I PVP as Rage, and used to raid as Vengeance. But seeing how we got the shaft on raid PVE DPS (why ever take a jugg over a marauder?) i went Immortal for raiding now. To level up, flash points and soloing, i find Rage better. The AOE smash in Flashpoint is so strong, I do the bulk of the damage in Flashpoints. To solo Heroic +2 quests at lvl 50 (dailies) I keep my rage spec and put on tanking gear. There isn't a single Heroic +2 i cannot do on belsavis, ilum and Blackhole

In my experience, ganking while leveling is a positive experience to improve your pvp skills. Of course it can be unpleasant especially if you are being camped, but there is always something you can learn from a pvp encounter and I was always grateful for that. When they really pissed me off, i wrote down their names and got them back later after being lvl 50 and geared

Here is something i wrote in a different thread: Here for you to start gearing with the right spec: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...7-907520d98539 Spec: This is the optimal Rage spec in terms of damage dealing. It is with this spec you will top the charts. It is as basic as it is advanced so anyone can use it. Keep in mind there is an alternate Rage spec focused on survivability while losing a tiny bit of damage. However that is a very advanced spec which require a lot of gear grinding and I will not be posting this spec here. Gear: The gear grind is fairly simple: 1- Get all 67 Datacrons while you queue up for Warzones: http://ca.ign.com/wikis/star-wars-th...cron_Locations 2- Get full BM gear. Augment your main battlemaster pieces, since you will have them for a long time using the +18 strength and + 12 endurance. This include Main and off hand weapons, head, chest, gloves, boots and pants 3- Start by getting the War Hero off pieces + augment them. This includes: ear piece, implants, relics 4- Finish with the War hero main pieces + augment them. You do not have to worry about stats as you gear yourself in that order. The Full war hero set is well balanced. It is not optimized for the rage spec, it can be tuned later on. Much later on. So don't worry about this for now. Rotation: Here is something i posted in a previous thread: This is how you play it: You build Shockwave stacks (4), leap or obliterate to a target (preferably where there are many enemies bunched up) then SMASH the trash. Make sure you know what builds shockwave: Enrage, Force crush, force Choke This spec allows you to be mobile and unload your burst very quickly then control your target for 5 secs and build up new shockwave. The trick to this spec is patience. Even if you have 4 stacks of shockwave and you leap, you don't have to use them right away. Yes you will loose the +10% damage from charge buff, but it's more optimal to walk to a pack of 3-4 people and then smash. Plus people often knock you back after a charge, screwing up your smash. Crewskill: These are mine: Biochem = Re-usable Rakata Stim and re-usable Might Stim. Unfortunately adrenals are not usable anymore in PVP. Slicing = For credits. Credits buys gear and items for both PVP and PVE Scavenging = For lvl 3 mats to send to my lowbie Cybertech alt to craft seismic and freeze grenades! Use them on your Jugg. BTW diplomacy and bioanalysis are useless once you have maxed out Biochem. Just to give you an exemple of my rotation vs a healer 1v1 : 1- Charge + pop Enrage (builds 4 shockwave) + Smash + force scream + Force crush Interupt his 1st heal (beware of jukers always) + Ravage (the target is extremely slowed from force crush) 2- Obliterate + Smash + Force Scream 3- Force Choke (4 sec cast builds 4 stacks of shockwave) + force push (this part is important because the healer is desperately trying to heal himself after the burst you just did and successfully interrupted his 1st heal) 4- Charge + smash + scream + force crush Interrupt his 2nd Heal (beware of jukers) + ravage (the target is again slowed by force crush) In case the healer is not dead or you messed up the interrupts, you still have 2 important tools; 1- FEAR : Use it to buy time for your attacks to be ready 2- Crafted cryo grenades/seismic grenades, CC for 4 secs You play this in Shii-cho stance. You need the +6% force damage and increase armor pen for your force scream + smash. Also better rage regen. If your healer is being focussed start by taunting the enemies on him and and use intervene on him. This will reduce their damage by 20% and 30%. If it gets out of hand, go Soresu stances and guard him + taunt + intervene. Since we are quite squishy, i use intervene alot. The reason is that it allows me to use intervene + charge often. So yes i jump everywhere. here are the advantages in doing that: 1- Enemies focussing you often lose interest when you get out of range, they will simply target whoever is the closest. That is really the main reason. Use it to reset the fight after they have popped their cooldowns. 2- Gives your healer a frequent 20% damage reduction + Builds rage when you Charge

Here is something i posted in my Jugg guide: 6.0 Vindicator Gear Basically when your War Hero Vindicator set is fully augmented, you stand at a point where you will always face a tradeoff every time you modify something. I have simulated many different mod and enhancement changes and the gain in Power always comes with a loss in strength, crit and endurance. The tolerable available changes in gear are as follows: Accuracy: Can be modified to have +5%. Anything extra should be replaced with Power. Crit: Crit can be greatly diminished and replaced by Power. SMASH is auto-crit so it is not influenced by crit.

