Because hybrid scoundrel is rigged in duels (against most classes), if you're wagering 2.5mill I would assume that you would at least want the fight to be semi fair. It's like challenging an arsenal merc to a duel on an annihilation marauder (okay well maybe its not that lopsided). Stealth scan can win the fight for the VG, he has to be very very fast on it though, often times the GCD prevents this. Or he can just be lucky, luck can win the duel however the odds are still in favor scoundrel to not get popped out.

nom nom nom To make it more fair you're going to need to start out of stealth, even then I would probably still give the advantage to the hybrid scoundrel. Odds wise I'm going to give it 2.5:1 in favor of the hybrid when starting in stealth and using DA* 1.5:1 in favor of the hybrid when starting out of stealth and using DA* 1.5:1 in favor the of vanguard when starting out of stealth and not using DA *Odds are based on the assumption that the VG is slow/unlucky on the stealth scan.

Is this a nerf flamethrower thread? About time, I'm sick and tired of alacrity stacking PTs annihilating entire groups. It's like warhammers scorched earth all over again.

You're neglecting the fact that if you dont stun him during UR you could stun him during some other time in the fight, either way you get -5s to attack him and he gets -4s to attack you.

That would be because 80% of sab damage is aoe. Stealth to gap close, if you cast XFF on yourself he uses saber ward+rebuke+defensive roll + Sage buff = 85% damage reduction to OS, he can just sit in it. Both XFF and incendiary would be useless, dots would only ensure rebuke never drops and for everything else there's pacify. If the marauder has all his CDs you literally stand no chance. Also I dont understand why people think that stunning him during GBTF does anything, assuming his damage remains constant there is no difference between stunning him during GBTF or at some other time. Either way he gets -4s that he can attack you and you get -4s that you can attack him. Stun him when hes at the peak of his damage, like when he uses MS or pops adrenals.

Dueling a pure dps class without stealth or tech cleanse as a hybrid isn't really fair, sedatives is simply way too powerful in a duel when you have DA up. Even when you waste 40% of it by overlapping it with stun. When he pops reactive sheild + adrenal + relic + crit buff + hot + pot all at the same time restealth immediately, dont wait for him to drop you to 20% hp. The worst that could happen (assuming you whitebar him) is he heals up to full in which case the fight just restarts without his 6 CDs and its an easy win. The worst that happens if you dont is he gets a lucky string of crits and kills you outright. Duel him as scrapper (hint: you should still win if done right).

Not only is that an incredibly vague answer but its also inaccurate. Tech/force attacks can be both missed and resisted. Resist is to tech/force attacks what dodge/parry/deflect is to ranged/physical attacks. The only difference is in the baseline chances to hit and resist/dodge and how debuffs/defense rating effects it. Force and tech attacks get a baseline hit chance of 100%, however there are a few accuracy debuffs that can reduce this percentage to below 100%. An example of one that does is juggernaut smash specced into quake, an example of one that doesn't is marauders obfuscate, I'm not really sure why some effect tech and some dont. Just stack 5% accuracy and you can completely negate the jugg accuracy debuff. Resisting a tech attack is akin to dodging a ranged attack, however there doesn't seem to be any way to do it other then to use a CD like force shroud as the baseline chance to resist tech and force is 0%. This makes stacking accuracy in order to avoid being resisted pointless. TLDR, in pvp stack 5% accuracy for optimal performance, its either that or softcap the hell out of surge.

Its worth stacking 5% accuracy just to cancel out the accuracy debuff on smash that juggs get, which unlike abilities like obfuscate, does effect tech attacks.

Adrenals =/= Stims. You're thinking of two different things, and as far as I know the stims are being left alone in 1.3.

If used to escape someone and thus avoid damage, yes, yes they are. However since you're melee its effectiveness is largely reduced. Crippling smash has no CD, rupture could potentially be used as one. Not an ability and thus cant have a CD. Not all CDs are used exclusively as either offense or defense, most can be used as both. Any time you use a CD to avoid taking damage you are using that CD defensively. For example if I was to stun a marauder during ravage in order to avoid taking its full damage I would have been using my stun CD defensively. If you're going to narrowly define a defensive CD as an ability that can only be used defensively then i cant think of very many defensive CDs. Lets see, has a CD? check. Can be used to avoid taking damage? check. Thinking sorcs have no CDs that can be used defensively is silly, as a scrapper a well played sorc is one of the most difficult and frustrating targets to kill by far. The bad ones are barely speed bumps.

