+1 And, to the best of my knowledge, from a healer nonetheless! Excellent write-up.

Did anyone else notice the silent change(s) they made to Scamper with yesterday's path (2.2.2)?

Yeah, I totally agree. In addition I my 55 scoundrel and op I have a 52 Scoundrel and op both geared/augmented from level 50 EWH gear and they are a blast to play. Another thing I think scrappers are in desperate need of would be a skill tree talent which makes them invulnerable to the effects of taunt/mass taunt. We don't have an execute/finisher as it is and given how poor our survivability is, getting taunted and doing 30% less damage really sucks. Nothing is worse to a scrapper than losing your optimum burst.

I think you'd fid they would decrease the damage of it, probably by as much as 1/3 if it became auto crit. It'd be too easy to troll bads in regs, an they'd be vocal about it on the pvp forums.

Warning: This'll probably be long Thank you to the people who nominated me above in the class rep thread. I don't know that I'd make a great rep of the class overall (mostly as I focus to one spec about 90% of the time, that being scrapper), but I do appreciate it nonetheless. I think the primary problem with the Scrapper spec is that there is no middle road. I think in 1v1 situations, we are pretty damn lethal and can beat most anyone 1v1 to take a node (can always stealth cap to avoid combat). I think we are terrible in the group-based combat dept and have terrible survivability. The rogue class archetype has always been plagued by this last one, and we are therefore blessed with the fact that the class is not completely useless since Sawbones is amazing for healing. There have been times, even post-2.0, where I have opened up on someone (usually not a heavy armored target) and gotten a full string of crits, giving me the ability to fully down the target from 100% - 0% while they are stunlocked. While I think it is cool, it is an instance where I think to myself "gee, that didn't take any skill on my part to win that fight". There are also times where I don't get full crits, but I'm able to root the target in place afterward with Tendon Blast and still kill them from mid-range and get away virtually unscathed. When the actual fight that happens involves you being at 100% hp and them at say 25% hp and they have only that last quarter of their life to attack you, there's not much you need to worry about to end that battle in your favor. I don't really see much skill is required, and lets be completely honest, everyone only thinks of the class as the "no skill stealthy who can stunlock from 100% - 0%". That obviously doesn't happen very often, but to the masses that's how they still see us because it happened to them that one time and it is the first thing they call to memory. I do, however, think the class requires a ton of skill to be competitive and successful in out-of-stealth combat, if only in the regular warzone scene. It's obviously easier for you to to well if you are in a premade vs solo-queued, but still you don't have much in the way of staying alive out of stealth doing your thing. With the changes made in 2.0 with all ranged classes being much deadlier than they were, it makes it very hard to survive. Of the classes I've played, I think an out of stealth scrapper requires a good degree of skill to play. We have good sustained dps regardless now that it was addressed, so this viewpoint is strictly on being the guy who did well and was able to do so only b/c he survived. So, given the above, I say again, there is no middle ground. We are either extremely efficient at being a solo killer due to putting much of that combat in our own favor from the get-go, or we are extremely inefficient while fighting with your group against another group where you are susceptible to AoE damage,, stuns, mezzes, etc. The thing is, 1.0 is never going to happen again, so I'd have to say the way things are will probably be as good as it'll ever get for the scrapper spec. I think 1.7 was way better than it is now, but ranged dps needs to be competitive too and I only see things remaining unchanged for the foreseeable future. To touch on that last part, the class is always going to have the same (lame) cooldowns that are really good as a healer, but not so hot as a scrapper. That is, my thoughts here are relative to the way scrappers will always be, not just a current assessment. In every other MMO expansion I've experienced, we got new abilities. With TOR, we all simply got a single move to our chosen AC. Other MMOs have had new abilities added to each respective skill tree, so it further differentiates each spec and changes dynamics of combat, specifically pvp combat. In TOR, we got a single move available to all 3 skill trees, but nothing essentially done to the trees except a minor tune-up. It's just level 50 +5 more levels and a roll. We still have the same 4 warzone maps that we've had since "vanilla", so really pvp is kinda lame in most regards anyway. TL;DR: I think the scrapper spec will continue on the same path it is going currently and holding onto hope that it'll be "addressed" in some manner for pvp is useless. When 3.0 comes along, who knows, maybe they'll expand each skill tree and give each tree their own new/fresh abilities like a real expansion should have. They'd still need to trim the fat from the scrapper tree and make it easier to stay alive in combat without having to roll away and heal up (with whatever little energy you'll have by that point). I'll continue to play my scrapper as an alt sometimes, and will post here as well here and there. Just was hoping to give a Devil's Advocate assessor on the scrapper skill tree for those still expecting the skill tree to be addressed for pvp reasons.