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes? In PVE: Useless if not specced into Immortal and replacable if specced into Immortal... Vicious circle right there. In PVP: Powerfull if specced into Rage, usefull if specced into Immortal but still replacable, terrible if specced into Vengeance 2. How do you perceive your own spec? PVP Rage: Great spec damage wise and this is one of the best spec in the game. Good mobility. Survivability is incredibly low and should be improved. Endure pain: Very limited use in PVP. But i guess we all need one bad ability so this we can deal with. Enraged defense: This is a totally unacceptable ability. Not only does it cost a huge amount of rage to activate AND to maintain, the benefit from it is pathetic. Under no circumstance this ability is worth using ever. It is a rage drain for no benefit. Suggested change: Heals for 3% of maximum HP WITHOUT HAVING TO TAKE DAMAGE over 10 secs, no rage costs associated with it. This should be baseline. Should still be improved in the vengeance tree as it is now. This ability being on a 1 min cooldown would put us to par with Marauders in terms of survivability. Because let's face it, marauders are basically our brother class, yet they deal more damage and mitigate more damage than we do with Heavy armor. PVE Vengeance spec: The damage is just not enough. Even with a near perfect rotation, I can fall short of marauders clicking any button. There is no need for a Jugg when marauders are available. Vengeance depend a lot on kinetic attacks. An increase in armor penetration in that tree is needed or a pure boost in the base abilities themselves. Juggs should be able to push the armor pen reduction over the 20% maximum with sunder armor. This would bring value to bringing a Jugg in the group, since nobody has that buff.

Here for you to start gearing with the right spec: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/22939ada-86fb-48ee-87a7-907520d98539 Spec: This is the optimal Rage spec in terms of damage dealing. It is with this spec you will top the charts. It is as basic as it is advanced so anyone can use it. Keep in mind there is an alternate Rage spec focused on survivability while losing a tiny bit of damage. However that is a very advanced spec which require a lot of gear grinding and I will not be posting this spec here. Gear: The gear grind is fairly simple: 1- Get all 67 Datacrons while you queue up for Warzones: http://ca.ign.com/wikis/star-wars-the-old-republic/Datacron_Locations 2- Get full BM gear. Augment your main battlemaster pieces, since you will have them for a long time using the +18 strength and + 12 endurance. This include Main and off hand weapons, head, chest, gloves, boots and pants 3- Start by getting the War Hero off pieces + augment them. This includes: ear piece, implants, relics 4- Finish with the War hero main pieces + augment them. You do not have to worry about stats as you gear yourself in that order. The Full war hero set is well balanced. It is not optimized for the rage spec, it can be tuned later on. Much later on. So don't worry about this for now. Rotation: Here is something i posted in a previous thread: This is how you play it: You build Shockwave stacks (4), leap or obliterate to a target (preferably where there are many enemies bunched up) then SMASH the trash. Make sure you know what builds shockwave: Enrage, Force crush, force Choke This spec allows you to be mobile and unload your burst very quickly then control your target for 5 secs and build up new shockwave. The trick to this spec is patience. Even if you have 4 stacks of shockwave and you leap, you don't have to use them right away. Yes you will loose the +10% damage from charge buff, but it's more optimal to walk to a pack of 3-4 people and then smash. Plus people often knock you back after a charge, screwing up your smash. Crewskill: These are mine: Biochem = Re-usable Rakata Stim and re-usable Might Stim. Unfortunately adrenals are not usable anymore in PVP. Slicing = For credits. Credits buys gear and items for both PVP and PVE Scavenging = For lvl 3 mats to send to my lowbie Cybertech alt to craft seismic and freeze grenades! Use them on your Jugg. BTW diplomacy and bioanalysis are useless once you have maxed out Biochem. Just to give you an exemple of my rotation vs a healer 1v1 : 1- Charge + pop Enrage (builds 4 shockwave) + Smash + force scream + Force crush Interupt his 1st heal (beware of jukers always) + Ravage (the target is extremely slowed from force crush) 2- Obliterate + Smash + Force Scream 3- Force Choke (4 sec cast builds 4 stacks of shockwave) + force push (this part is important because the healer is desperately trying to heal himself after the burst you just did and successfully interrupted his 1st heal) 4- Charge + smash + scream + force crush Interrupt his 2nd Heal (beware of jukers) + ravage (the target is again slowed by force crush) In case the healer is not dead or you messed up the interrupts, you still have 2 important tools; 1- FEAR : Use it to buy time for your attacks to be ready 2- Crafted cryo grenades/seismic grenades, CC for 4 secs You play this in Chi-cho stance. You need the +6% force damage and increase armor pen for your force scream + smash. Also better rage regen. If your healer is being focussed start by taunting the enemies on him and and use intervene on him. This will reduce their damage by 20% and 30%. If it gets out of hand, go Soresu stances and guard him + taunt + intervene. Since we are quite squishy, i use intervene alot. The reason is that it allows me to use intervene + charge often. So yes i jump everywhere. here are the advantages in doing that: 1- Enemies focussing you often lose interest when you get out of range, they will simply target whoever is the closest. That is really the main reason. Use it to reset the fight after they have popped their cooldowns. 2- Gives your healer a frequent 20% damage reduction + Builds rage when you Charge

