Hating Hatred, touche. I never enjoyed tab dotting as Arms Warrior but that's how it is now on WoW and when you get used to it, it's fun. Styles change. Why is it 'sorely' lacking? What needs to be 'improved', exactly? It does pale in comparison to some of the more predominant specs, sure, but why should it be improved?

Because it got buffed tremendously and is actually very good now, especially for DoT specs.

Sentry / Hatred uses melee attacks, so, yes.

Or very one dimensional, you could say. The PvP in this game, the way the number registry system flows, makes it quite one track and the actual number of outcomes after engaging in combat (healing, dpsing, etc.) is a lot more static than people care to admit. Mitigation abilities merely delay the inevitable. Although this game has more buttons than most, its system isn't very variable. WoW for example, has more ability pruning in comparison but the system there allows more outcomes in its PvP which is why people claim its PvP is more diverse and versatile - because it is naturally, due to the engine itself. That is why the average or even lower-average player will be allowed to succeed more in this game at higher levels than usual or simply get away with lesser maxed results. Simply because the game's combat system is going to point B sooner or later and one just has to race to get there. This has been said a long time ago. You need some accuracy in PvP. 95% / 105% preferably. It has not changed in this regard for years.

Yes, very good. Very good. I think it's worth updating the thread with and give credit where credit is due?

Will you gurl?

No need! I shall update. Oh, that being said. I'm back...

That's flat out not true, you have me. Anyway I didn't really want to make this thread about alternate games etc. I'm taking a break because I feel it's healthy to do so after fulfilling a term. The Shadow / Assassin will always have a special place in my heart. It is the sole reason I have always returned to this game. Not for friends, not for competition and not for raids. SWTOR as a game is a bit dried up in comparison to what is out there. But this class, to me, will always be with me. Whether TOR makes it in the end or not, I cannot say - though I do wish the company luck. However I've always felt obligated to the class and that's something that will probably always remain till the game dies. Madness will be very fun in 2.8. I will come back for a #MaDDaY vid (MK? Berry? cycao? you guys down?) and they spoke of improving tank specs in general for PvP. Deception will become slowly outdated. As a matter of fact, in 2.8, Madness will probably just be a better spec - period. I'm sorry guys but we did try. The developers have an unnecessary paranoia about the spec (even though they buffed Pyro PT's sustained) which blinds them from properly fixing it beyond the nerf / buff nonsense. Shadowsins ftw!

Now that the questions have been answered with solid changes coming for Madness, I believe it is time I took a break. I'd hope they pay attention to Darkness, but we'll have to see. Good luck and have fun.

Also nothing should be balanced around 1v1 either and if they wish to play a hybrid spec then one should do so too if one cares that much about a simple duel. We do have hybrid specs which perform quite well against skank builds. As far as full tank goes, I'm less concerned about 1v1 and more concerned about what it is failing to achieve: Tanking.

My only regret is that I felt like the Madness PvP questioned was answered beforehand and now Darkness' PvP survivability is undeniably low as a full fledged tank. I just hope it won't be another year before that issue is sorted out. The damage KC puts out is enough. The problem is, it doesn't survive long enough to properly upkeep the damage in conjunction to its DR boosts (which can be interrupted and or shut down) If we were able to actually keep up a bit longer without having to run or play super defensively, then naturally, you will see what KC is capable of damage wise in the longrun. For example: Before the change to self heals, it was very possible to 1v1 Infiltration Shadows as KC with over 75% of your HP pool left. Sometimes you'd frankly just maul them down with your damage output but back then you could actually stay alive long enough to get said damage out.

Our full tank spec does not need damage. It needs to survive like a tank. It's absolutely pathetic in every way. This is by far the worst I've seen Tank Shadows in PvP.

Keep the ideas coming guys. Seems the focal point would have to be switched moreso to Deception / Infiltration. Developers do read these threads so try to keep it balanced and respect your peers. Cheers.

In response to the questions answered: Question 1. You had already secretly answered this with the PTS changes so there's not much of a surprise. I believe this is moving in a good direction and the changes to Madness / Balance are ranked very highly in my book. Question 2. Madness is getting some much needed love but you've completely neglected that Deception does not need this nonsensical buff/nerf change. I believe that is an extremely lazy fix and you are capable of better. A thread like this simulates a better change with minimal impact on PvP. I should also mention it is contradictory you'd say you don't want to give a burst class more sustained damage in PvP when you've changed the Pyro PT into exactly what you preach against. Question 3. The ideas for the Phase Walk are on the PTS forums. It needs to be instant cast. This cannot be beyond your capability. As others have pointed out, a simple 3% increase to damage to the caster whilst it is active will help PvE DPS variants out.

This thread should have been in the Assassin forums as it was our turn to ask questions.

Edited

Made a thread here, feel free to respond since they are monitoring the PTS forums.

He does indeed. All I can say is, you're an Assassin and you can't always have nice things. #Balance #Logic

Probably because of the other options we get to stop targets from casting. IE: Knockback, LS, Spike, WW (2.8+) etc.

Crit should be no lower than 25% as Madness and with the new changes coming, stepping that up to 30% will be the best option. Why? Tied in surv. to DoT crits, in addition to the spec not exactly being about burst but rather deep pressure. The changes to DoT damage and Assassinate Proc solidifies this practice. You need crit as Madness and a solid amount of it.

Give me some time to properly review this thread's ideals and the potential changes before adding a noteworthy addition.

Can't help but feel like one of these questions were in a way, silently answered...

Yeah, those new changes are so juicy... Madness, finally, you will actually be decent in PvP? Feels like too much to ask for! Oh boy, is that sad?

Updated OP, added some new scoreboards. Sidenote: Can't help but feel like this thread's been a critical success, especially with Madness buffs incoming, Mad Day is about to take a whole new route of awesome...

Considering Madness still has a ramp-up time, unlike Deception in conjunction with Blackout, which can burst in that time period - it is not as big as you think. Especially when tied to taunt.