If PVP depends on CONSTANT application of CC without limit then it's PVP itself that's broken. The bottom line: Being constantly stuck in one spot, unable to move and unable to use abilities IS NOT FUN. Sure, CC has it's place. But as PVP works now it's an "Iwin" button.

Resolve does nothing that I have seen. It certainly has no effect on being frozen in place, forced to writhe on the ground, and being pushed/pulled around like a pinball.

Yes, I believe this update will be a failure. At least from the dedicated PVP'er point of view. They are adding... ONE warzone which is a reskinned Alderran. They are making Champion gear, which most of us have earned useless. And they are removing Ilum from PVP.

I've been told that less than 500K healing delivered as a Sage isn't good enough. I average over 250K and that's from healing every second I'm not being rooted, stunned, forced to writhe on the ground and killed. In other words, I try to achieve OBJECTIVES not medals. I've experimented, and the only way to hit 500K is to either: NEVER GET KILLED (hard as a sage) or slit your wrists constantly and heal yourself... Which is of no value to the team. You always run into elitist jerks in warzones, one reason why I can't stand doing them.

They are really showing inexperience. Bioware post launch has been like watching amateur hour. Seriously, they are showing SOE like incompetence vis a vie SWG...

Bioware's PVP developers/designers have no clue whatsoever. Seriously, none. What they are doing to the PVP systems in this game is double down on failure. So far they have REMOVED more than they've added. You could pick a dozen people out of a homeless shelter and they couldn't do any worse of a job than these jokers. Some Dev probably saw invalidating Champion gear as a "great idea" to get us grinding on the ever diminishing path to PVP gear (no more Ilum) to replace our existing gear. Purple champion gear will now be WORSE than blue buy off the vendor stuff! And once again (because it's uncustomizable) we'll be fighting the "Clone Wars" with all of us in PVP gear that looks exactly the same.

I'm thinking of quitting PERIOD over 1.2 because of the overall NERF to PVP, in that it's warzones AND ONLY WARZONES for progression. Unacceptable.

In SWG all you had to do to get PVP, especially on a server like Bloodfin (and I am talking pre NGE) was show up in Theed overt. Gimps OWN Theed, so they thought. They'd show up... Also, in SWG, to get Jedi meant a meaningful, time gated grind. And after getting it had SEVERE death penalties. But it was the PVP profession and the game's endgame.. I hate the idea of being on a gear grind treadmill for an endgame, which all themepark games have. Even accepting that, I hate being pigeonholed into stupid warzones where I can't even bring a full group of guildmates (that makes the lazy cry about premades, a term I didn't even know before this game) who will ACTUALLY TRY TO FIGHT FOR A WIN AND OBJECTIVES rather than try to LOSE quickly...

To answer the OP's question, I think it has to do with the current "conventional wisdom" mentality amongst MMO developers: Open world PVP is a SANDBOX mechanic. It means messy. It means unpredictable. It means things MIGHT NOT HAPPEN AS SCRIPTED. Basically the themepark MMO (which SWTOR is one) is designed around the idea that players can't be trusted to play the game "correctly" and thus must be led down a carefully controlled path. Their elimination of Ilum and shift to warzones exclusively for meaningful PVP (ie that raises your valor levels) is but a product of that mentality that we can't be allowed to do things on our own and must be "led" by moving it all into the confines of little rooms. Fighting it out on Ilum is MUCH preferable, as broken and poorly conceived as it was, to doing 10 warzones a night most of them being told "quit trying to win it's better to lose quickly". That may be so (and will continue to be so, as long as warzones are the only way to go, even if they nerf "rewards" to losers) but it's a sorry a-- game design. I want to fight over planets. I want to fight over space. I want Gimps invading Carrack Station. I want to invade THEIRS. THAT is pvp. That is a galactic war. Fighting in carefully controlled little rooms, one of them as idiotic and NOT war fighting as Huttball is a minigame. A poorly conceived and executed minigame.