hehe i played a DK and it was the exact same thing. Charging to a target + going behind him can only be a gain for you and a loss for the target. Confuse him, use the extra uptime to take less damage while killing him. If people really want to see how this looks, simply look up WOW rogue duelling or arena videos on youtube. Some of them were just amazing at that backstab dance. Try to replicate that

Stick to Rage the entire time. Practice your smash and trash all the way to lvl 50. If you are lvl 17 and you hit for 3.6k and do 180k damage in WZ, that is pretty good. Why change that?

Always works fine here. I do it while moving but it is harder. It is a very sensitive ability. 5 meters is actually not big. Any form of knockback will completely screw it up

Melee starts at 90% and force at 100% For PVP: Melee needs to be at 95% and force at 105% For PVE Melee needs to be at 100% and force at 110% 108% was from WOW. If you want to answer that question it is fairly simple. Go there and download the Microsoft excel document called DPS craft: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Forum-Sith-Warrior-and-Jedi-Knight Plug in your current starts in INPUT mode. It will give you a spreadsheet with different stats values compared to attack power. Basically every time you pick up an item you can calculate its value by translating it into power values, making the items comparable. In the spreadsheet, the highest value is the stat you want to prioritize. Some values do change the more you have. Ex: Accuracy, crit and surge

I'll repeat what we already told you in a previous thread. Dated from 6 months ago.

You forgot something. C) They call others cheaters. This thread is full of them. It's quite entertaining to read their bad stories. P.S. Hey i've seen you in WZs lol

Hi, About the gear, it's strictly the Vindicator gear that you want to purchase. If you are farming the BM gear, go ahead and buy them all. Since you need the pieces for the War Hero anyway. Start by getting the main pieces first. Then some pieces of War Hero can be bough without the BM gear. Go straight for them, don't get the BM ones first. About your spec: You should take 1 point out of enraged sunder and put it in Unyielding instead. Given the high amount of CC in PVP, i find that to be a must. Initially i ran with 2/2 and i liked it. Now i run 1/2 and sometimes i feel like going back.

No he's not cheating. And your reasoning is even worst.

No, enough with the cheats. There is no such thing anymore. Move along, move along please. There has to be something you did not see during the fight. Perhaps he did CC break only one of them. It doesn't take much to break CC. A simple DOT will.

Juggs just have one. Can't confirm for marauders. We do have an ability called Enraged defense that can be activated while CCed, but it just heals a little bit while taking damage. What you probably saw was one of your teammate breaking CC.

