With the change to our opener, the lack of a proper threat dump is much more noticeable. This is completely negated by having good tanks, but it should still be an issue to address when your time comes to present questions. From the position of how the changes have impacted us in raids and such, they are good enough from a strictly DPS standpoint. Our mobility is not bad in general, but it suffers against some mechanics. Intercede is such an under appreciated ability, and the Leap reset on Push is also often overlooked. So long as we have an anchor (friend or foe), we can get around pretty well. Mechanics such as T6's Huge Grenade show our weaknesses, more so in Focus/Rage, but even in Vengeance/Vigilance. What we have finally seen, I believe, is the desired balance between the two DPS specs for PvE. Rage/Focus is still the winner for some fights (particularly with some group setups), but for single target damage, Vig is without a doubt the spec to run. Prior to 2.6, it was a decision between steady output (Focus) and potentially higher gains (Vigilance).

Well then, a suggestion if y'all want people to use Dulfy's site for class guides instead of Boarder's: Cite sources of information that would lead people to believe that the guides are legit. Well, that and don't put inaccurate information in the guides.

Your group, collectively, is great. I can't argue that point. That does not mean you know as much as you think you do about individual classes. The arrogance that you show in writing guides for classes that you have no (valid, at least) claim to expertise on is ridiculous. You have access to one of the best Juggernaut DPS this game has in your guild, and it's you writing the guide, without a mention of input by him. And you didn't even write it correctly. Honestly, when you do your 2.6 update, get Noodles on it.

Considering how much room you have for Crit improvement in that parse, it is simply a matter of time.

There are a number of guilds that could, if they had the desire, push the clears with Carl's group. Taking days off of work and adjusting personal schedules to be in game the minute servers come live with a new NiM raid is simply not in the cards for probably the vast majority of players. That doesn't make Carl's group better - just more dedicated. (I reference his group specifically, because 1. I don't know if you're in it, and 2. Hatred has a lot of people that are not anywhere near the top of the progression curve.) Also, responding to someone by saying that you are going to ignore their comment, while quoting their comment, is the exact opposite of that. Edit: To be clear: I'm not saying his group isn't better. I'm saying that their time commitment to this game is not the factor that determines whether they are or not. I'm not touching the "who's better" debate.

2.5 base GCD. ~2.1-2.2 at end game. More interesting healing class (Scholar), which has always been my primary role. The higher GCD, particularly from the healer perspective, means that one needs to be much more aware of fight mechanics and timing, as casting the wrong ability at the wrong time means you have to wait longer before you can take corrective action and becomes much more punishing at the end game. The issue with FFXIV is not the design, or game mechanics... It's the current lack of content (hence my comparison to launch times here when we just had the two, incredibly easy, NiM raids). Well, and the fact that their only "content" for more than 8 people is a complete joke. I am currently raiding here with The Last Centurions, as their raid times don't require me to give up one game for the other. If I decide to run any Ops on Imp side, I'll certainly let you know. But regardless, this thread is about our friends in Intrepid rounding out their roster for the NiM raids that are eventually coming.

Shatter (and by extension, Ravage) more. In the sub-30% phase, you only want to Scream when you have a surplus of Rage; otherwise, replace it with V.Throw. Edit: Mine (1M dummy): Lifting - 4/36/6 Vigilance - 3495 78 MH/OH / Orconian Implants/Ear / 1 78 set piece / DG/UW relics / All other gear 72s. 9.3% increase over yesterday's parse from the 2.6 changes.

Oh, I know. But I've kind of pigeonholed my SWTOR raiding into the late evening time frame to accommodate my FFXIV raid schedule. As stale as the raiding content is over there (it's much the same as when all we had here were NiM EV/KP), I don't want to drop out completely and lose my place for new content.

Lifting - Guardian - Vigilance - 3196 I hate to throw a parse up with a resisted Blade Storm, but oh well.

If you guys didn't raid so early, I'd be all over this. The fact that my scoundrel is still in 63s probably doesn't help, either. But good luck, and have a bump.

Just saw my double post.

I fail to see why that matters. Parsing next week has no impact on parsing today.

Why are you waiting 7.5 seconds to pop Combat Focus on your opener? Throw/Focus/Leap accounts for exactly a full Focus bar (no waste). Obviously, some fights have incoming damage during your opening rotation, and in such cases, you would hold Combat Focus and let the focus build from being attacked, using Combat Focus only when necessary. But you don't note that scenario, so I can only think that you deliberately chose to place Combat Focus in that 7.5 second slot for some reason that I just don't see. (Small thing, yes; but I'm nitpicky about the small things)

You mention Marksman/Sharpshooter rotation as boring; we are going to be the melee version of that spec. It is incredibly dull on the dummy. I hope that once we get the chance to run it in Ops, the fight mechanics will be enough to add some spice to the spec. I'm going to run my Guardian still, because they spec has graduated from "viable" to "effective," but that doesn't mean the spec is more enjoyable now. Obviously, perception and personal preference varies from player to player. A player observing that they find the class less interesting is not the same as ************ about the changes.

