Sorry, but that isnt anywhere true. I give you a lovely story on Harbinger, about a new guild that came to Harbinger: There was this new premade who I shall name nameless, on Ancient Hypergate and was thinking that all they do is hold ground on mid. What happened was that the premade and 2 pugs couldnt hold more than a few seconds against PuG republic, yes PuG republic. I mean like I mean I saw the regulars who hit like a ****ton of damage destroying them, and then get farmed in mid. Meanwhile I cap the sides and try to assist but the regular players recognize me and try to take me down, meanwhile the group comes back, but instead their healer covering me, their healer decided to try and DPS down a healer... Which means I felt to POOP and the premade got stomped again. Long story short we lost 300 to 800 (republic), and I took nearly 1 million damage with a hi and a **** you from Republic. Classy. Then another WZ staight after same premade and we did Void Star, let's say we started defensive first, but they all went one side. Them and 2 pugs on one side got crushed in literally seconds, and got capped, meanwhile I was being attacked by 4 republic and holding barely with 1 other guy. I admit probably on this VoidStar Republic had their premade smashing that group of 6 players. Another long story short we didnt cap a single door and they capped all of it in about 4 minutes. I got chained stunned instead and lol'd at. THEN another WZ straight after. I was with my guilds premade ( I wasnt in it because I was just getting dailies done) and we were doing Empire vs Empire with none other than that premade. Long story short, my guild farmed them so hard that I think we finished the match in like less than 2 minutes (if that was possible). They were decently geared too with 28k health but not sure if its pve gear. My guildies enjoyed that Premade stomp that he said it was 10x easier than dealing with Republic PuG. EDIT: Now they dont Premade anymore, I see them pugging ALOT, maybe they do it at a different time, but I seem to see them in pug more than premade. Now I dont know why they dont persist, but to each their own. TLDR: Premades arent 10000% advantageous, individual skill and ability count alot more, the premade is just the extra topping. And the extra excuses that bads use when they get their butt kicked.

We need more of this song on PvP.

OMG, you might be on to something sir!

I get focus fired hard, and when I mean hard, getting 600+k damage taken is an average for a 15 minute match. This is both premade and pug. So no, I dont think focus firing is the ONLY thing that Premade do, if PuG isnt doing it, thats the FIRST problem. EDIT: Not saying I am good or elite but most matches I do know that I get focus hard. Quite annoying and people keep telling me not to get upset over it but thats another story.

So hang on so a premade casual should NOT be farming pug, but yet a premade hardcore SHOULD be farming premade casual. Wait what? So it's ok, sorta, maybe, could be for good pugs to pugstomp bad pugs too? I mean if good Republic PuGs or Empire Pugs keep queueing and beating up their bad counterparts thats ok too?

What I love about this thread is that the Puggers dont really take accountability for them to try and beat the premades. Instead they view Premades as "unfair" and thus they want them eliminated for fairer balance. This way a group doesn't destroy you, but you'll get some random chance of winning which is probably going to be low here. If a faction becomes too dominate at that point, are you folks going to ask Bioware to split up WZ further with empire-republic players vs empire-republic players? I mean when will Puggers attempt to play WZ here and not DM? Maybe if they concentrate on objectives Premades wont be such a "Unfair" situation would it?.

EDIT: For clairty. On the empire side, I was with this "Oceanic" guild premade for 3 games. And they were all terrible losses, mainly of issues and I felt that they either were not geared or experienced to do it in the first place. It felt like they didn't really know what they were doing or what not. After those losses, I took a 5 minute break and then was placed with another premade guild. And we fought the "exact" team that beaten me and the "Oceanic" guild. I had a nice win streak of about 5 before I logged off. I'm not going to name names, so don't ask, those that know me already know my frustration with them. And for Oceanic Players, I see them PvP @ 1am so yea not buying that they don't exist.

Like I said some oceanic players talk the talk and walk the walk. This server is huge, and there is an influx of players always on this server which does skew ppl who play PvP. I am talking about f2p and ppl rolling on this server. All I am saying once again is welcome, but please leave the l33t attitude on your server. You maybe awesome and that's great but play the game and go objective in WZ.

