He doesnt mean the expertise scaling. Expect hes meaning force scaling off weapon damage. Been discussed in detail a couple of pages back.

Firstly, good job for presenting a relatively balanced argument, although I disagree with you . You're right that guard is the root of the issue for healing balance overall in this game and what makes it a hard one to pin down. I do disagree with you on the specific case of sage/sorc (and merc for reasons of output only). Why do I disagree in this case. Simply because these classes are just too immobile to play the way they currently do. Think about it, every significant heal for a sage/sorc is a cast of 1.5s+. 1.5s is a LONG time against good PvPers (let alone 2.5/3s) and with the amount of cc and interupt in this game what kind of good pvper is NOT going to interrupt a stationary cloth wearer with a cast bar above him? The issue has never been about output. If left to freecast sorcs are more than fine just check the wz figures some people post. The issue is about viability: If we need to kite to live then why are all our heals stationary casts/channels? If we need to stand still then why do we have cloth armor and no def cds? The class is simply poorly thought out.

There is only one abuser of truth in this thread. You. Counter the arguments with realistic, unbiased situations and you will be worth listening to. Until then youre either a troll or a very bad player trying in vain to preserve an unfair advantage to use as a crutch. What are your arguments?: I find Healer hard to kill therefore they are fine Judging a class on your own inability to play is probably not a great plan. You have no experience of playing a healer so your opinion is frankly moot. I can kill any sorc/sage healer easily on my jugg, frankly (as i hit them for 5k+ with insta casts as I watch them try and channel a nice 2.5s spell that heals for a mighty 5k on crit) its not hard. Howcome you can't? Look in the mirror. You are the weakest link! You all want to be tanks!!!one Not thinking we should be a free kill for any faceroll DPS =/= wanting to be a tank. Is it that hard to understand? Currently the best mitgation in the game is held by DPS classes. How can that possibly be right? You are all bad and need to L2P derp If we are so bad then how come most of us are significantly better on alts/other classes? Magic? This is why you fail. You have such a limited, one dimensional experience of PvP in this game that you are simply not qualified (ironically for the self styled professor) to comment. I know personally that (despite having 10 years of PvP healing experience in multiple games and winning multiple tournaments) I am more effective in swtor on my MDPS than my healer. Despite traditionally being a self admmited "bad" melee player. Somehow now am magically good at MPDS and rubbish at healing? Really? What is the likely reason for that? Please prof teach us. You have loads of def cds already According to you everything we have is a def cd. FL has a slow attached therefore is a def CD!!! Face it the best def cd we have is the respawn button. Full heal with 0cd! Opd!!!! Obviously ignore the fact that 1/ our "def cds" (ie bubble) dont scale at all and 2/ Theyre all total junk anyway compared to what many dps classes get. WE has to be in melee rangeS!!!! We needs op cos yu have many range! You have multiple 10m skills, all melee classes have some. On top of that you have a massive arsenal of gap mitigators and gap closers. Melee range in this game is NOT the massive issue it is in other games. Dont tell me it is, i have NO issues chasing down a kiter on my jugg, 2 charges, spammable root ontop of normal cc is total easy mode. I actually play melee DPS and heal. I have an experienced position. You do not. You just have an axe to grind as for some reason you think you're entitled to beat other players with little/no effort. Sorc/Sage healers are BRUTALLY underpowered atm. You can't hide it and your malformed "proof" (lol) is fooling noone.

Keep dodging those points and selective reading. Its very impressive. The principle "bad" in this thread is you. Proven time and time again. Every "fact" you post is dressed so heavily in bias to render it moot. Your situational analysis is always concieved with circular logic with the preconcieved aim of backing up your point. Thats not "fact", thats politics. Go away.

How is that remotely what he said? Ofc healers should die (and do, a lot...), but their survivability should be somewhere between tank and DPS. Currently they are the absolute least survivable in PvP. Explain why currently DPS classes have the best df cds? Yep. Thanks.

