Shadow is awesome in regulars and quiet o.k. in ranked. If you are objective-minded player choose Infiltration. IMO guarding or taking enemy's pylon/turret/node or planting a bomb is what this spec is made for. Your worst nightmare should be concealment operative, but with the proper use of low slash, force slow, instalift and force wave with root you should be fine against average ops. Infiltration shadow imo is also very good against sorcs. Serenity Shadow has better survivability and can be more of a use in a group fight thanks to their ability to put pressure with dots. So, if you’re aiming to contribute to overall damage numbers of your team, choose serenity. Can’t say much about Kinetic Combat, because I’m awful at tanking, it’s just not my thing. I main a shadow from 2.0 and never had a better experience in pvp with other classes/specs I play.

Prog is fun. Most of my chars are there. Pops for unranked are good at peak hours. Ranked at current Fraction population is a one-sided game and pops are only at peak times. Imps vs Imps, where chances in solo are fair, or Reps vs Imps, where chances are 1 out of 10 for Reps I'd say. It's funny, but there are many outstanding PvPers despite the fact, that it's and RP server. Reps do not have many pre-mades, but sometimes perform f****g amazing full-PUG team. That's the best thing about the Progenitor- you never know how embarassing or awesome the game will be. I never had so many comebacks anywhere else from 2% at NC to victory, or from 30 against 200 points at ACW to triple-cap and win.

I have to agree with mostly everything Alssaran said. We should phrase it correctly- do not ban premades, or limit their group size. Give PUGs a chance to avoid pre-mades. Maybe some kind of “Players in Queue” window shall pop up, showing just role icons and those of them in group in one color box/field. If a pug sees that there is a 4-8 m premade on the other side, he will have a chance to skip this wz and queue system automatically puts him in a different queue. Or if he sees that there is a premade on his side and he decides that chances are fair, he stays. Also, there are some great players playing solo mostly, and they don’t give a S*** on who to play against- they will stay. Maybe that solution will make queues longer and partly kill randomness factor- I’m bad in theories. But at the same time it will help to solve “too many healers on a team” problem. Who would stay in a queue with 3 healers on the other side knowing that in 9 out of 10 cases at least two of them would be sorcs? Somebody will have to re-log as dps or tank not to wait forever. It can also be a motive for pugs to group up without voice communication at least with those they know and see on a fleet if they wanna try their odds at higher level of competition against premades. The wolves are sated and the sheep intact

I have a very simple tip I usually use, while playing against rough teams: social aspect of the game. For instance, when I play as a stealther and I go to cap a node at NC, I’d click on the capping enemy player at East/West and quickly write in general chat: Watch your back, <player’s name>. Or if the guard on the opposite node is non-stealther, I’d perform a social action after he capped like “you fall asleep in front of <player’s name>”. It is funny how in some cases they call inc immediately (giving mid 1 man advantage) or start to perform chaotic AOE’s and stop capping. Sometimes somebody at mid reacts without responding to inc. Of course, it doesn’t work in 90% of cases, but these remaining 10% can become a small contribution to overall victory. Also, some great pvpers have very fragile egos. Making them rage out means making them lose concentration which brings mistakes. Last time at NC, again, a jugg, well-known one from Imp side on my server, came to cap our node. I called inc because I knew I'm no match, saw 1 guy rushing to help me on the map and decided to open on him. So, we started to fight, I had couple of nice crits, phase walked and used a health boost on the cliff, and used my lol-slash with good timing, and he popped Enraged Defense, maybe a little early. So I instalifted the guy and “tickled” him, while he was hanging. Then help arrived and we finished him quick. I quickly wrote in general chat “come again, sweetheart” and this probably pissed him off badly. He was coming again and again, I fought him off, mezed, blew kisses, fell asleep in front of him while he was mezzed, and so on. His dps contribution that would be of use in mid all went nowhere. He seemed so frustrated that responded in General chat after the match was over (we won) calling me a noob and a s#@cker. Note, I never offend or call out names or anything like that and there is no need to, I beg you. The game offers nice and fun tools to make one lose concentration. I use this kind of light trolling only against dominating teams or players, and sometimes it works.

This. Also, when I play VG I play mostly for its ridiculous speed buff (Hold the line with Charge the Line+Battlefield Training) which makes strafing dances insane. Keybord turners pass out, god bless them.

Deception. And lol slash is your bread and butter. Add 1 hard stun, spike (spinning kick),instalift (if chosen from utilities) and seismic granades that any objective-oriented player should have- and you will be CC- king-of-the-node. Deception indeed lacks burst, but IMO atm this spec is at where it should be. If you waste your stuns wisely, you may perform a neat and a very quick kill as well. Though, the thought of deception with bigger burst mezmerizes me:rolleyes: I would trade my 30 m range of lol slash for that.

