Payneintherear
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Posts posted by Payneintherear
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What you need to understand here is that when Boarg says that he has parsed his average damage and that 27% of his total average damage is contributed by internal damage attacks, that the very reason for actually making up 27% of his total damage is the fact that they deal internal damage and are, on average, mitigated quite a bit less than kinetic attacks.
Infiltration does not have access to more internal damage abilities than other dps specs, in fact. Yet it has very, very limited armor penetration.
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I do feel bad for sorcs, with the new TTKs they really do get the short end of the stick.
Couldn't most classes do this to a sorc though? I'm pretty sure my sniper (granted, it's a lower level bracket) could probably drop a sorc in around 7 seconds if he had an adrenal and got the RNG that the pyro did in that log. Seems to me that most single target burst classes could do that. Maybe 1 extra global.
Am I wrong?
*edit*
Just caught up and realized you were already discussing that question, lawl. As you were!
You probably could do that in the lower level bracket on your sniper. People also wear different gear in the lower brackets and they have half the HPs of what that PT deals to the Sorc, before the Sorc dies.
No other class could ever dish out that kind of damage.
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Sorry, point out the sentence when I said one sample where everything crits proves something other than that critting on every attack is nice?
Go dig up logs of people doing the same. Start with a Sage, perhaps. You can use Force Potency and get 3 guaranteed crits (almost anyway). Should be easy, right?
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I'm still waiting on numbers from you. You're the one here to prove something crybaby.
I can repost the log from above, in case you missed it. I can give you pointers on how to add the numbers up in such a log in order to get to the end result. Just let me know, I don't want to spoil it or rush you. Take all the time you need.
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Btw I asked for numbers from the class. PT Pyro's do not roll into a PVP match and toss out 24k every bout they get in. Standard numbers are in line with other DPS classes ever since they put in the internal timer on reset for rail shot.
I got an idea. How about you prove that.
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That's not war hero gear vs war hero gear. Look how you're already back pedaling on what the log shows. I asked for DPS numbers, not one rigged 9 second snippet that no one here can reproduce. If I post some **** that says my gunslinger does 900,000 damage in 6 seconds do you expect people to debate the OPness of gunslingers or just write me off as a liar/idiot?
Weak, sad and pathetic compared to how you were acting two pages ago, when it almost looked like you were trying to have a reasonable argument.
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Burst damage class dumps cooldowns and resources and does burst, would be my point.
Deception sin, conceal op, any flavor of marauder, some mercs, and snipers can do similar damage given that they pop Relic and Adrenal.
All you have to do is prove it now. It's a silly concept, I know. All that work you put in, all that talk, energy and deceit and yet you are expected to bother with proof of your claims. Anyway, let's just get it over with, post it and show how every class can get within 5% of doing 25k damage in 10s against another guy in War-Hero gear.
You can surely do that, can't you?
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And crit for every single attack? I mean, theoretically if you stacked all power and still managed to crit 5 times in a row with power relic and rakata attack adrenal then maybe but what does that prove? Any class can do that if they have max power and still manage to crit every shot.
If every class can do that, then how about you put your money where your mouth is and show it. After all you asked people to quantify the problem and claimed the following:
Give me a combat parse that shows their damage is out of line. My experience is that they operate within 5% of everyone else from a pure DPS standpoint even factoring in armor penetration.So, it's your turn to show how every class can get with 5% of doing 25k damage in 9s. Preferably without armor debuffs, since you were so awfully bold about it.
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Are they also allowed to pop both Adrenal and Relic?
[17:03:50.935] : ... Rail Shot ...4768
[17:03:52.927] ... Thermal Detonator ... 4253
Sounds like someone popped relics and adrenals, and judging by the rest of the parse the crit cooldown as to crit on every single ability.
Your point?
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With warhero mainhand and a staggering 500 bonus damage your crit would max out at 5435 if you had 75% crit mult ignoring armor entirely.
People get 500 damage bonus unbuffed nowadays. Just saying.
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This could be something I once tested-- stacking the crap out of alacrity. Never tried it in PVP though.
One a full alacrity stack-- and I mean full with adrenals-- you can spin the timers so fast that your stun, or stuns, wears off just as it comes up again.
Yah its possible to perma stun someone, although I wouldn't recommend it since it nerfs your damage considerably.
Still, it was interesting, and fun as hell.
Best post ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_Prp615mmDk
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Tanksins are beatable if you CC them when they use their Force Lightning because it heals them for a lot. If you don't CC them they can just out heal your DPS.
Assuming a dps geared assassin runs around with 18k HPs (this is a lot for a dps geared tank), the healing from Force Lightning would be 2160 HPs. It may delay death and make you beat somebody in a 1 on 1, but the only thing it'd be outhealing is a healing spec'ed Sage, perhaps.
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So op you are playing with a shield in OH?
He's more like playing with a tinfoil hat and he's not alone with that "setup". 2 Marauders vs. 1 Shadow? Killing 4 people?