It only took 1 person to say Backpedalling could be OK in a situation in Voidstar, and now noobs like this guy are adding more and more because they backpedal all the time. Here are additional things that have not been said, which i believe are quite important. Melee vs Melee: A LOT of melee players backpedal while facing another melee. That is wrong! No matter what situation you are in, it is wrong. A good melee will run right through you, jump and 180 so that he is behind you and spam his abilities. This allows him to confuse you, and make you waste your globals because they cannot be casted since you are not facing the target. Melee vs Range: From the perspective of the melee character: Same thing, go through the caster, go behind him. It works even better than vs a melee. From the perspective of the ranged. You run forward around the pillar. If there's no pillar : What are you doing away from a pillar? A ranged class will never get away from a melee with backpedals. A ranged class should be positioned so that if a melee comes and sit on him, he will be out of range or LOS from his healer. Easy kill... There's no need to run away from him in that situation. The thing with unbinding it is fairly simple. Human beings are lazy. If you have it binded, you will simply use it too often. An old trick I found in WOW to get rid of that bad habit is to level up an alt while not binding backpedalling. Initially it is weird, but it doesn't take long to get used to it. Then when you are ready, remove it on your main.

Both rage trees are very similar. In making your decision, assume they are the same and look for more specific differences elsewhere. As for dual Rage spec. Yes it is intense. If you and your friend decide to both use Rage specs, no matter the class, you will have a lot of fun. Especially if you guys focus fire on vent, you guys can kill a healer in 2-3 globals. 1st global: smash for 5k each 2nd global: Scream for 3k+ crit 3rd global: Vicious throw to finish him. What you will find very entertaining in killing healers, is that enemies with low HP will often run to their healer in order to get healed. Make sure when you smash you give a quick look around for a low HP bar moving towards the healer and if so, include him in your smash. From what you are saying, you have already made your choice with the marauder. Go with it, it does not stop you one bit from taking part in the Rage stuff we have been discussing here. To give you my honest opinion, whether you pick Jugg or Mara, teams will accept you just as much either way. If you have a close healer friend, he will prefer the Jugg since you have multiple defensive abilities to help him out. The Mara has a lot of defensive abilities to help himself out. If you ever wonder why I picked Jugg initially it's because I used to play a Death Knight in WOW. It was an OP class right from the start but then got demolished over and over by the devs. My arena spot was extremely limited. So i decided to take a class I though was less OP at the start to stay away from the nerf bat as much as possible. But now i actually like my role of burster + protector.

Yeah i agree for enraged defense, that thing is an abomination of a skill. I've yet to see a situation where this is usefull. But for intervene you said it yourself, Juggs have a specific spot in a team because they can burst and defend people. And intervene is a big part of defense. It can be used to reduce damage and also to get in guard range and aiding the focussed player. Force camo and undying rage are 2 great talents in a 1v1 fight, that is for sure. But beside staying alive longer to prevent people from capping nodes, it brings less to the team than intervene. But this is really a matter of choice at this point. I would be extremely curious how team comps would turn out if arena PVP came out. I see the Jugg's ability to defend healers and it's good mobility surpassing the need for a marauder in a team.

There's already such videos. in fact a full series. I named them Gods of the arena. My toon is called Gannicus. Look for backpedalling in there. About Smash, yes it does auto-crit if used after charge and obliterate.

Here is what I posted in your thread on the PVP forum It was an entertaining movie to watch. I play Rage jugg and it is always fun to see the spec style form an outside view. That being said, there are things you do, that you should really change to improve your efficiency. 1- Clipping of shockwave: Sometimes you Smash with less than 4 stacks of Shockwave and sometimes you use Crush and Choke at the same time. I get mad at myself every time i waste a single shockwave tick. In the long run of a WZ it really makes a difference. Lets say because of that you are stuck at 2 stacks of Shockwave, what do you do? Either you hit Smash and do some damage (lower than it would have been with good shockwave management) or wait for the next opportunity to build Shockwave (miss a full smash). Either way it's a loss. 2- Why use obliterate right after charge. Basically you waste rage by using obliterate, you waste your charge +10% damage buff by not smashing within 5 secs. You will need that Obliterate free-smash-crit if you are stuck melee range in the next few seconds of the fight. Extremely frequent vs Marauders. After a charge + force crush, Ravage is a much better filler. It doesn't cost rage, hits harder and you still have obliterate to close the gap + speed boost if necessary. 3- The positioning wasn't great either. I saw some backpeddaling while already being in front of the target and I don't recall seeing you ever go behind a target. People can't damage you if you are behind them, why not help out your healers? Beside they can't CC you if you are behind either. It was my opinion of your video, you can either take it or leave it. I commented it simply to inform newcomers on this forum and give them stuff to look for. I'm not bashing your video at all.

