Need an achievement shot to verify an 8 man Writhing Horror kill. Nightmare Council, I gather by the UTC clock on your screenshot that you killed the Dread Guard roughly a day before your post? As for the pre-nerf DG kills, a set of lines in the progression list can be messed up if a raid that cleared the DG this week is able to jump ahead of YES or Invictus for the Terror kill. I was thinking of sticking this block right before the kills list (I would need to dig back and find the kill dates): Pre-nerf Dread Guard kills:

Chatos Paladins and Select Few, I went with the time on the game clock for each of your DG kill pictures. Time zones could effect the ordering of your kills (only relevant until one of you kills Operator), so let me know if either of your kill shots is not in PST. The nerf on the Dread Guard fight is quite substantial. Phase 1 and 2 lost any sort of healing and DPS checks. I would be open to including a separate section for the 4 guilds who killed the DG before this last nerf to honor that accomplishment.

It's a technicality but can you show proof of an 8 man Writhing Horror kill?

Time zone for the screenshot? Want to make sure APEX and Chatos Paladins are listed in correct order.

Parse was 4:59.4 long, retrimmed to 5 minutes flat resulting in 3092 DPS.

This exactly. To elaborate, my guild was one of the first to jump a bunch of melee up to the Demolitionist in HM Thrasher. We were running progression with 2 Maras, 1 Jugg, and 1 Sin DPS. We figured if you could jump up in SM, then you could jump up in HM and downed the boss in 1 or 2 tries. Who the hell would have the authority and ego to step in and say that kill is invalid? We're running with 4 melee, there's no possible way we would have noticed the shields on the Snipers, and we didn't need to look for the knockback/roar mechanic because we were able to jump up immediately. NIM Toth and Zorn, a guild could have stumbled upon an "exploit" kill by shear random luck. The yellow circle slowed you, so if it kept getting dropped on your RDPS and they had slow reaction time (and no Sorcs in the raid) then you could have missed dropping the circle on Zorn every time by honest mistake. Bioware runs as a black box, it is incredibly conceited to assume you know what Bioware intended or not.