+ If you are objective-oriented player use focus target on your node guard- as soon as you see him loosing health (debuffs/mezz/stun icons appearing)- rush to help. Some people panic and try to stay alive when a crafty oper/sin opens on them so you can react faster keeping an eye on your FT. Focus target can be used in various ways and can be a kind of magic (when people wonder how a good guard soloes 2 attackers- he was probably smartly using FT and cc's). Takes some practice though.

A very well argumented point of view, have to totally agree on that. Also I've been thinking the same way, especially when trying to get over pain being a diehard Rep since SW KOTOR.

Operative's roll can be very much annoying, but they cann pull this trick off (scoring 6 goals very fast, though NOT in two minutes) only working in a pair at least, as Snave was describing previously, and only against an unknowing team. When I'm in huttball warzone I prefer defensive play style- I usually go to mid from right/left flank while playing shadow/vanguard(two classes I play the most) and if I see that opponent team is gonna grab the ball first, I try to interrupt any attempt to get behind our team's front line to receive a pass. So, I basically use harpoon-into-fire as a vanguard or I get close/shadow stride stealthed as a shadow, forcewave the m *****cker off the platform and decide whether to go after him or stay on the platform if the ball carrier is gonna take the ball on his own and your team can't stop him for some reason. Right positioning is your clue to stopping these tricksy opses. If you see that your team is rushing to the ball in one group (or in one straight line) without keeping an eye on flanks and behind-the- front-line area- be the one who does it. I’d put it this way: knowing that two operatives can perform fast scoring you should get into Huttball match keeping in mind some countermeasures, not thinking of how unfair it is. IMO carrying the ball as a decent immortal jugg being supported by a decent healer is way more annoying- you won’t stop them and it will last forever.

Can't imagine playing as a stealth class and clicking/keybord turning. You lose precious half second just to stealth out and then click on turret to start capping . Or what about stealing a pylon from a smart player who’s guarding 30-40 m away when you need to mezz him, then immediately phase walk back, stealth out and cap? I doubt that a clicker will manage to pull this off. I'd say such classes as sin or operative won't forgive clicking. You may do well against non-experienced players, but I do not believe you can deal with a good PT under two speed buffs strafing around you and going through his binded 3-button rotation over and over. Also, as Qwurdilu said previously, your self- awareness and reaction time improve the less you have to look at your skill bars and the more you react instinctively. Keybinder’s muscle memory gives one huge advantage over a clicker imo.

I wonder how people play ops/drells without key binding and quick hands. It is what deastroys them first of all. Skilled players (not me) can perform very well with this class, so well that you will die faster then finish typing INC W 1 But they are few.

Signed. (thinking about unsub.* Sigh*)

"A team with multiple healers is like any other team. You simply focus down with good dps." It works, if the other team does not have competent healers. Last Hypergate I've played Imp team had a 4M premade(2 sorchealers, 1 tank and 1 dps) with decent pugs, ours (all pugs) had 1 competent healer and one extrodinary (meaning: when you see this guy in your team you know you won't use your defencive cd's). Both sages. So. It was this boring game of numbers. Guards were dozing at pylons, while in the mid it was non-stop 7 vs 7 with barely anyone duying. We won only because couple of people managed to sneak orbs in the middle of the fight. I didn't die once, got my medals, comms and -these incredible numbers- but it was no fun. It's like everyone used "power overwhelming" cheat code. I could've put something on the attack button and go away to have some tea, honestly.

This. I would also advise all struggling Reps: Join any organized guild (meaning: not the guild that spam invites anyone; organized guilds usually have at least a forum; most of them have their own web page). There are plenty of good guilds that do not require constant TS presence or guildrun participation or whatever. I personally appear in TS only when I wanna do premade warzones. When I'd feel like running with PUGs, I'd check who's dwelling at the PVP vendor section of the Fleet atm, because many of the names that you know would be with 2018 exp dwell there while in queue. If you wanna run solo without being a part any guild- do the latter at least, it's an easy step to make sure can contribute to a gathering proper-geared PUG team. Going extra-mile-you may whisper to another proud soloer with an offer to create a contemporary group. Rep's second big problem after tiny population is that Reps do not seem to make an effort to stick together somehow, despite the fact that they should under Imps domination on most servers. Small example: We've been running a full 8M premade couple of months ago, facerolling imps in mid bracket. Our guildie, who was on TS with us but has been logged in on Imp side told us, that our premade group was a discussion subject in the Imperial fleet chat atm. So, they've quickly craeted a group of four (all from different guilds), I think, that queued on the other side with the rest and we found it a lot harder to win through next games. And when huttball popped they've used the huttball advantages of 3 ops on their team and burned us 6 to 1 simply rolling through acid and fire and passing. That is something to admire- a wilingness to get teamed and organized. Though my heart belongs to Reps,I can never imagine someone in the Rep fleet chat calling out to fight imps back, but many whining- yes. Story-wise, Reps should stick together at any cost, but we get vise versa.

