire to play this game a little. It's not that I got nerfed - it's that the nerf did absolutely nothing constructive but break my class.

Nope. Nice try, though.

It actually does. I'm not entirely certain how much you have to have, but it does reduce GCD by a very miniscule amount - about .2s at the very most. However, it could be a bug. Either way, you will never notice the difference in any capacity.

No - this nerf broke this Tree. It doesn't need to be said any simpler than that. Anyone who suggests that they can 1v3 with Scrap/Op now, is either lying, or they are playing against 3 really bad players and who all have a major Gear/Valor/Level disadvantage - and even then, I still say they are lying. 1v1 - the other player doesn't even have to try. On the off-chance that they have Gear... the Gear alone will do the work. Anyone who suggests that reducing our KO is "giving us more control" or suggests that it works out better for us - is completely delusional - and they don't understand how Resolve works. It doesn't help us... in any fashion... whatsoever. It does nothing but make us use 2 Stuns to give them 18s Stun Immunity (which is what KO used to do alone) and allow them to effectively shrug us off, since the 1.5s KO is doing nothing. They miss out on 1 GCD. THAT'S ALL - ONE GCD! They escape out of the other. And even if they don't use an Escape - it doesn't matter. We won't kill them in time. We simply will not kill them. If by any means, they get a heal - they will win that fight. If they have any sort of Knock Back - they will win that fight. If they have any sort of a Stun - they will win that fight. If they have any kind of ability to leave the fight - they win by default, since they didn't die. Don't even get me started on the AP reduction.... We HAVE to have another player to win, now. This is not balance. I wrote out a perfectly good explanation in detail what made this Nerf wrong, and I have a perfectly viable solution. This nerf just broke this class the other way. Now, guess what? Exactly what I said was going to happen - is happening.... Everyone is crying for a nerf to Sorc/Sage now. Why? Because Bioware broke the class that was responsible for keeping their BS in check - US! I swear... no one listens to anything!

I am very disappointed. Scoundrel now plays out pretty much exactly like I explained it would. We can't stun; we can't kill; we can't survive. This is beyond ridiculous.

Yes, you CAN learn to focus with discipline. But there are plenty of people who don't care to. I'm not the one making excuses - they are.

If I was conflicted with bias - I wouldn't have bothered offering a different nerf solution. I would have left it with that. The bigger problem is the Expertise, the Gear, the Relics, and Biochem. If they really wanted to crack down on game balance, they would have solved those first, tested them, and then moved on to individual Classes. They skipped all of that and went directly into Class Nerfs. That argument (while 100% true, and everyone knows it) doesn't change the fact that we are getting nerfed. I'm fine with a nerf. What I'm not fine with, is breaking stuff that has nothing to do with the problem. My proposition is still a substantial nerf. It still "breaks the Class." What it doesn't do, is break a million other things that have nothing to do with the problem. Thanks for the comments. EDIT:: Also, I didn't ignore your question. I just gave you an answer that you didn't like. Sorry. Thanks for the comments.

It would be fair to say that I have provided you with facts that show why 1.1.1 is not correct. EDIT:: But in the spirit of good fun, answer this question for me please: How exactly do you expect to kill me if you reduce my 3s Stun to 1.5s? If it takes me roughly 4-6 GCD's to do everything I need to do to kill you, and it takes you more, by virtue of the fact that we are "killing faster than intended" - how does reducing a 3s Stun fix this problem? Sincerely - I'm interested in your answer.

By the way, this is either a lie, or you clearly do not understand anything. 1. You can't have the proper build you need to experience this Tree until lvl 40 at a minimum. You get Skill Points at 10, 1 per level. It takes 31 Skill Points to even get Flechette Round. That's level 40. You have no concept of how these skills work, and why they are important. Here's a thread that will help you understand why these Skills are important: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=227273 2. Scrapper/Concealment is not a ranged class. It's a melee class. 3. If you were "owning people at range" that were level 40's at an early level... you were probably playing Dirty Fighting. That is an entirely separate Tree than Scrapper/Concealment. This thread does not address Dirty Fighting, because it was not nerfed, and has nothing to do with 1.1.1. Here's a thread that explains what 1.1.1 had to do with: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=227273 Thanks for your comments.