What are you guys fighting? Afkers?
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"No armor penetration whatsoever" < I list the armor pen options < "Well Mara/Sent has WAY better armor pen" < ...... Not really following your logic
Again, if you're using Shadow Strike without proc.. I'm sorry. If you are waiting for proc, it doesn't cost half your resources and is the best armor-pen Shadows have outside, you know, yellow damage. Not sure how you can say it doesn't have any bearing on whether it's mitigated since it DOESN'T get mitigated besides the paltry resistances most classes get, with Shadow having the best potential resistances to that damage.
Dude, can you stop spreading misinformation? Yellow damage does NOT check vs. resists in this game. Yellow damage merely means it's a force or tech attack, which are mitigated by either armor or resists based on their damage type. The vast majority of all yellow damage abilities checks vs. armor.
As for one Project every 6.25 seconds AFTER every single other option is exhausted (Blackout, Vanish, just killing your opponent and normal stealthing/Speeding away) and at 0 Force, it's a hell of a lot better than a dozen Flurries as a Smuggler's energy crawls back up from 0, no? Even ignoring the "Holy Worst Case Scenario Batman!", you illustrated perfectly how much better the Shadow's regen tools are, since just initial regen from stealth, Blackout and Vanish should give you LOTS more uptime than one Cool Head and a lot more 100% balls-to-the-wall energy usage time. You -could- sit at 60% energy on the Smuggler and have infinite uptime, but you'll be doing far less damage than the Shadow.Having a net +/- force is not a worst case scenario, it's the reality of any sustained damage model. Blackout and Vanish are utility abilities with long cooldowns, which happen to have force regeneration attached to it.
This means that they may or may not be available every 60 and 120s respectively. They also only increase your regeneration by 50% for those 6s, which, following above model, means 1 Project every 4s instead of 6s for the duration. So, for a net +/- 0 force damage sequence you have Project x1, followed by Saber Strike x3 and Project x1, Clairvoyant Strike x1, Saber Strike x2 during Shadow's Respite.
I don't know any other class with such ridiculously low sustained damage. We are talking 3/4th of your abilities being your basic attack outside of dps cooldowns on a 60 and 120s CD.
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-I don't know how you did it but you bugged the skill tree somehow as you can't get Induction without getting Surging Charge first.
Perhaps that's because you can't in fact get Induction without Surging Charge...
Surging charge has been a requirement for Induction for a long time.
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... Particle Acceleration with the Deep Impact skill? Do they stack and give you 100% additional crit damage?
Yes, they do.
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I haven't updated Mr Robot yet, so I'll have to just paste here.
Damage Reduction: 43.33%
Defense Chance: 27.38%
Shield Chance: 43.77% (63.77% with Kinetic Ward)
Shield Absorb: 44.76%
.6377 * .4476 = .28543452 (expected mitigation from shield)
.28543452 + .2738 = .55923452 (expected mitigation from shield+defense)
1 - .55923485 = .44076545 (expected damage after shield/defense)
1 - .4333 = .5667 (expected percent of damage retained after armor)
.44076545 * .5667 = .24978178 (expected percent of damage after shield/defense/armor)
1 - .24978178 = .75021822 (total mitigation against weapon+kinetic/energy attacks)
1. You are including avoidance into your mitigation figures. That's very misleading, even though mathematically correct, as long as you point out that you will translate your evasion into a 100% mitigation variable (practically this approach is not ideal, as 99% avoidance is worth nothing, if you can get 1 shot, but that's another story)
2. While I can live with the fact that you included evasion figures into your mitigation projection, you are using the shield mitigation and evasion additively, which is not correct. You can not shield an evaded attack and then go through armor mitigation.
The correct math would look like this:
0.6377 * 0.4476 = .28543452 (expected mitigation from shield)
1 - 0.28543452 = 0.71456548 (expected mitigation after shield)
1 - 0.4333 = 0.5667 (expected percent of damage retained after armor)
0.5667 * 0.71456548 = 0.404944257516 (expected percent of damage after shield and armor)
1 - 0.404944257516 = 0.595055742484 (total mitigation against weapon+kinetic/energy attacks)
0.404944257516 * 0.7262 (1- evasion) = 0.2940705198081192 (purely theoretical percentage of damage per hit after shield, armor and evasion is calculated)
1 - 0.2940705198081192 = 0.7059294801918808 (purely theoretical mitigation per hit against the relevant type of damage)
So, basically 70.6% mitigation, *if* we account for evasion and how it mathematically translates to mitigation and 59.5% pure mitigation.
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I realised the OP was trolling us, when he said "once you master "strafe" movement you're almost guarantee a win". An absolute dead giveaway, 'cause nobody would consider "mastering strafe" anything beyond rudimentary for PvP gaming, let alone such an incredible feat to allow you to just stomp your opponents.