I guess this thread is dead. 60+ pages and not ANY attention from the Dev who solicited it. Reading over some of the ideas in here I'm led to conclude that the players here have more and far better ideas than the developers. Just like in SWG. If PVP is going to be left like it is in little rooms in these warzones then it's not PVP. Close down this forum. See my sig for my current opinion regarding the competency of the Devs. My favorite quote to come from the storyline in this game.

I like this...

I agree with this. I see cheating all the time in warzones when this happens because I'll see the same guild on both sides. Sucks to be grouped with the bunch tasked with "throwing" the warzone. I've been in Huttball like this when the "throw it" side will pick up the ball then run into the acid. I HATE losing on purpose.

That's why I said PVP server. If you are on a PVP server, you should expect PVP to be a factor in everything. If you don't, the PVE servers are ---------> over there.

My biggest gripe about 1.2 is that Ilum is being taken OUT without any replacement. Why? Leave it as it was UNTIL it's replaced. All too many times I've seen MMO publishers take something out, promising to bring it back "fixed", and years later, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. I HATE warzones. Warzones are NOT pvp. I want to fight on a planet. Not on a holodeck.

I wouldn't mind losing the AOE skill completely so I could pick up more DPS anyway.

As a Sage I never exit combat in any PVP situation because I am the one healing..

Wow! What an absolutely HORRIBLE change. This screws anyone in solo PVE who isn't a healer class. Just goes to show that MMO developers just have to do things that pisses players off. Medpacks are the problem? Really? What about the OUTRAGEOUS amount of crowd control, which we keep BEGGING you do do something about?

I want a GALAXY WIDE war in which PVP controls the state on each server. On PVP servers, it should BLOCK progress on class quests.

Crowd Control needs a MAJOR PVP nerf. There are too many CC abilities and there is no timeout between times they can be applied to you. Resolve needs to PREVENT all forms of CC. CC needs a PVP immunity counter. Being stuck standing still unable to do anything is NOT fun.

GET RID OF THE EXPERTISE STAT. I will NOT tolerate TWO SEPARATE gear grinds. Unify them, make it available by both PVP and PVE Count kills for Valor everywhere.

How can you PVP in space when you aren't even allowed to steer your own ship? IE: Space Combat Pilot Captain "Drunk" Monkey, who loves to spend as little time over the target as possible and as much time flying into asteroids as possible. What would we do, fly in circles like a merry go round getting 2 seconds to shoot at each other every 5 minutes? Space PVP would require us to be able to do more than wiggle our ships a bit while someone else drives.

I can get about 60 kills without this problem. Then "NO VALOR GAINED" after an average of 5 kills unless I run into the enemy blob and die. People were telling me that this was due to me hitting a limit of so much valor gained in 3 minutes, that dying had nothing to do with this. So I went back to the Republic Fleet and turned in the daily. Went back to Ilum (was away at least 15 minutes). Got back into the fight. NO VALOR GAINED NO VALOR GAINED NO VALOR GAINED... Ran into the enemy blob and died. Next 60 kills came with no problem, then started having trouble after every ~5 kills or so. It took me about 250 kills last night to get credit for 150 for the weekly. This is utter rubbish. We already don't get valor or kill credit for someone killed too recently. This nerf is over the top bad and unnecessary.

I wonder if NO VALOR GAINED will be hitting warzones...

I get the same feeling. Remember that Bioware has never released a MULTIPLAYER game prior to this one, much less a MMO. I know the Dev team has some veteran MMO developers on it but Bioware's senior managers have absolutely no experience as an institution with multiplayer. Here's what Bioware should do: Bring in the guys experienced with the realm vs realm system in DAOC over to this team and get to work putting PVP systems like THAT into the Republic vs Empire war.

Yeah, I am sick of Ilum freezing every time one of those things changes. When you UNTRACK something, it should STAY untracked until you manually change the setting. Also, when are we going to be able to delete quests from our quest journal? I've got stuff in there that it won't let me drop, to the point that the Ilum control points when they show up puts me at the limit of quests you can have in the journal...