Here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=227273 All the questions you asked are answered in that link. You should read it. It explains everything you need to know about why 1.1.1 is wrong for Scrapper/Concealment. If the answers you're looking for aren't there - then you should read it again, because they are there. If you still can't find them - then you aren't reading it. If you continue to proclaim that you have read it, and you still can't find them - then you should try this thread instead: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=227273 The answers you want are DEFINITELY in that one. If all else fails, you could just try to come to the conclusion that you might have a biased opinion on this issue, and are ignoring facts that compromise your opinion. It's okay, lots of people suffer from this. Here's a thread that can help: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=227273

Great! I'm glad I found you. There is a line already forming for people who think just like you. It starts here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=227273

I think, and I'm not sure, that you are correct on the diminishing returns notion. If Armor Value has a max of 75%, then it would seem logical that the other systems in the game have a similar Max Threshold to consider. It might just be that reducing the Critical Damage is the wrong way to do this. Maybe the other classes DO need a buff. I'd be willing to settle for that. I'd rather them OP another class than break any of them. I can't be sure, and the only people with the proper equipment to test this is Bioware. All I know is, 1.1.1 is fubar for Scrapper/Concealment. And if nerfs are coming our way, I'd rather have something like my proposal than what we are being given. 1.1.1 just doesn't make any sense, any way you cut it. It just doesn't. Good post.

Mynock rescues Tyren - that was classic! Made me laugh. Keep it up - don't stop!

Ehhh... I agree with THIS... but not entirely. Some suggestions are not as blatantly obvious as this as to whether or not they are good suggestions. Other suggestions require some higher thinking - which the community is not always 100% on the same page as others are. As for the email - yes, please. +1

He'd still have to purchase from the GTN to do that. The only solution I could think of is to add a lvl 30 tier. The only problem I have with that, however, is by the time you hit 40, you probably won't have the Comms you need for that level. Then again... you might... Either way, he brings up a valid point.

I know a person who society has given an excuse to be rambunctious and disorderly by giving him a faulty diagnosis of having ADHD, which results in him enjoying and abusing the power to blame his own inability to settle down and properly absorb the world and activity around him on everything else being "too slow" and "boring" and "hard to understand." I know of millions upon millions more just like him/her. These people are the future of mankind, by the way. I'm going to have to grow old in that society. I'm not even 30 and I already seriously consider smashing some people in the face from time to time lol.

I know what you mean, man. My heart literally sank when I read the Patch Notes. It's not the fact that we were getting nerfed. Nerfs happen - I can live with them. What got me was the fact that the nerf was giving into EXACTLY what the community complained about, and it didn't even bother to look into the issue deeper to see what was actually causing the problems. I immediately had flashbacks of SWG all over again. I cannot allow the devs to start making ridiculous mistakes like this without trying to get them to reason. They are smarter than this. On top of that, what gets me even more is how shallow this community has mostly been toward this write up. If you die too fast in 3s... then the objective is to reduce the speed in which we kill. Taking away a Stun isn't going to stop us from achieving the 4-5 GCD's we need to destroy you. Once the first two attacks are off, there is nothing you can do to stop us. If they reduce a 3s Stun for a reason like this, then they are deducing that ALL Stuns are creating the same problems. Clearly, they aren't. I just don't understand this. That's all I can say. I can't help that I am bothered by how little thought went into this nerf and by how little thought went into the complaints.