Well, it's Miyke's guide, so technically I'm just adding my $0.02 here and there. Just poke in from time to time when I'm bored. Actually, I haven't really been playing lately, actually pretty much bored with pvp as a whole. I figured xfers would bring new life to the game, but it's not the playerbase, rather the content which needs to be addressed. Anyhow, if anything I've ever posted (positively) can be of use or helpful in some way, I'm glad I could help. The basic thing with scrapping is the same across all my posts: I personally gear for power/surge with all cunning augs (that one should be obvious) and that'll help you hit as hard as you can. Actually, a guy just whispered me the other night asking what I did different than him in a VS where I almost doubled his damage, said he plays medic as his main spec. I told him basically flat out, just do as much damage as you can out of stealth. Everyone becomes too dependent on their Shoot First opener to give them the Upper Hand (see what I did?) and it's too situational that you'll actually get one to go off, given AoE and whatnot. Plus, I've had bugs keep me in combat, long after I've died/respawned and you're just simply stuck, so I choose to fight (and die like an idiot, likely). TL;DR: If you want to excel - 1. Work on your 1v1, solely for the purpose of you being called upon to stealth steal a node and may not have the opportunity to sleep > cap the node. Most ppl you play in regs should be easy enough if you play the class well. 2. Group combat, just try to lock down the healer or double up on a good opponent who needs to be taken down ASAP when you see it's time. Stick to your rotation, keep your energy in check, and anticipate you're going to get focused/killed very quickly. You're easy to kill outside of stealth; it sucks, you'll get laughed at and focused a lot when ppl know you're the easy target, but it's the price you pay to play the spec. Playing with a premade team helps that last part, though.

I alternate between full infil and 2/31/13. Full infil obviously has higher sustained single target damage, but sometimes wakajinn proves more useful overall, and more fun. Mix it up.

Looks about right (Mr Robot link). Tech/ranged damage numbers come out a little lower than what I'd expect given the min/maxing, but that's probably due to datacrons and/or Mr Robot not calculating right (likely the former). Not sure what everyone else who still runs scrapper would say, but power/surge with your current crit level seems best.

Agreed =) All good boss. And just to add, it's also BW's fault in that with having no cross-server PvP, everyone automatically guns for the easy targets, i.e. scrappers in this case. When the community knows who you are by and large, they gun for you regardless. Being on a new server with a new name has once again reaffirmed my belief in this. I had rolled 2 alts on another server and didn't get focused and did amazingly well since I had more uptime. Now with my main on a new server, it is the same thing and I usually don't get focused. If cross-server PvP ever does get implemented, it would likely prove maybe a rebirth for the spec/class. I'm of course only referring to regular warzones, as I still don't see a use for scrappers in rated. Maybe with the supposed 4x4 arena-type that rumors are going around about, scrappers might have a better spot than 8x8.

Sorry to the OP. Didnt intend to continue with a different/mixed conversation in your thread. Just was replying to dc. Good luck with your spec that you're sharing.