Said it at the start, will say it again. It seems people are asking not for a proper cooldown but a mechanic cheeser. We already have that in Hydraulic Overrides. Let's take an actual look at the current situation of tank cooldowns: Self Heal: Jugg – Endure Pain. Instant 15.2k heal. Refunds the health after 20 seconds (though it’s better to click it off when you’re good on health). Sin – Overcharge Saber. Instant 5.7k heal. Causes Dark Charge to heal for roughly 60 HPS more than normal. Also has 25% DR tied in. Powertech – Kolto Overload and Shoulder Cannon. Kolto Overload heals at 2800 HPS when under 30%, and 900 HPS when over 30%. That’s between 7.2k and 22.4k healing over 8 seconds. Shoulder Cannon heals 1900 HPS for 4 seconds, or 7.6k total. Active self healing can then range from 7k to 30k. Also has passive self healing when taking damage from AOE. Notes: I argue with myself every day if Kolto Overload or Endure Pain is better. Kolto overload heals for a lot more, but Endure Pain wins against large spikes every time. Sins are definitely lagging in this department (looking only at the healing capabilities of the above, not any tied in DR). Defense Chance: Jugg – Saber Ward. 12 seconds of 50% defense chance increase, with the first 2-3 seconds being 100% defense chance. 2.5 minute CD gives it an uptime of 8% if used on cooldown. Also has a 25% damage reduction for Force/Tech attacks tied into it. Sin – Deflection. 12 seconds of 50% defense chance increase. 2 minute CD gives it an uptime of 10%. Has no effect on Force/Tech attacks. Powertech – Oil Slick. 17 seconds of 30% defense chance increase on targets in marked area. Raid members other than the PT tank can benefit from this effect. 1 minute CD gives an uptime of 28.3%. Has no effect on Force/Tech attacks. Notes: Looking strictly at the above CD’s effects on Melee/Ranged damage we see good balance between the 3 tanks. Juggs and Sins are very similar, with Juggs getting a longer CD to penalize the 100% initial defense chance. Powertech’s have a smaller Defense Chance increase but this is balanced by Oil Slick having remarkable uptime, and the ability for Oil Slick to be used for the co-tank’s benefit (in fact, Oil Slick is the only CD you can pop for another tank). Damage Reductions: Jugg – Invincible. 40% damage reduction to all (Melee, Force, or Internal) attacks. Lasts 12 seconds on a 2.5 minute CD giving an 8% uptime. Jugg – Saber Ward. 25% damage reduction to all Force/Tech attacks (Kinetic or Internal). Lasts 12 seconds on a 2.5 minute CD giving an 8% uptime. Has 50% melee/defense chance increase tied to it. Jugg – Total effect. Having 12 seconds of CD followed by 12 seconds of CD each on a 2.5 minute timer gives an uptime of 16%. Sin – Overcharge Saber. 25% damage reduction to all (Melee, Force, or Internal) attacks. Lasts 15 seconds on a 2 minute CD giving a 12.5% uptime. Has a 5.7k heal tied to it. Powertech – Energy Shield. 25% damage reduction to all (Melee, Force, or Internal) attacks. Lasts 18 seconds on a 2 minute CD, giving a 15% uptime. Notes: Sins and Powertechs are very similar in this department. They each have the same DR and same CD timer, and the longer effect on Energy Shield is balanced by the initial self heal for Sins. Juggs really pull away in this department by having 2 cooldowns that work against Force/Tech damage. Even though the uptimes are 12.5% - 15% - 16% (more balanced than initial appearances) being able to activate a CD at 2 separate times is a strong advantage. I Win Buttons: Jugg – Saber Reflect. 100% damage immunity to specific Ranged, Force, or Tech attacks. Lasts 5 seconds on a 1 minute CD giving an 8.3% uptime. Sin – Force Shroud. 100% Resist chance to Force/Tech attacks. Last 5 seconds, and the cooldown is nominally 1 minute but can be reduced to around 45 seconds, giving an uptime between 8.3% and 11.1%. Notes: Powertech’s aren’t on this list. There is nothing a PT can do to say “I win for the next 5 seconds.” The asymmetries are that 1) Sins fall behind in the initial self heal department (other 2 tanks balanced here). 2) Juggs are far ahead in the long duration cooldowns that work against Force/Tech damage (other 2 tanks balanced here). 3) Powertechs don’t have the “I win button” that has been a long time feature of Sin tanking and was handed to Juggs in 2.0. How does all of that play out in practice? Well, for 1) it depends on the fight but Sins can cloak out of combat to reset their medpac (which PT and Jugg can’t) on the same cadence of Overcharge Saber. While not optimal, Overcharge Saber + Medpac can be simultaneously used for an 11k heal. That’s still behind Endure Pain, but it’s enough to eat another spike hit (remember you get the 25% DR too) and you don’t have to refund the HP. For 2) a small but incomplete balancing of having twice as many F/T Cd’s is that Juggs have the worst F/T mitigation. And for 3) Force Shroud and Saber Reflect are never actual guarantees of winning. Popping either on Writhing Horror will mitigate 1 out of 4 hits, and bad timing can actually cause 0 hits to be mitigated (the F/T hit is every 6 seconds). As far as using either to break mechanics, the Powertech’s counterpart is Hydraulic Overrides, which is a 6 second duration on a 30 second CD. At this point with Jugg’s armor value encroaching on Powertech’s, and Juggs being a simpler class to play now (there I’ve said it, I can just do more with the PT, it isn't the simple tank anymore), the staple of Powertech’s should now be that they don’t need the “I win button.” I really like to think of Powertechs right now as riding a motorcycle without a helmet. You just look so much cooler while doing what everyone else can, often better. You just can’t crash.

**** this more melee. APEX back on form with NIM Dashroode. Time stamp I realized after we ended for the night that I was the only person recording the fight and no one screen shotted. Between the picture and video all the relevant information should be there, but I definitely don't want to set the example for the thread like this. I will make certain our future kill shots are more thorough.

**** this more melee. APEX back on form with NIM Dashroode. Time stamp I realized after we ended for the night that I was the only person recording the fight and no one screen shotted. Between the picture and video all the relevant information should be there, but I definitely don't want to set the example for the thread like this. I will make certain our future kill shots are more thorough.