Actually (as usual) you are wrong and distorting the facts. Guard REDIRECTS damage. It does not negate it. A healer/ tank Duo with the healer taking damage a whopping 5% less damage than before however 50% is REDIRECTED to the tank. If you are going to talk of balanced numbers when viewing a heal tank combo you simply cannot treat them in isolation. Do you seriously think the tank getting hit for 50% of the healer's damage is ignorable? Obviously the healers output now needs to be spread across 2 targets. As usual your myopic and oversimplified view of PvP leads you to an irrelevant conclusion. Heres a though for you, step away from your theorycraft, level a healer to 50 alongside your DPS faceroll and THEN make your comments. You wont have a leg to stand on.

I just summarized, most of your posts!!! In fuller summary: "You all want to be tanks" No, noone wants that. However we DO want to be able to live long enough to DO SOMETHING. "You dont understand DPS" Most people now have multiple alts, many to 50 BM/WH (I know I do...). Do you honestly believe that none of us have DPS alts? Seriously? The main reason I KNOW the sorc/sage class is imba is *BECAUSE* I have a BM/WH jugg. Its blindly obvious when youve played both sides of the coin. Take your own medicine, level a sorc/sage healer to 50 and then come back when you have a valid opinion. "1 healer should > 1 DPS" What planet are you from? 90% of the MMO population wants to play DPS. Do you think making healers (already with tanks a vast minority of the players) manifestly worse than a DPS will keep this balanced? Of course not. An already marginalised playstyle will become even more so. If a DPS > a healer why would you EVER bring a healer?????? The ideal situation is stalemate. 1 DPS neutralises 1 healer.

Terrible idea. The point of PvP is winning matches (ie objectives). The game already rewards facerolling 1v1 ers enough as it is. Objective based PvP is one of the (few) redeeming features of this games PvP.

You have a lot of CC for sure. However not so good reading skills as this is a thread about sorcs/sages not sins/shadows. GG.

Sorc and Sages are overpowered. This is well known. They have a 4s stun and lightning. NERF!

People just dont get this atm. You have bad and vocal dpsers saying "DERP I CANT KILL HELERRRR OPDSS!!!" but good DPS realise that a static healer is a free kill no matter their skill level. The only people who think healers are currently balanced are: Very bad players People who play against very bad people People with vested interests Bloody minded types who will ALWAYS claim balance and "L2P" as a badge of honour rather than making rational assessments

So the DPS is 100% self sufficient (you said the opposite 10 mins ago btw) but healers and tanks have to team to stand a chance. Nice thought process. How about we just take a shortcut and just give you a nice big red I win button. Oh wait you have undying rage.

Marginalises DPS??? You serious? Wow. I cannot imagine how incredibly poor you must be to think that. It is *SO* easy to play an MDPS right now. Laughably, hilariously easy. To effectively kill a sage on my jugg i have to hit 6 abilities. SIX ABILITIES. (Enrage, charge, obliterate, smash, scream, vicious slash, at that point any non-guarded sage is below 30% and hence effectively dead (due to finishers), 1/3 of the abilies are also interupts/roots too, so they have literally no chance). I have it macrod, its just the same every time >>> dead sage. To kill a jugg on my sorc (when Im DPS spec) I have to kite it using everything I have for around 30 seconds. If the jugg is even semi competent they will stop me from kiting as they have so many options for gap reduction. I'm not even going to mention what its like as full heal spec vs melee nvm marauders and the joke def cds they have. If you cant see the imbalance there you are clearly intentionally ignoring it. Currently in 1.3 it takes 1 DPS to look at a non op healer and they are dead. In 1.2 one DPS could guaranteed kill a solo healer unless they were clinically deficient. In 1.1 healers were a little overpowered (a little....). Dps are not reliant on healers at all. Its quicker for a dps to kill the opposition healer and get OOC than to spend the whole game peeling for a healer who is constantly on the brink of death / running miles away from the objective. The only class reliant on healers are tanks who are effectively non-existent in most PvP games now. Never played WoW but nice assumption. My background is large scale PvP games where I am consistently one of the top players. The point is not that "I want my class to be better than yours" (although that seems to be your choice), the point is that we have strategic, skilled and FUN pvp that each class and role has a point in. Currently there is nothing that a sorc or merc healer can bring that an op cant do better. Extract yourself from your intrinsic bias and tribalism, take a step back and you will see that the current state is FAR from correct. I play a jugg, I have no interest in nerfing all DPS into the ground. I just want a fun, balanced PvP experience with some strategy and tactics involved.