Sorry for responding late: I've been busy as well... I wouldn't really call what I wrote, criticism. I'd say it was just different stuff you might not have thought about. It looks great, anyway! So, don't take what I said as "this sucks and here's how to make it not suck." As for the "dead space" thing, I don't think I meant exactly what I said. I meant negative space between the character focus and the background - it's clear that they portray different style-architectures. That's why I asked if you painted it or if it was a screenshot. It doesn't matter either way, I just wanted to find out before I comment on it in more detail. Because the character is photo-realistic (because it is a photo ) it makes the styling of the BG a lot more appearantly NOT photo-realistic. It's a clear difference is all I meant, and the relationship between the two creates "dead space". "Negative Space" would have been a more appropriate term, though, now that I think about it. You can relax that a little by adding some blur to the BG. Not a lot, but enough to give it a depth-of-field photographic quality. After looking through your deviant-art, I see you do a lot of photography (which you seem to be very strong in), so I'm sure you know what I am talking about. This way, the photo-realistic character will look like a an actual photograph, instead of a photo-shopped image on top of a stylized painting. Still, keep in mind that the character itself looks great! It's the relationship between the character and the BG that I am referring to here. Also, I might suggest to ease the color saturation on the BG just a little (specifically the red.) The vibrant red in the BG is competing with the deep red on the character, and there is just a lot of activity going on. You don't really want that to happen. You want it to compliment the focus. I'm not certain that this is even necessary... but it's something to consider if you feel like messing around with this piece again. Lastly, give it some atmospheric fog to create an even better sense of depth. This will help create the illusion a little better. Focus in the dark areas where the light might be shining, but has nothing to reflect onto, so you don't see it. This will require some photography/video studying on how light reflects off of air particles to pull it off successfully, though. Anyway, it could be fun All of these things are minor, but they can go a long way to giving you a stronger image. Well done, either way! I expect to see some more from you. Nice deviant-art by the way! I enjoy your photographs the most, I think.

Ehhh... yes and no. Nerfing the Armor Penetratrion WILL (realistically) only affect us toward Tanks. With Classes that wear Medium and Light Amor, reducing the AP will not have as dramatic an affect. However, that's part of the problem - THESE are the classes we are most often killing so quickly. How do I know this? 1. Because there are simply more OF them TO kill - specifically Sorcs/Sages. 2. Because the issue will Tanks is not in our ability to produce damage, but in their inability to gear themselves properly. Let's look at this a little closer: When I say [gear] I don't necessarily mean [Gear]. [Gear] is talking about Champion/Battlemaster sets that apply Expertise. This is altogether a completely different issue. When I say [gear] I am speaking about any assortment of equipment that the Tank may be wearing that may or may not have an applied Expertise Bonus. It boils down to Shield Rating. All Tanks have the ability to use a Shield. All of them. If they are using a Shield Generator which gives them bonuses to Shield Rating, and they are geared with Absorption and Shield Rating bonuses... they can and do effectively defend against the onslaught of the Scrapper/Concealment. If they are not using a Shield Generator, then they are not protected against our Burst Rotation. They HAVE to have the Shield Generator, or their Absorption and Shield Rating aren't even a factor. They HAVE to stack these bonuses, or their Shield Generator simply won't defend against our Crit Rating and our Critical Damage enough to not be slain. Now, in the event that the Tank is geared properly... we probably aren't going to kill them unless we have an assortment of tactical advantages. This sort of scenario does actually happen a lot. In which case, our Base Damage must be present. Since their Heavy Armor reduces our Base Damage by a large margin - we must have the Armor Penetration. You have to understand, if our Base Damage is 50, then it's going to be mitigated no matter what. Armor Penetration helps reduce the effectiveness of the Armor.... for only 15s - which is a unit of time, which means it is part of our Burst Rotation. Outside of the Burst Rotation.... we are literally screwed. Sorcers/Sages also have "bubbles" that sort of function like Shields. But they only last a certain amount of time, and they absorb ALL damage, and they dissipate after a certain amount of damage has been dealt. If a Scrapper/Concealment catches a Sorc/Sage without their bubble... these guys are toast. This happens all the time. So, because they wear Light Armor, and because they have a relatively unreliable Shield System.... the Armor Penetration is completely wasted on them. We don't have Armor Penetration for them - that's for the Tanks. We have the 3s Stun for the Medium/Light Armor guys. I've already spoken in the AP why we have the 3s stun, and why you cannot get rid of it. So yes - while reducing our AP WILL only realistically affect our utility vs a Tank, it does NOT address the bigger picture; which is why they nerfed the Stun. However, this is creating more problems than it is fixing. All of the problems that this nerf would create could be avoided, while simultaneously fixing the balance issues, by simply nerfing our Critical Damage ouput from Underdog.

Can you blame them, really? I mean... you are pretty awesome, after all...

Updated with a TL;DR version for your viewing pleasure.

Updated with a TL;DR version for your viewing pleasure.

My solution is easier and better than Bioware's AND yours. But nevermind that. Here's a question for you: How exactly does reducing our Critical Damage NOT result in slower kills? I'd love for someone to answer this question for me.