Sin tanks should never ditch their 4 piece set bonus since it is an armor increase. 4 Campaign set bonus armorings give you the same damage reduction as 4 Verpine armorings. So 4 Arkanian set bonus armorings are going to provide significantly more damage reduction than 4 Verpine armorings. Powertech set bonus is a 2% defense chance increase. For fights that are all Force/Tech damage that set bonus isn't going to help and 4 Verpine armorings are better. But in practice most TFB and S&V fights don't fall under that category, and optimizing over the whole instance you'll find 4 Arkanian set bonus armorings cause you to take less damage than 4 Verpine armorings. For Juggs, the 4 piece set bonus is very close to worthless. It mitigates 20 damage per second regardless of how high the incoming damage is. To illustrate this point, at 2500 premitigation boss DPS a Sin tank will mitigate an extra 22 DPS with set bonus, a Powertech will mitigate an extra 19 DPS with set bonus, and a Jugg will mitigate an extra 20 DPS with set bonus. 2500 premitgation means you're getting hit for around 600 DPS post-mitgation, that's Marauder facetanking levels. Actual bosses on the other hand can hit as hard as 3200 DTPS post mitigation, which backs out to about 11000 DPS pre mitigation (and then assuming WH is 100% Melee instead of 75%, makes this math go quicker). At that level, Sins mitigate 99 extra DPS with set bonus, Powertechs mitigate an extra 83 DPS with set bonus, and Juggs mitigate an extra 20 DPS with set bonus. I'm not going to say anything to the likes of buff Juggs, but I'm running NIM progression on a Jugg that only has the 2 piece set bonus. And even that's because I couldn't get a BIS enhancement to drop on Verpine gear the week before NIM TFB dropped. There isn't reason for me to push for a 4 piece, it's just that bad of a set bonus in comparison to Sins and PTs (hell, I ran PT set bonus shells pre-2.0). I would really like to see something done to make the 4 piece appealing (but not buffing Juggs overall). Changing from increases Force Scream damage absorption by 20% to reduces cooldown of Force Scream by 3 seconds would do it for me. You would effectively increase Force Scream damage absorption by 33% (meaning you mitigate 33 DPS), but more importantly it would bring back the higher skill ceiling involved in running the pre-2.0 Hybrid.

Yea what were you thinking Atriss? Mith doesn't want anyone to know how overly soft and gooey he actually is on the inside.

Very nice, your DG kill gets 100% credit. But... I don't have a Writhing Horror kill listed for Envy and this thread requires linear progression. Do you have a kill shot of the WH?

Updated. Not used to converting time zones and such, just yell at me if I got it wrong (or, do a cleaner screenshot next time). Also included an addendum about killing the Cartel Warlord out of order for the achievement. No loot or movie, no credit for kill.

Bump for healer.

Started up a new thread here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=660217 Please start posting kills in that thread and not this one.

Old Content: This old content is no longer being updated. HMSV 55 HMTFB 50 HMTFB/NMEC

Nightmare Scum and Villainy: NOTE: The achievement for the Cartel Warlords is not sufficient proof of a NIM kill. Videos are the best proof of a kill in this fight, but if you're only taking a picture it must include the loot drop as evidence of a NIM kill. Key: Republic Empire Boss is killed Boss has not been killed 8-Man [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]Hatred 7/14 1:10 am [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]Haterade 8/8 9:01 pm [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]MLP Friendship is Magic 7/13 10:13 pm [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]Select Few 7/13 [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]APEX 7/21 6:47 pm [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]The Chatos Paladins 7/22 9:42 pm [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]Raze 8/4 9:18 pm [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]Animosity 7/12 8:48 pm [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]Midian 7/18 5:43 am [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]The Silver Order 7/19 10:29 pm 16-Man [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]Intrepid 7/31 9:46 pm [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]Select Few 7/11 8:59 pm [DR][T6][Thrasher][OC][Olok][Warlords][styrak]APEX 7/31 8:54 pm 2-Hour NM Title Unlocked (8-man or 16-man): Hatred 7/30 9:18 pm NMSV Individual Boss Order: 8-Man 16-Man

