Haha. Awesome, considering that you have changed your topic mid-thread! You initially came here to cry about an alleged mechanic that automatically gave a tie to the first defender, and to urge BW to "Fix Voidstar." When it was pointed out to you that you were wrong, and the tiebreaker is random, you stubbornly refused to budge, instead insisting that in 1.2 somehow the first defenders ALWAYS win. So your initial topic was based on faulty information. Once the proper mechanics were explained to you multiple times, you started to cry about the (correct) mechanic that randomly chooses a winner in a tiebreaker. The problem is, you have not offered an intelligent and workable solution. So don't cry about staying on topic. It seems like you are simply upset that you lost (perhaps your premade lost to a pug), and you want BW to make up for your noobery. Get over it. If you take a closer look, the fact is that everyone who has seen your image pretty much agrees that the reason you lost that game was noobery, not mechanics. Therefore, what you see as trolling, we see as the real issue behind your post, that you are simply to angry to acknowledge: you lost because you failed, not because the mechanics did.

Ok, I'll bite and address your straw man, with the caveat that it is still your fault that you lost in the scenario above. The ONLY time I could see a team simply refuse to attack is if they were outmatched, outgeared, and/or outnumbered, and were simply being farmed the entire game to the point their will was completely broken and just wanted to hang on and leave their fate up to the RNG gods. But if that was indeed the case, HOW DID THEY MANAGE TO KEEP YOU SCORELESS!?!!? If the team is so beaten down to the point they refuse to attack, but they still held you on D, then you only have your own noobery to blame.

Looks like a premade got pwned by a pug. Quick! Somebody get this guy a tissue!

It's random. Agreed. If you look at the kills/deaths disparity, the OP 's team should have easily won. Perhaps next time you should focus more on objectives and less on padding your stats.

According to recent financial reports, SWTOR has lost 24% of its subscribers since December. Put another way, 400,000 people unsubscribed, bringing the total number of active subscriptions worldwide from 1.7 million to 1.3 million: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-sales-beat-targets-star-wars-takes-hit-2012-05-07?dist=afterbell I have hundreds of complaints about this game; I could take the next few hours and compile a list of the many failures of Bioware, but I, and the rest of the 1.3 million subscribers (with more dropping out daily), have been willing to overlook these so far. But there is one issue that will single-handedly sink this game if not immediately rectified: there are way too many empty servers! An MMO without a community is not an MMO, and certainly not worth $15/month. My server is completely dead: it is not uncommon to have LESS than 10 level 50's in the Republic Fleet (although to be fair, the Imperial Fleet has considerably more (usually 4-5 times as many people)). Queue times commonly approach 20 minutes. I regularly spend more time in the fleet waiting in the queues than in actual WZs while attempting to complete my daily. 1.2 killed off a lot of our player base. Asia-Pacific transfers almost wiped out the server. So, what are your plans to a) retain your current player base; b) entice the 400,000 former-subscribers to renew; and c) successfully market this game to new customers and convert them into active subscribers? You have a plan right? Right? /signed These queues are getting lonely.

Truth.

Progression =/= better gear. Moving up the rankings = progression. People that demand "progression" gear in pvp = not real pvpers.

This could just be me, but based on these screenshots he looks like a mouse clicker.

This dude is clearly in over his head. But he is providing winning quotes.

Does this remind anyone else of Napoleon Dynamite?

You play a lot. Cheers. Wasn't me. Nope. Persistence and butt-kickings? Also known as afking and botting? Please. You play alot. You have gear. If you also had skill, you wouldn't be crying about gear, or about the nerf. Rofl. This is pure gold!

LOL post of the year.

Now you're just making stuff up and spouting nonsense. It looks like this thread has been officially hijacked.

A well-reasoned and thoughtful post, if I ever saw one! 40 WZ's a day - And you say this isn't about gear? Please.

I must have missed the official MMO bible which clearly says "In an MMO, progression is superior to fairness in pvp. Any argument to the contrary is blasphemy!" My point is the same. If you personally play this game for character progression, more power to you. The Flashpoint is that way ----------->.

I see the big picture just fine, you are just unable to view this game through my paradigm, or any paradigm other than your own. You have a grind-it-out-carrot-on-a-stick PVE mentality and you really don't understand the pulse of the PVP community - defined for your benefit as simply as people who PVP because they like PVP, not people who PVP for external rewards. Then don't. If anything, YOU are failing to think outside of the box. Think about it. No, really. Your pre-conceived notion is that an MMO MUST have external gear progression in both PVE and PVP. That is the box. That is your bias, not fact, and it is not a bias shared by the PVP community. Then why does it have to be gear? Why can't it be a title? Or a speeder? A ranking on a website? Why gear? Explain why it has to be gear which provides you an advantage, without sounding like you are bad at pvp.

All I hear is I <3 PVE. But seriously, why so mad? Calm down a little bit. I know that the prospects of losing your gear crutch in PVP is scary, but let's leave the name-calling at high school, ok? Anyway, it's hard to respond to such an incoherent post, but I'll try: No. No. Are these my only two options? Btw why are you bringing up PVE? This is a thread about PVP. Is it your contention that people must PVE in order to PVP? Bizarre, but ok. Nope, I don't PVE. I won't bother to address the gross generalization that was confusingly written, makes no sense, and is not grounded in verifiable facts. or Are these my only two options? If these are the only two types of PVPers you see, you really don't PVP much do you? You expect people to do 30 Warzones a day, just to be able to compete? Lol no wonder you are so threatened by these changes that will no longer allow you to hide behind a gear advantage.

Why does "character progression" have to = a distinct gear advantage? It sounds like PVE would be a better place for you. Character progression could also be exclusive titles, mounts, or even a ranking system. Stop hiding behind the character progression argument. Either you are a PVE'er and simply can't fathom the idea of playing a game without the incentive of "phat loot," or else you are just bad, and can't fathom the idea of being exposed without a gear advantage. Either way you probably don't belong in a thread about PVP.

Nice straw man argument - sure, a fresh 50 could beat a one-armed mouse-clicker in full BM gear, but a skilled PVPer in fresh 50 gear will stand virtually no chance against a mediocre player in full BM gear. Perhaps you have deluded yourself into thinking you are amazing because you enjoy a gear advantage. This is your opinion, and one not shared by many in the PVP community. You do seem to have the pulse of the PVE/Carebear community, however. You have to work for it? You mean grind? If you love grinding so much, stick to PVE please. This is exactly what this is about. It isn't a double standard, because your comparison fails on multiple levels. Comparing the PVE progression to PVP progression is just plain silly. These have been distinguished repeatedly in this thread and elsewhere. If you can't grasp the differences, then I don't know what else to tell you. Blindly crying about a "double standard" just outs you as a PVE'er.

Spoken like a true PVE'er: "What's the point of playing if I don't get better gear that enables me to steamroll lesser-geared but better-skilled players?" You just don't get it, and probably never will.

Look, for the most part we aren't arguing about the status quo, gear doesn't take too long to obtain (although YMMV depending on your server, and I would like to be able to avoid repeating the initial pvp grind for alts). We are arguing against any future implementation of gear-based PVP rewards. In other words, we are responding to the OP.

This.

That is the difference between you and the people who want gear for grinding.

Nobody is arguing this. I think you actually agree with us (even if you don't think you do). Read the original poster and I think it will all make sense. He was crying that gear won't be rewarded for pvp grinders. We are arguing that gear-based pvp rewards are bad. The end. Some of your posts seem to agree with this.

This.