Strange, but then you said that in 1.2. In fact in any patch that favors DPS you say that (wonder why that is...?). Hell you even claimed healers were opd in 1.2! What you say on this topic is just beyond a joke as your opinion is so obviously vested. Truth is that since 1.2 this game has been DPS central. The only viable healer against organised teams is operative as they are the only ones who can actually kite and heal effectively. Sure Sorcs and Mercs *can* put out good numbers. However thats against disorganised teams who do not know how easy it is to shut a static healer down. If anything the ability to put those numbers out hurts these classes as it masks exactly how bad they are. 1.3 was supposed to reduce burst, but instead its just buffed DPS so much that overall burst is barely affected. I have no idea why this is surprising to anyone, its 100% obvious that BW only "balance" this game for DPS classes. BW's beloved "metrics" are obviously based around overall averages, which take no account of the opposition. I'm very sure that on average the figures look reasonably balanced, however against good teams a different story emerges, 2 of the 3 healing classes are just jokes against good teams. What needs to be done is: Overall DPS toned down (TTK changed, significantly) for all classes. Sorc/Sage healers need a defensive CD urgently and changes to the cast time of healing spells (2s is an utter joke, even 1s is easy to interrupt). Given their pathetic natural defence this would seem obvious but, guess not eh. Merc healers need either more defence OR stronger heals (depending on the long term direction for the class). If they're a turret healer they need to be able to actually take some damage. Otherwise exactly what is their point? As context I have a WH jugg and a WH sorc. Sorc/sage IS underpowered against any decent team. People may disagree with that but tbh, I think thats mainly due to the majority of players being very bad. When you play good team against good team its just blatently obvious.

Seriously? All other voiceovers are great this one is just... Weird. Like daytime TV weird. Anyone else agree?

If you only play 4 hours a week anything in an MMO will bea "grind" to you. The economy is crappy in this game, yes, but the economy in any game with BoP (and BoE to a lesser extend) items is always crappy. Developers are just scared by the idea of people actually trading as they are "skipping content". BoP/BoE is the single worst concept ever put into an MMO.

Obviously your aoe dps is far more important than a team mate attempting to survive. How about give sorc/sage a def cd and then we wont have to us KB as our only survival strategy. Melees have no clue. And yes I have a WH jugg too.

Total output is a moot point when you have stand still to heal. If I had a 5s 100% heal it would still be 90% useless if 2/3 dps are focusing. Op is by far the best PvP healer entirely due to their mobility and escape potential.

Snow and Grass is actually easier for most people (seeing as the average player can't tell his left from his right nevermind east from est). Pretty standard thing on most servers.... If you don't know where snow/grass is from mid then the fail is kinda yours for not knowing the map, its not hard.

Are you more or less likely to win a game with 7 average people (fair guess) with 13k hps or with 7 average people with 18k hps? I think you need to stop calling names and get real. Unless freakish things happen 99 times in 100 the 18ks will win as to have got full WH they are usually at least semi competent. But then you dont care... right?

Just setup group finder for PvP. Easy.

For me its on average worse players on the merged server: Worse players = worse competition.... For the record in no way complaining about the merge (100% required), just a surprising observation.

Imo underpowered: - Concealment Op (likely worse with 1.3 due to burst nerf) - Heal Sorc (numbers are fine, too static to be good in quality PvP) - Merc DPS (oxymoron) Imo overpowered: - Anni Marauder (def cds too good + likely net buff from 1.3) - PT DPS (too much DPS, too little skill) - Assassin Tank (fixed in 1.3 hopefully) - Op Healer (a bit... mainly when guarded)

Well, I think imbalance is there (playing jugg and sorc to good levels/ranks) and on changing server Ive gone from feeling underpowered in 1 class (sorc) and balanced in another (jugg) to feeling like an uber unkillable god in both. I think that both aspects could be true due to the differences between servers. On "good" servers imbalances are pretty damn obvious as its a higher level. On "bad" servers people play so badly that even the good players think "you must be playing it wrong". Tbh if I had been playing these noobs all the time I'd definitely think it was balanced and people were moaners... Guess acid test will be ranked then I think quite a lot of the "L2P nub" ranks will get a few shocks re actual balance.

Bearing in mind im principally a healer.....