Thank you. I'm gearing up relatively quickly, so I should be able to avoid having to convert parse logs to compare before too long. I have MH/OH and a few non-set pieces, so I'm just hurting for relics now.

Get back on Jugg. Parse the 2.6 changes. Rejoin the flock.

I'm not going to paste my whole post over here, so basically, I'm looking for a parse. See details here.

I'm looking for a very specific parse. I know there are a number of us testing the 2.6 changes on the PTS. I can see from my parses that I am routinely getting a 7-8% gain over my top live parses. The problem that I am seeing is this: My 3300-3400 parses don't mean anything in the discussion on optimal rotations, because I have no frame of reference when comparing to the top-end, BiS parses. So, what I want is a parse of someone who is in BiS gear that has crit rates within an acceptable range of standard. I don't care about overall DPS, or specific rotations. I am looking for a parse with numbers that I can plug into my own to see how my rotation/priority ideas stack up against the BiS parses. If you have an average MS hit of (for example only) 4k, and a crit rate of 22-28%, then I can plug that average into my parses and see where my overall parse would be if my gear allowed for that same average damage per hit. It's not a perfect science, I know. I'm putting the numbers into a parse that ran longer than the parse they came from, which means an extended rotation, which potentially means more procs, more time spent in the quick Ravage phase of a rotation, etc. But, it gives those of us who don't have BiS (been back for all of 10 days and 2 raids), to see an approximation of where our rotations are at for BiS, and if our thoughts and ideas are equal/better/worse than others. (I could always take the adjusted parse, and crop it down to the 1m mark so we are dealing with an equal time frame, which would then allow us to look at the side-by-side breakdown of # of each ability used.)

While I agree with your sentiment regarding individuals and class guides, it is pretty stupid to point to the one piece of content that Hatred did not get server first on as a point of emphasis, especially when the point should be about players, not guilds. I'm all for bashing Carl for making a guide for Juggernauts, but leave the petty Hatred/Haterade garbage on the Harbinger forums. Oh wait, you were bashing Dulfy for a guide composed by Carl and someone else that isn't named Dulfy (at least according to the footnote on the guide). Well done.

->Plasma Brand 46.5----R/1/6 ->Master Strike 49.5----0/1/6 ->Overhead Slash 51.0----1/2/3 ->Sweep 52.5----1/2/4 ->Combat Focus 52.5----1/2/10 ->Slash 52.5----1/2/8 ->Strike 54.0----1/2/10 ->Blade Storm 55.5---- 1/0/7 -->Saber Throw 57.0---- 1/0/10 ->Plasma Brand 58.5----R/0/9 ->Master Strike 61.5---- 0/0/9 ->Overhead Slash 63.0---- 1/1/5 If I'm reading it properly, your timestamps are the time at the conclusion of each ability. So you started the PB at the top of the quote at the 45 second mark, which means at it's conclusion (46.5), you have 10.5 seconds left on the cooldown, so you can get Plasma Brand in 1 cooldown sooner than you have it. I'll leave it up to testing on the PTS to decide if it's better to delay that OS at the end by a global to get Ravage up or delay everything by a global to get Overhead Slash in before-hand.

They addressed our complaint about raid utility in the Juggernaut PvE Q/A, and they did imply then that it was not going to be a near-future fix: (emphasis added) Sage and Commando are both ranged, which isn't "utility," but it does make them more desirable given the trend in fight mechanics. Scoundrels just bring crazy high DPS potential and (until the patch) tools such as Orbital Strike. All three can battle-res, and Scoundrels can stealth-res. That qualifies as utility.

The only possible reason to get Alacrity on a Guardian would be to speed up Ravage channel time, and the amount required to make that even remotely beneficial is way to high. As Zahik said: We are bound by the hard cooldowns on our major abilities, and no amount of Alacrity is going to make those 9/12 second cooldowns any faster. For dummy parsing, where you have zero downtime in your rotation, a bit of alacrity could eventually win you an extra global that can be spent on.... basic attack, or possibly a V.Slash (can't remember Guardian equivalent) depending on how much focus you have and where you are in the rotation when that extra global pops up. In a fight with even the slightest downtime, any incremental gains you get towards extra globals is lost during that first bit of time not spent cycling abilities through your rotation. But unless things have changed drastically from what I recall during 2.0 testing, can you get enough alacrity to drop your GCD by 20% as the original post implies?

I hadn't thought about the implications of the two stack Rampage. I am curious how the mechanic works. Will Ravage consume all stacks when used, or will it only consume stacks when you hit two and refresh the cooldown? You're suggestion of opening with Shatter would be ideal if the procs work that way.

Regarding the "feel" being ruined, I will reserve judgement until I can test it. But my concern is that we now have a rotation that is as braindead easy as MM snipers. The only variable remaining is the V.Throw proc. I fear that, by dumbing vengeance down like this, they may have killed what makes this spec enjoyable to me. There is no doubt that it is a performance improvement, but I think that I will be switching to Carnage Marauder if Vengeance plays as dull as I expect it to.

From a practical standpoint, I like the change (at least on paper), but I'm not sure that viscerally it is going to be as enjoyable as the current Vengeance. I'm definitely looking forward to getting on the PTS to check it out, though.