I can take a guess which bracket Jerc is in, and since he's submitting the questions I think we're fine.

Amelthea here (see how ******* annoying that is), If the game was balanced by touchy-feely essays, then you have some good points. However, the game is balanced by math and hard data, none of which you provide, most of which is above the community's capabilities (KeyboardNinja should roll a PT). Plain and simple, gap closing is part of the "skill ceiling" of this class. "Jet Charge is an ability that could put the toolkit of the PTs on par with the other melee classes" Funny how no one ever brings up Stealth Scan, Shoulder Cannon on sap-caps, OR BLOODY 10 AND 30 METER SPAMMABLE RANGED ATTACKS when comparing the "melee class" toolkits. There are already 5 other threads talking about jump4all, why was another one necessary?

"I have a level 52 Sin Tank, and i havent wasted the point for that talent, mainly because it's damn near useless in PvE" Sin tank pull is one of the most useful points in that tree. 9k threat as soon as a boss fight starts, that's what makes Sin tanks so good at snap threat. Being unwilling to use all the available tools for a class (Sin pull, HO...) does not mean the class isn't performing poorly. It means you're performing poorly. Now if we waste for a question asking for a jump4all, can we also ask to have an ability that resets the jump because Juggs can do that?

From KeyboardNinja's gearing thread: HM DF Build: {2800,{defense->707,shield->1233,absorb->861}} HM Average: {2800,{defense->517,shield->1333,absorb->950}} HM DP Build: {2800,{defense->452,shield->1367,absorb->981}} That's 17.2% defense for HM DP and 20.1% defense for HM DF. (18% defense chance averaging between the ops)

This is a PVP tank question I can get behind. Wording should be cleaned up so it doesn't come across as another VG "perception problem" question, but this is the correct direction to keep PVE Shield Tech unchanged. Couple things: I primarily playing a PT tank in endgame PVE content, I'd rather lose Jet Charge than lose Hydraulic Overrides. That's our mechanic cheeser over Shroud and Saber Reflect. Get off the gap-closer for everyone idea. I understand why people want Shoulder Cannon to be more consistent damage (at least for PVE). The sacrifices though aren't just PVP burst, this change to Shoulder Cannon would mess with the overall PVE tank balance (which is in a spectacular place right now). Right now, you can use 4 Shoulder Cannon missiles every 1:50 to heal for a total of 20% max health. 78s put a PT tank at ~44k health, so 0.2*44 = 8.8k healing. Divide by 110 seconds and we currently have Shoulder Cannon healing an average of 80 HPS. Putting Shoulder Cannon on a 10 second CD would up a PTs healing to 220 HPS. That's an imbalance that would need to be corrected in a way we won't like. Think about removing the RNG from Pyro. If that happens then Pyro is a 4 button rotation that now requires no thought or reaction to procs. If you want Pyro to play like a Speak & Spell, sure keep asking for RNG to be removed. The threat on PT grapple is annoyingly low as a tank (don't even bother using it for threat, Jet Charge has higher threat). Remember this is due to DPS having the grapple, and DPS not necessarily wanting 9k threat immediately when pulling something for mechanical reasons (NIM Kephess bombers). I do wish this would be addressed either by a Shield Tech talent or a modification from Ion Gas Cylinder. Shield Tech talents require you to shield an attack. Perhaps it's not an issue of the tree being wrong, but your gear being wrong (I run 18% defense chance with full 78s and stim). I ran the numbers last summer, assuming equal post-mitigation damage, your gearing can make you take between 2850 and 3150 DTPS from melee/ranged attacks. Compare that spread to the 2400 to 3600 DTPS spread you take from force/tech attacks depending on how you gear. I think I've seen KeyboardNinja's numbers for PTs even turn away from defense now. Just in general, it doesn't matter if you only PVE or only PVP and don't care about the other. Fact is, developers will not break the balance in one area just so you can be happy in the other.

This is a very good point, and I think it's worth pursuing in our questions. So far, the PVP question will focus on the tank tree. PVE tanking is 100% fine as is despite silly claims about not being NIM worthy, so I still think getting a set bonus tweak is the route to go. The PVE question seems split between "Why don't we parse high?" and "Why is it so hard to get uptime on mobile bosses." I have a thought for the latter question. Free jumps could screw with PVP balance (Being able to grapple-jump to a white barred healer is a bad idea, if you want the healer next to you then you should not have white barred them), so let's play into our best DPS ability: being medium-ranged DPS. Pyro can run a 95% optimal rotation at 10m, and AP only needs 2 attacks in a 10 attack rotation to be at 4m. This makes kiting stuff and moving 15-20 meters for boss jumps pretty easy. What kills our DPS is the 20-30 meter runs. Similar to how Merc's get Power Surge to help with mobile DPS, PTs could get a similar ability that allows 1 Flame Burst or Immolate to be 30m range, on a 1.5 minute CD (I think that's the CD for Power Surge). Remember language counts in these questions. "What do your metrics show for PVE DPS?" will get a significantly better response than "We need an increase in PVE DPS."