Is this a youtube star returning? Lol, this is an extrodinary example of trolling. Otherwise I want your drugs.

Yesterday I hit LVL 62 with my Tactics Vanguard and this is what I feel: Back in my Quake 3 Arena days. Man, with Van’s Hold the line + 2 tires that give you speed bonus it’s mobility becomes insane. I caught a little sorc running to help at Eastern node during NC, and I’ve started to strafe around like a monkey on amphetamines smashing the priority that feels ridiculously easy after Infiltration Shadow and Sawbones Scoundrel- the poor guy was barely catching up while trying to face me. He did not reacted fast enough to pop his bubble due to sudden vertigo, probably. Something definitely needs to be done about this, but maybe just leave it as it is, for lulz.

Below is the masochism post. I ‘ve started to play a little before 3.0 on a Rep side and I can say that I am a devoted Rep. Still. I went into pvp as a clueless key-smasher at lvl 10 and was a part of this army of idiots leaving nodes, running around, not calling incs, etc. An army that makes Rep side so attractive After learning a little of basic rotations and gaining some experience I still couldn’t improve my winning ratio: 1:10. What made me unsub for like a month was about twenty games spent at lvl 60 (shortly after 3.0)- I got depressed by Imp side domination, and I did not want to roll an Imp char to feel the difference. Nevertheless I’ve returned, joined a guild with active pvp’ers, started to ask questions and so on. I’m not an outstanding player by now, but I follow the objectives, do decent healing/damage/ tanking, depending on which char I play, and yeah, my usual winning ratio is like 3:10(4:10 on lucky days). It can be 10 out of 10 on the days when Imp players forget to use their keybord and mouse, though. Now, I play on an RP server- the Progenitor- where Imp side domination is far more than obvious. You may call me crazy, but I like it. First of all, I like being on the underdog side. Second, when I team up with my guildies or run with PUGs that I know by names and we fight vs strong Imps I also know by names, and we win (often by very little)- it feels like 12x satisfaction boost. Of course, I would love to see more Imp players trying to play on the Rep side to improve number of close matches. But with the current set it's hopeless. And, of course, when you get completely clueless teammates 10 times in a row it feels like it’s better to try later. But imo, this population misbalance brings more hatred among Reps and Imps and that is the way it should be, perhaps, - this is Star Wars first of all and it’s about all-galaxy rivalry. And there was a short period when I’ve played between 56-59 lvls and Reps were unexcitingly amazing- it was boring, to be honest. Winning many times in a row is no fun , it rather makes you feel sorry for the losing side. As for those who change fractions just to win by means of others- I have no objections, personally. Then I can be sure that there are always godmode lovers and warlords-please-carry-me players on the other side- and I fight with rage and pleasure. Imp domination just makes it more fun for many. PS. Ah, nerf somebody, please.

I've run through many threads on PVP forum and got a sad overall impression that this huge aspect of the game is really broken. Speaking of EU servers. I've transfered my main from the Progenitor (though it is an RP server it had some live and healthy PVP , but for a short period of time before 3.0) to ToFN(PVP) just to do more solo ranked- I was joining each pop last night and there were always me and another shadow- same guy, 5 times in a row. Always against 4. It doesn't really matter for me whether it is a premade or not that you face if it is arena fight, but 2 on 4 in 90% is hopless unless you face blind idiots in PVE gear. So I understood that there were only me and this guy in queue from rep side, and pops kept appearing because the two of us were desperate to play solo ranked, while from Imp side we had a diversity of players:) On the 5th match in a row we've agreed to quit unless at least 1 player will join because continueing from our side was as bad as win-trading. No one arrived, as you may guess. Broken matching system, FOTM toons overpopulation (I play infiltration shadow as my main from 2.0 despite obvious serenity/hatred dominating), trolls, lags, bad balance, broken bolster- a short list of obvious problems. But the saddest thing for me personally is that I see the same faces from both sides 75% of time and all the fun and common sence in playing this aspect of the game dissappear. I've seen many newbies who were leaving PVP (got it from reading ops and general chats) because they were getting a terrible experience. Newbies who joined a little before and after 3.0 are scared of PVP, I believe. Can't blame them. Thank you guys, for taking your time and sharing nicely phrased and honest opinions, hope they will be noticed.