This, without adrenals/exp buff we are in a very rough place, and I'm not sure that the majority of the scoundrel/op community realize it. They're all too busy complaining about the largely inconsequential nerf (for scrappers at least) to combat scars. As for a gap closer the only time I really feel I need one is in huttball, and i think that could be better addressed through changes to the warzone itself rather then the class.

My favorite is the tank shadows that think they're dps. They're not, they're tanks that dont use taunts or guard, there is a difference. But I agree with you, there are very few MT republic players that can break 300dps in a wz.

Spend a week getting full BM and you can compete with anyone. /thread

No, relative to other classes we will be getting a significant nerf. The removal of adrenals, relics, and expertise buffs hits us significantly harder then any other class in the game, all the other changes are completely insignificant in comparison. The classes least dependent on burst (marauders, sorcs, etc) will be getting a buff since their effectiveness will be dropped by less then that of a burst dependent class. Its like the surge nerf but honestly I would say this is quite a bit worse.

If as a healing op you want to actually keep someone alive through anything approaching a semi competent dps you're going to have to cast UWM.

Snipers get an instant cast ranged mes too. They lack a ranged stun though.

No its not, marauders (mainly annihilation) are the least burst dependent class in the game with the exception of maybe dps sorcs. No marauder is going to spend extended periods of time chasing, 9s charge, camo, predation, spammable snare, pretty much negates any attempts of kiting on any class except for maybe a lightning specced sorc. The nerf to adrenals is a relative buff for marauders, a fairly significant one too.

So how exactly do you get from one side to the other? just from whats been posted it sounds like killing off the other team results in them all respawning on the other side and capping because you cant get over there fast enough without dieing yourself.

Relevant to this thread http://homepages.cwi.nl/~tromp/c4.html

I think the problem is that Bioware doesn't realize that different classes rely on adrenals+relics to varying degrees. They probably think that they are leaving scrappers/concealment alone. They need to look at how these changes reduce operative effectiveness relative to how they reduce the effectiveness of say a marauder.

Ya the removal of adrenals and relics hits us a lot harder then any other class, the nerf relative to other classes is arguably higher in this patch then in 1.2.

The biggest changes are how not having adrenals and relics will effect each class to varying degrees. For example a class that is based on sustained damage like a annihilation marauder will be effected the least. While classes that are based entirely on burst damage like a concealment operative will take a massive hit to their effectiveness.

....?? Of course the game calculates crits individually that's what my math is based off of. Lets try this again. If you have a 67% crit chance on BB and a 54% crit chance on SF then you have a 33% chance to not crit BB and a 46% chance to not crit SF. The odds that you would crit neither are 15%, that does not mean that the odds that you crit both are 85%, there are other possible outcomes. You could crit just one of the abilities. Using your numbers there's a 15% chance you crit neither there's a 36% chance you crit both there's a 31% chance you crit BB but not SF there's a 18% chance you crit SF but not BB

The fact that you dont understand how guard works, you dont know the CDs on your own taunts, and you dont seem to understand what CC is leads me to believe with reasonable certainty that you are in fact terrible. I also appreciated the irony of you stating that sheild generators are useless right before you go on to list 3 classes you deem FOTM, all three of which rely heavily on white damage and are as such mitigated by a sheild generator.

I'm not talking about the chance to independently crit either SF or BB, I'm talking about the odds of critting SF then also critting on BB. 36% base chance to crit on both BB and SF, +16% chance for both from EoS, +15% chance to crit on BB from 2p pve modded with BM armoring and WH mods/enhanc. So total its 67% chance to crit on BB and 52% chance to crit on SF, 0.67 X 0.52 = 0.35. Again this is assuming he has the best gear available.