Err, If you think all Oceanic players are terrible cool story. But not everyone was doing it. Some of the Oceanic players I met were quite decent if not pretty good. They also didn't start a ruckus as well and did their thing. It was annoying yesterday at Prime time for Oceanic players that I had to deal with people like this 4 in a row (all different people from different groups) and only 1 win out of it because we were group with Ascendency and Tauntaun that decimated and shut down the entire opposite team themselves. I think their healer had nearly 1 million damage taken and they themseleves did alot of daamge They come out telling us all they came from Oceanic and how they expected the US players to step up. What irked me and pissed me off the most was these players telling people like Ascendency, Tauntaun and other guilds to step up cause they're here. Like they're better than Agapex or Soreyxoxoxo in terms of DPS.... Holy crap I was surprised how calm and poised the US players was there, but I guess they heard this **** before.

Dear Oceanic PvPers, Good that you joined us. Just don't tell us how uber you are and how you expect everyone (especially the US players) to be as uber as you. Then proceed to fail on guarding a node or heals and then quit the WZ. K thanks. Sincerely, The person that watched you oceanic players on Empire keep bragging at start and leaving early. PS. I'm also an oceanic server just never played in one for a reason.

So whats wrong going solo and seeing if you and your premade get into pvp against each other as pug. Or against the other faction as pug and try and co-ordinate? I mean there is no 4v4 matchups, and matchmaking premade vs premade isnt guaranteed as it is usually to do with the amount of premades around. Forcing premades to have their own queue will ultimately lead to more wait time which I dont want, thanks.

Sorry L-RANDLE is right, its about effort and commitment. To me 55 WZ Regular is ENDGAME, or part of it. I consider it equivalent to 55 SM Ops. Its not difficult but it shouldnt be a place where you can be half assed about it and expect roses. The idea of a WZ is to do objectives, not to go random herp derp ****. That is probably acceptable in the non 55 WZ, but for 55 Regular WZ, its the climb. Dont tell me that Puggers actually want a challenge, because the only puggers that want a challenge are the ones doing the objectives, making early calls and providing support as needed. The eventually get into premades, and into PvP guilds. You sound like one of those people that expect to do whatever you want in a WZ and enjoy it because nobody is doing what the WZ was intended for, doing objectives. You need to get off your high horse calling others elitist because people that want to try and get better in a WZ is going to get better than you, do objectives and eventually form premades.

Isnt it because Republic rolls premades?

Apologies, I cant tell between you and the other republic guilds on reset. You all look alike......

AND That LADIES AND GENTLEMAN is the problem, ANYONE TAHT CANT HIT over 200k AND GO FULL OFFENSE should stop queuing and learn to do DPS rotation. I find it demeaning for people to just roll into FP, OP, or WZ with a half assed attitude, this is whats killing SWTOR. Instead of people learning to do proper rotation they slap buttons and hope to do a lot of damage. The problem is ALL classes are capable of hitting a million but people seem to think that if you slap some buttons and auto fire you will do well. THIS is whats the problem here.

So Goof Troop can farm the Empire all day long like they been doing in the reset morning except a certain premade or players?

Apparently you assume too much, not once did I say PuG are ALL terrible. All I am simply saying is that "PREMADE ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR RUINING YOUR REGULAR WZ" experience, which is the point of this THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE. If that is not clear then you need to stop playing MMOs in general. If Premade wasnt allowed then friends wont be made and guilds wont be risen. If premades never existed then hell why would they even add OPs, FPs and even heroic quest that require a group to organize a premade. Now if the thread said "SUPERQUEUES OF THE SAME RATED WZ GROUP ARE RUINING REGULAR WZ" then I would agree that would be a problem. But that would be simply a server problem that you need to work it out with within your server. But again a PREMADE of 4 doesnt guarantee instant wins, its only guarantee if the other side doesnt put up a fight. Which IMO is the bigger problem for PuGs. Once PuGs stop playing half assed and try to win WZ will be fun and Premades wouldnt be as a threat. But because of the quality of PuGs which the majority are not playing as the WZ is designed for, it leads to problems. But NOOO its not PuGs fault, its defeinitely the premade they need to stoop to your level and carry PuGs because its so much more fun right?