Made a post on the Progenitor Server forum http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=811627 Rep side PVP on the Progenitor is beyond ridiculous, so I've just moved my mains to ToFN. Didn't try it here though. I was thinking that Rep's terrible overall performance is due to the quantity of RP-oriented casual PVE players, so I've decided to check a PVP server. Your post is not encouraging, though all my mains are lvl 60.

It's not even funny any more. I usually queue for solo ranked or regular and I see folk talking in ops chat about loosing before the match begins, like imps only consist of elite fighters in premade with GODEMODE ON! Ok, I agree that premade is an often case on Imp side, but it doesn't mean that you loose by default if you are a company of pugs, not saying about getting facerolled. And the latter happens terribly often. I've started a habbit to inspect players before the match begins a while ago and usually in regs I see 2-3 people including myself with 2018 exp and the rest- in mixed gear or with no PVP gear at all. And then people in chat go about how imps are overpowered and hit like hammer. No, I'm not hell of a fighter but I can find ways to contribute in winning the WZ whether I play my dps, healer or tank. There is nothing special in learning at least how to be useful, not everyone has time to become an elite warlord, but it seems that on Rep side 70% of the community knows little of what to do in PVP matches and cares little about getting minimally equipped. If we add an often matching against premade, it makes PVPing for reps a terrible experience. When I had my "faceroll times" I was naturally wondering how to improve my performance. Please, there are hundreds of manuals with tips and "how to"'s. I have started to think that many impatient glory-lovers rushed to join Imp side to compenstate pain felt by burning down former allies. As a result queue times are becoming longer, and solo ranked pops take forever now- no one wants to be destroyed. I don't want to change fractions because of constant shameful defeats- all my mains are reps,- it seems like changing server will do. PS: Of course, Reps win, when people who's names you've learned by heart appear online, at least 2-3 on a PUG team, but it is ridiculos to put your hopes in chance of having the same people on your team all the time. After one of the matches when Rep team got smashed I've met the same previously top-rated Imps in 4 vs 4 regular match. We were 3 average dps and -mere luck!- a solid healer I knew from his WZ appearances. We've finished both rounds in a bit more than a minute each with no one defeated on our side. JUST ONE HEALER WHO KNEW WHAT TO DO AND EVERYONE WITH 2018 EXP.

When I first came to play SWTOR I had little experience in MMO"s and as a fan of original KOTOR I've chosen a force-using class as my first character to play. After first 10-15 WZs the sound of blade/shotgun together with sadistic laugh or ironic giggle were my worst nightmares, because my poor inexperienced shadow was dying too often after hearing them:) At the same time I was intrigued and amazed by the swiftness and lethality of this op/scoundrel class while opposing them, so I've created Scrapper to see how deadly you can be on this side. At that moment (it was patch 2.4 or so I believe) the class has suffered several nerfs already as I've read on forums here, and many players were speaking of losing fun and soul while playing the class.But still more or less there was one main thing you would have to get through to become scary in WZ- hours and hours of practice, constant tactics change and trying to be as fast as possible while using multiple key bindings and dancing around opponents. The class was offering great opportunities in exchange for lots of time you had to spend while learning to be deadly, it felt that I did a lot better with shadow in shorter period of time. I never became an elite player, but I did pretty good in helping my team to neutralize healers, take out guards at turrets or doors, and-the main thing- to drive opponent crazy when needed with this sudden crushing attacks. And I always felt great respect seeing other scrappers/concealment ops who brought great havoc on filed dropping people dead in seconds- I knew it took them time and patience to become that fast and lethal. IMO people whining about how overpowered ops and drells were never really tried to play them or didn't go far studying this class. Just a simple fact that loosing position and opener could cost you the whole fight(at some point I understood it while playing against ops and drells with my shadow) was fair enough to make your cannon the glass one. I know that maybe it doesn't look bad on paper as folk says here, but it just doesn't feel as much fun , and this feeling of swift, deadly, but fragile killer is gone- it feels kind of numb now. My Scrapper is something very medium, neither raw nor well done. Can't say much about PVE- didn't do it a lot with this char after 3.0 came out. Offtop: At least an army of depressed sins and shadows might like 3.0- so far so good both in PVP and PVE IMO.