If strafing guarantees a win in your PvP experience, you must be fighting mouth breathers all day. That'd explain why you are fine with losing against some, as there are obviously incredibly skilled clickers on your server, who happen to outplay you from time to time.
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They are definitely the worst AoE tanks in terms of survivability. As for single target tanks...
Looking at my character sheet *right now*, my total statistically expected mitigation against melee/ranged attacks, kinetic/energy damage is 80.9%. Add to that a self-heal HPS of 230. My survivability is pretty insane under most circumstances.
Seriously, show me that math, 'cause if that's your understanding of game mechanics, then that explains a lot. Post your armor mitigation, shield absorption and shield chance, so I can actually tell you what your "expected" mitigation (against melee and ranged attacks that are dealing kinetic/energy damage) is. It's not 80.9%, that I can tell you already.
As for the RNG thing, that's a valid point w.r.t. Deflection, but it's generally a non-issue. Using Deflection on nightmare Foreman Crusher's frenzy basically makes the damage non-existent. You get hit once or twice, but regular mitigation kicks in at that point and the net damage is really only 10k-ish over the entire frenzy. That's a pretty good panic button, at least for weapon damage.Guardians get a Deflection that additionally grants 25% damage reduction against force/tech.
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I have a 50 assassin and I fully expect harnessed shadows to goto 10% damage increase for the channel and to goto 2% health per tick.
This will make 30% dmg and 8% heals for a 3stack instead of 45% dmg and 12% heals. With that being said they will still be very good.
Also peeps need to learn to use shield and ward for increased shield chance.
It's 75% (25x3) and 12% currently.
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It's not "because of the healing from HS". That would be like saying Sentinels are the best DPS "because of the auto-crits from Zen". Sure, it's a large factor, but you're ignoring everything else. You need to consider all of the mitigation and all of the self-healing (from Combat Technique, Harnessed Shadows and Battle Readiness) if you want to truly judge survivability. People have done that math, and shadows end up on top.
Link, please.
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Shadow Strike proc = 50% armor pen. Force attacks = 100% armor pen, talent can give 9% armor pen passively. But sure, they have none.
1. "Shadow Strike proc": Shadow Strike has a positional requirement, you need to actually set up for it with other attacks and lastly you need to be lucky with a proc. It can also miss, making it all in vain.
2. "Force attacks": FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO CORRECT PEOPLE ON THIS STUPIDITY?! Force attacks have absolutely no bearing on whether an attack is mitigated by armor or resistances, it merely means the ability can not be resisted (unless you are immune).
3. "Talent can give 9% armor pen passively": That talent is in the Kinetic tree and for 9%, you'd have to spend 3 points on it. Even those who choose to play 2/31/8 only get 6% and you basically gimp yourself by doing so.
If you're using Shadow Strike without the proc... well, I'm sorry. Blackout is also awesome and on fairly short cooldown. Your also fairly-short cooldown Vanish gives you the same force regen as does any time you get into normal stealth. Really not seeing how a constant 8 force is worse than the Scrapper "keep above 60% or ELSE" management, even with a Cool Head. The fact that Scrappers don't get many useful burst skills to burn the energy ON helps the management, absolutely. You can Quick Shot a lot and burn your energy, but Flurry does marginally less damage and is energy positive. If you like basic attacking a lot though, you shouldn't be having energy problems with a Shadow either.
What about the rest of my post? You aren't going to get away with "for me force management is easier on a Shadow, because of the constant regen", when I have clearly laid out what that force regen amounts to in terms of practical ability useage.
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...but my basic argument is that Infil is better than Scrapper and has more uptime because of how the energy works and the availability of core skills.
Did you try and be wrong on purpose or do you just not know better? Not only does the Infiltration Shadow have the poorest resource management of all the ACs [just to point out the ridiculousness of it, once you have bottomed out your incredibly large force pool of 100, with abilities costing 30+ on average in any given burst rotation, the Infiltration Shadow will be able to cast a single Project every 6.25s and nothing else in order to stay at a net +/-0 force. Funny huh?
], the burst skills at their disposal are not even close to readily available (6s CD on an ability that costs half your resource pool, 15s CD on Force Breach, a positional attack that barring a proc will cost half of your resource pool again and then there's a big whole nothingness to fill the time between these attacks).To top it off, Infiltration Shadows have no armor debuff and no armor penetration whatsoever.
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Not sure whether I am supposed to laugh about the fact that you think Kinetic Shadows are "by far" the best PvE tank, because of the healing from Harnessed Darkness or because you are saying it's hard to play the spec well.
This game has given birth to a new breed of gamers, I am afraid.
], the burst skills at their disposal are not even close to readily available (6s CD on an ability that costs half your resource pool, 15s CD on Force Breach, a positional attack that barring a proc will cost half of your resource pool again and then there's a big whole nothingness to fill the time between these attacks).
So a Guardian with Unremitting jumps me and Master Strikes
in PvP
Posted
You can be knocked back with Shroud.