Love your logic champ. Just so you know I do 80% PuG and 20% Premade. But I keep saying this but you guys assume I do 150% Premade and nothing else. So basically its ok to just do PuGGing and blame premades for kicking your *** and bending you over. I mean you might as well blame Bioware to allow all this to happen, while your at it go blame PEOPLE for grouping up together because geez we should be all hating each other and untrusting of each other right? Talk about cynicism here.

Let's try some notes: 1. Good for you, I used to do that, now I quit if I see repeatedly stupid things, cause 9/10 at my time if I play the end of the game, I have to play with the same guys again. I get a 40% chance of a different group that might play a lil more smartly ( I still could lose, but at least the people trying rather than sitting there and being tools ). 2. Joining premades is not about whether you have time or not. Its whether you can get a group of friends or good players to queue up and WZ together, it doesnt require alot of WZ's to do this. You pulling the parent card to simply state that you CANNOT find people to WZ is your problem. I mean if you see a good player or 2 dont you wanna ask for a premade for a single match even? To go casual and go nah I cant be bothered premading is somehow Bioware's fault to allow this to happen, right? 3. OK, So you come from PoT5. I thought that the PvP there was "decent" or so I thought from threads and such to go to your server for PvP. Or am I missing something there? Because your ranting about being pugstomped, here yet you come from a server that should have decent PvP, right?

When you do OPS can you be casual and **** around? If you are skilled and/or outgear the damn content. When you do PvP can you be casual? Yes but you should be TRYING TO WIN. When you do Dailies do you go half assed? Up to you, if you want to spend hours on a daily that can be done fast and efficient. Which would you prefer? I'm tired of these "I dont have enough time" BS. Its like saying that it gives you the right to be half assed when you say that. Thats what pisses me off. Its why Premade is increasing. If people werent half assed, then Premades wont be so dominate because it only yields a slight advantage. Its not advantage enough to claim otherwise. If I have to play with PuGs at least he courtesy is to not give up when the chips are down and fight hard and try and win. EDIT: Dont give me BS about PuGs ISNT HERP DERP, when I see PuG try and set up passes, communicate, and **** thats good tactics. When I see PuG say nothing go in the middle and zerg thats HERP DERP ****. 90% of those matches are the latter. The 10% are those waiting for friends to get onto a premade. If you want to enjoy your experience then you need to learn the damn tactics. Nobody wants to premade with a guy that wont put *********** effort in.

So where did I say I want to fight only pug again? The reason why I am against PuG vs PuG cause it'll do a few stupid things: - Premade will just simple queue solo and time it so that they group up. - PuG vs PuG ends up being a herp derp stupid match, its just DM and nothing else. Now to say I dont vs against other premades, why dont you come to Harbinger 55 on reset as Empire when we get to face Republic superqueues. I deal with them all the time, Premade or PuG. Stop assuming that premades want to pug stomp, and if they do its because your stupid to let that happen in the first place. If you werent stupid then you can tell me off, but as far as I am concerned PuGs are beyond hope sometimes.

I love how people are clinging on hope to ban premades to make WZ even. It never will. What happens if Empire or Republic dominate for 2 hours in any time of day with PuG vs PuG? You want to ban them from playing after 2 or so games because they're too l33t? You people make me sick, you non pre-mades are why I am driven to pre-made, to avoid you *********** bads. I cant and dont work with people that dont want to put in the effort to win. I always have to yell and scream to get my point across which surprisingly works. I shouldnt need to yell but it seems to *********** work. So I keep *********** doing it. If you guys were trying to win then premades wouldnt be a big issue in the first place.

Any more other lies here? LIke how Republic can never have premades? Or how they cant hit over 100k? Oh wait...

Keep running into Republic premades. I win 50% of the time however. I'll let u guess why I win sometimes. It has something to do with me getting over 800k damage taken.

I was on my Sorc, so yes I got the item, but no i cant give it to my alt, unless there are off hand shields or generators that are legacy bound which I can do such an action.