Let's not waste another question asking for a DCD that the devs have already said we won't get. Here's a quick rundown of the situation for PT survivability that could warrant a new DCD: PVP Tanking - Compared to Sin and Jugg tank, there's some merit to needing more cooldowns PVP AP - People would not have run AP in tank stance if AP didn't provide enough survivability (DR when stunned or AOEd) PVP Pyro - Let's keep it a secret how insane Kolto Overload is in this spec, combined with Pyro Shield and the threat drop PVE Tanking - I hope nothing is ever changed from the current balance of PVE tanking. All 3 classes are great and have the situations they're best in. PVE AP - See PVP section, and you're doing better than Operative DPS PVE Pyro - See PVP section, and you're doing better than Operative DPS Am I glossing over PVE DPS survivability? Absolutely, you have Energy Shield and heavy armor, what more do you need to survive in PVE? This means every complaint about needing another defensive cooldown is based in PVP Tanking. Buffing that one aspect at the class level will throw out PVE tank balance, and lead to PVP Pyro being the next FOTM up for nerf. How do we help PVP Tanks then? Set bonus. That's the route we should be looking instead of rehashing the old Vanguard question of "Can we have another DCD?" I have two issues I'd like to bring into discussion. Neither are crucial to our class but they do relate to the overall Pub/Imp balancing. Issue 1: Vanguard or Commando Hammer Shot hits a target with 7 separate attacks. Powertech Rapid Shots hits a target with 5 separate attacks and Merc Rapid Shots hits a target with 10 separate attacks. I don't want to break out the math, but this gives Powertech's easily the lowest chance of any Pyro class to trigger CGC, and it gives PT tanks about a 10% lower chance to trigger IGC (lowering Heat Blast's CD) than Vanguard tanks. I would like to ask if they could set the cylinders up in a way that results in all of the final probabilities coming out the same. Issue 2: Take this opportunity to ask what's up with legacy weapons. Right now Mara's and Sent's can send both mainhand and offhand over. PT's and VG's can't send any weapons across.

This, many times over. It was a pretty drastic change going from pre-2.0 Hybrid to current Immortal, and I've fallen asleep at the wheel many times since 2.0.

It's statements like these that really answer the OP's question. I would argue that in a lot of cases Juggs have AOE threat miles ahead of PT or Sin. Saber Reflect is up every time you take adds on NIM Thrasher and HM Corrupter 0, which means you'll hold aggro on those adds and have a better time surviving them. Same goes for mobility, I hate phase 1 of NIM Terror on my Jugg since I have no speed burst to escape adds, but if there are friendly or enemy targets to jump to in a fight I have the best mobility. Things like threat, mobility, utility, and even mitigation are highly situational. The point being, all 3 tank classes are completely viable, and each brings a unique approach to mechanics.

What ******* DPS were you running with that let Fascinate pull the highest threat?

Force Cloaking on Terminate FTW.

You won the argument right there. But, I don't think anyone has seen you this riled up in a long time so I'll continue on. Clearing bosses certainly gives merit to individual players. I'd take any Hatred or Aurum A team raider in my guild any day because they know how to get a whole raid working together at peak capacity. That's not to say I think all of those raiders are performing at the cap of their class. The comments on Dulfy being an above-average healer (what people really mean when they say someone sucks in a game, when said person has shown they're more than capable of doing the job) are something that both Sorc healers I used to run with have echoed. Does she work well within your team? Absolutely. You clear content ahead of everyone else due to about 70% teamwork, 20% free time, and 10% individual skill. That teamwork makes up for mistakes like hitting Endure Pain at 50% HP, or blowing Saber Reflect before Brontes' 50% transition phase. And if you were to whisper me for a spot in Hatred I'd politely decline. Running with some goods friends in my current guild beats out anything else, including what I hear is a huge amount of guild drama.

Then who's playing Pyrotec in that video?

It's the same reason I watch and sit there wondering what he's doing half the time (what does he have against Force Scream? Is he AFK during the second Hands phase?). You guys clear content by man hours and having great team work and coordination. Guys like me (and maybe the guy who slammed Dulfy) eventually clear content with a less strong group by knowing every detail of our class.

In before the Juggs who actually DPS. Gorthog - Jugg - 4-36-6 Vengeance FOTM - 3135 DPS on the 1 mil dummy. http://www.torparse.com/a/577072/time/1391537436/1391537755/0/Damage+Dealt 78 hilts, comms ear and implants, rest is 72s. I was hovering around 2700 last night, I revise my 2 year old opinion that Juggs can't DPS. (And seriously, *** is going on with the rotation under 30%?)

I may as well piggy back on this thread for odd TFB HM behavior. 16 man HM TFB, second phase we were killing left tentacle then right when I noticed the tentacles were gaining the Hypergate Alacrity buff that I thought was a Nightmare mechanic (I tank this fight most of the time, so I could just be mental). Screenshot

Ah there it is. Went and tested it, didn't realize you could get 30 meter Force Lightning range, crit on all 4 ticks, and still only lose 1 charge of Recklessness. Also the threat per GCD of a Recklessness Force Lightning is equal to the threat of an Energized Shock with Recklessness (~6.7k in 72s), but you get that over 2 GCDs of Force Lightning. Thanks for the explanation Thok and KBN.

I don't always force push the one-shot robots, but when I do I aim for this guy.

Did not know the Force Lightning crits beat out Wither. Still, don't you waste a Recklessness stack just by activating Force Lightning (for the 30m range)? If you use Recklessness for Wither + Shock, both double shocks will crit off the last Recklessness stack, leaving none to waste. Mid fight, should I be looking to use Recklessness for DPS increase, or as a tool to keep up my Dark Protection stacks through mechanics that put me outside 10 meters?

I agree on this, but other than possibly needing a 10+ meter force lightning, why wouldn't you pop Recklessness before the first Wither? If it all goes well, you get a Wither crit and an Energized Shock auto-crit that does massive threat (and even more if you get a lucky Chain Shock).

What's the reasoning behind using Recklessness right before your first Force Lightning?

Do you at least offer breakfast the next morning to all these one night stand raiders?

So I know this is a bit of a necro post, but are you accounting for Soresu Form stating it "reduces all damage taken by 6%" (tooltip), and Ion Gas Cylinder Gas Cylinder stating it "decreases all damage taken by 5%" (tooltip)? In comparison, Dark Charge's only mitigation increases are armor rating and shield chance (tooltip).