It was an entertaining movie to watch. I play Rage jugg and it is always fun to see the spec style form an outside view. That being said, there are things you do, that you should really change to improve your efficiency. 1- Clipping of shockwave: Sometimes you Smash with less than 4 stacks of Shockwave and sometimes you use Crush and Choke at the same time. I get mad at myself every time i waste a single shockwave tick. In the long run of a WZ it really makes a difference. Lets say because of that you are stuck at 2 stacks of Shockwave, what do you do? Either you hit Smash and do some damage (lower than it would have been with good shockwave management) or wait for the next opportunity to build Shockwave (miss a full smash). Either way it's a loss. 2- Why use obliterate right after charge. Basically you waste rage by using obliterate, you waste your charge +10% damage buff by not smashing within 5 secs. You will need that Obliterate free-smash-crit if you are stuck melee range in the next few seconds of the fight. Extremely frequent vs Marauders. After a charge + force crush, Ravage is a much better filler. It doesn't cost rage, hits harder and you still have obliterate to close the gap + speed boost if necessary. 3- The positioning wasn't great either. I saw some backpeddaling while already being in front of the target and I don't recall seeing you ever go behind a target. People can't damage you if you are behind them, why not help out your healers? Beside they can't CC you if you are behind either. It was my opinion of your video, you can either take it or leave it. I commented it simply to inform newcomers on this forum and give them stuff to look for. I'm not bashing your video at all.

In ranked there is no such thing as a ball carrier, only ball passers. Speccing tank in ranked is a waste of a damage dealer. And I've yet to see someone take the ball in the middle and score it. But what I do often is 3 passes and score within 10 secs . But people just don't understand that when your resolve bar is full (so their team most likely abused their CC on you) it's time to pass the ball. Forget the extra 5-10 yards. Pass the ball to someone else, and slow the hell out of the people on you. That's nothing new, its all written in Huttball 101. I will even go as far as saying Huttball is the WZ i care the less about my resolve bar. I never walk over fire. I either charge, intervene and pass. Now to think of it, maybe people should even disable their Forward key ( W ) in that WZ. It would really be more efficient for the team.

I disagree with the idea of making it invisible, here is why: I do agree in WOW this was an important feature. But comparing WOW arena vs SWTOR ranked WZ in terms of chain CC, that is just impossible. It took weeks for a good 3v3 team to flawlessly develop perfect CC chaining. It will never happen in 8v8 warzones. Besides, WOW diminishing returns were specific to CC classes. In SWTOR, all CCs are counted as one practically. So really I don't understand how people can even think to whining about the resolve bar. I'm coming from a TSG team and the resolve system is like a gift to my melee character. It is definitely the best CC immunity system I've seen in PVP MMO.

Vengeance is great for PVE, especially vs raid bosses. I never said the contrary. I use it myself in every raid and I still top charts. As for PVP, IT IS GARBAGE. Sorry to break this to you. It's pretty much in the bottom 3 PVP specs in the game.If you don't call this garbage, what is garbage? Here is how i see classify specs and it is pretty straight forward: Good: SPEC makes ranked teams comps OP. Basically when you are asked by a ranked team to join them, they want your SPEC. They will take an OK player with the right spec over a good player with a bad spec. Average: You get accepted in ranked teams for your current spec and do just fine. Nor extraordinary or nor bad. Bad (trash): You are refused in a ranked team with your current spec. This is where Vengeance fits in. Sorry folks. I've never seen a Vengeance Jugg in a proper rated teams. This means something guys. Remember one thing. In serious PVP you do not choose your specs nor your team comps. This was like that in WOW and it is the same here since rated has started. Here is the current best team comp: 2 Healers 2 jugg rage 2 PT 2 Marauders (any spec pretty much does here) How do you expect to beat the massive 5-6k crits, AOE, insane mobility from jugg and marauders and insane guarding from jugg and PT. They whatever you want vs this comp. But equally geared and skill, you don't stand a chance unless you have something similar. If you don't believe me, please read up the PVP forum. Half the threads are about nerfs to PT/Vanguards and the OPness of the team comp i just listed. I really can help some of you who want to become better. I don't mind taking the time either. But if you are someone who is too arrogant and wants to play Vengeance and try to prove something, at least just say it you are not trying to be as good as possible. Say it you just want to play casually and that you like the tree. But recommending this spec to someone asking about help on PVP jugg is plain wrong.