Rules: Please format your posts like the following: Guild Name Empire or Republic What raid you are doing What boss you killed What day/time you killed it with your timezone Sceenshot or video proof For Example: Post a screenshot of all kills: Must have proof of difficulty mode. All screenshots must be unedited screenshots with the game clock clearly shown. Please post a direct link to the screenshot/video. I don't want to have to go digging through your guild's webpage to find it. There are a few different ways you can post an acceptable screenshot/video: Ranking: Ranking for this is going to be real simple. Guilds will be ranked by whoever is the furthest, and whoever got there fastest. In the long run, the winner will be whoever clears a raid first. Note that unlike last time around, the two raids will be tracked separately this time. The time of everyone's most recent boss kill will be posted in PDT. Please make sure your clock is visible in your screenshot, and you post your timezone. If I can't tell when you killed the boss, I'll use the time of your post instead. Pugs and Full Guild Kills: All progression kills have to be full guild kills. All screenshots for proof of kills have to be in the instance shortly after the boss dies, and all 8/16 people must be seen in the raid frames in the screenshot. What constitutes a guild kill should be fairly obvious, but things like alts and people switching guilds make it way too complicated. Here are some general guidelines, but ultimately the call is up to me. I plan on being pretty lenient about this. Get kills with your guild members, don't try and use ringers, and you will be fine. Additional PUG / Guild kills rules, guidelines, and exceptions (again, some are gonna be subjective) Must have a screenshot for each boss: No more just putting up a screenshot of the last boss, you need one for each boss you kill. The reasons are: Skipping Bosses: Skipping the Dread Guard Council (or any other boss) is not allowed. If you skip them, any progression you make after them that week WILL NOT BE COUNTED. You will NOT be banned from the thread. If you come back next week and kill the bosses in the correct order, it will be counted. Cheating: Nightmare Terror From Beyond: Key: Republic Empire Inactive Guild/Guild that no longer exists Boss is killed Boss has not been killed 8-Man [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Hatred 6/26 12:45 am [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Haterade 7/8 9:01 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Invictus 7/21 8:08 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] APEX 7/29 7:27 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Raze 8/8 8:33 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] YES 8/8 10:08 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Select Few 7/23 8:28 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] The Chatos Paladins 7/23 10:08 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Nightmare Council 7/24 5:13 am [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Midian 7/25 9:50 am [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Decimation 7/25 11:45 am [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] MLP Friendship is Magic 7/27 10:37 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Force in Balance 7/28 4:41 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] The Silver Order 8/9 9:46 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Ewokalypse Now 6/12 10:50 am [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Tatooine Royal Navy 6/12 5:13 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Animosity 6/12 5:39 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Psy-Ops 6/12 5:44 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Tyranny 6/12 7:14 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Knights of the First Order 6/12 7:27 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Solo's Cholos 6/12 10:29 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Night Stalkers 6/13 12:53 am [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Fearless Arms 6/13 1:02 am [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Swoop Gang 6/19 7:28 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Excession 6/20 5:09 am [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Underhanded 7/18 5:55 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Sinister 8/5 7:50 pm 16-Man [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Select Few 6/18 7:07 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Momentum 6/18 7:22 pm [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] Midian 6/27 4:40 am [WH][DG][Op9][KU][TFB] APEX 7/11 11:57 pm 2-Hour NM Title Unlocked (8-man or 16-man): Hatred 7/2 8:44pm Haterade 7/23 8:28pm NMTFB Individual Boss Order: 8-Man 16-Man Patches related to this content: 6/25/13 2:45am: Dread Guard Council enrage timer increased by 30 seconds 7/24/13 Dread Guards now deal slightly less damage and have decreased health in Nightmare Mode.

Looking for 1 Operative or Merc healer for immediate use in NIM TFB and S&V progression.

Things to do while your healer takes a dinner break: http://apex-theharbinger.enjin.com/gallery/m/6716477/detail/87194#pid=1340948

Ok. Between sleeping and servers being down this morning I haven't had a chance to even look at Denchet's Google doc. Just keep posting your kills here and either tonight or tomorrow morning a new thread will have the S&V progression updated.

I wouldn't mind starting and running a new progression thread. I already have the DPS one up and going though, so if anyone else wants to take over the new thread I'm more than willing to defer to them. Sad to see a good tank leaving Denchet. Was it a personal decision or one resulting from either current Shadow tank problems or the poor tuning of the DG (that fight very well may be killing this server, hopefully NIM S&V is tuned in such a way to lift the morale of the server).

LOL. To add to that, do not try cloaking out of Operation Chief's Terminate, he'll just start another cast immediately on a DPS (maybe offtank if they're pulling good threat). Also don't try Phase Walking back around the corner at the entrance during the Terminate cast, as soon as you get somewhat close to the boss he'll just start casting Terminate on you again. That guy is just hell bent on finishing a Terminate cast.

Well spotted. Fixed the post.