I think it's fine to have a good scope of yourself and abilities, but you truly need to play other classes to gauge just how you compare. A DF has better sustained burst than scrapper, in some situations I've laughed at how quick you can annihilate a target. 3x 3k WS crits are fun, plus bleeds. 1v1 we're still good, but war zones are not about deathmatching, unless the obvious solo node stealing. 65% of 1v1 with a "by the skin of my teeth" win shows there may be room for improvement. The problem with scrappers is this: All classes have had their dps adjusted, so roughly anyone can do good damage if they sit on a target and don't have anything interrupting their rotation. I.E. nobody focusing you means you kill your target and may end with some nice leaderboard numbers. If the opposing team has half a brain between them, and want to win, they naturally might want the target you are focusing (hopefully a healer or a tough dps) to stay alive so that their team is successful. In this instance, a tank might taunt/pull/push you or a dps (likely ranged) will cc or focus you. Sorcs/mercs/snipers all have a way to kite you, regardless of you *awesome* roll and since you're probably fighting in a group of people, say a team trying I secure a second node, you are likely going to be attacked/focused by more than one opposing player. In this case, your ability to survive 1v1 is meaningless, you have to do what you can to survive. Here scrappers have the least survivability of any other dps, so you're likely not to survive. It's fine to argue your case, and I wish you all the est in your endeavors as a scrapper. But if you believe a scrapper is still the best suited for the job when it comes to heavy, coordinated group fighting, I think you're delusional. 1v1 is still cool and fun, but it doesn't win you the war zone more often than not. The best competitive scrapper I've come across recently told me "I pretty much just heal now" in a recent conversation we had before I transferred off. I have yet to see another scrapper or concealment who was as capable as this guy and I've been playing my scoundrel/op alts on 3 servers this past 6 months. It's always good to know your weaknesses.

That's your opinion. I've been a scrapper/concealment through the "hard times" (post 1.1) and even through this latest depression (post 2.0). There may be "tons of scrappers" on your server, but 90% of the ones I still see running around aren't too talented. The real point I was trying to get at is a shadow/sin has roughly the same single target damage of a scrapper, and will make shorter work of a healer than any scrapper will. They have better on-demand burst. Think what you want to think, though, if it makes you feel better about playing a scrapper.

Lol. /5char

TL;DR End game PvP = You'll be a healer or you'll quit the class/game like everyone else did.

Great, thanks for the helpful posts guys. I'm bringing my scrapper, shadow, op and sin over (if xfers happen this Tuesday, since I haven't seen them 100% confirmed) and look forward to the new server. Yes, I'll be joining you here. Glad to see you're coming here instead of POT5. I played a few games on a lowbie slinger and haven't seen any real issues with ping, usually around 97-110, but that's not too terrible.

Just wondering how the balance is between republic and imperial PvP here. I think I've read that it's pretty balanced, more favoring pub side at times. I'm not a ranked player, just inquiring about normal, daily warzones. Also, if anyone plays on Bastion that is east coast, just wondering how pvp queues are during EST hours. I play on JC and even during prime time the queues sometimes exceed 10 minutes. Thanks in advance for any useful responses.

Just wondering how the balance is between republic and imperial PvP here.

We have an arrangement: I praise him every chance I get and he'll let me throw him the ultimate bachelor party. Hangover 4 style.

You're still the best buddy /brofist.

I don't care to have the last word. You're blinded by your own ego and pawn it off on others as if its them. And if you cared to read anything I wrote, you'd see I agreed with the posters that DF is better, but asked to keep an open mind. Your only intent was to bash me. And I haven't convinced anyone of anything, but I'd love to hear the opinions of your 3 "top tier" scoundrels on go terrible I am. Probably know who you're referring to and I grouped with one of them last night. You're halo is a little crooked from where I'm sitting, buddy.

I'd expect nothing less from you Jodie. Although its funny how I have the huge ego. I seem to recall YOU were the one talking **** to me after you were tunneling me all game and had a personal, dedicated healer on you every time you got hit. You boasted about how well you can play an easy class and how you did well with a premise team against me solo queued. Quite actually, your time in premades may have boosted your ego about how good you think you are, because you pale in comparison to Yooni. Not sure, though, where I wronged you. I'm under the fun here an you started it of your own volition, not Like it was brought on by anything other than your own insecurities.

Dude, you didn't have to explain yourself like that. I wasn't attacking you or anything, it was actually a way for me to provide scrapper information for DFers who probably aren't used to seeing what kind of damage the spec does currently. I fully respect your opinion and think you did an admirable job of explaining in the other thread. Sorry if it came across differently, my post was meant to be for the general viewer. And don't worry, sometimes I post dumb things after I've gotten stomped by premades while solo-queueing all night long. You're cool in my book, don't sweat it.

Shadow total damage/dps update http://i.imgur.com/Blk3FKN.jpg

And it should be, with Shrap Bomb at 10 energy with no cooldown. But it's the single target damage that matters. Most of the damage that is ticking on multiple targets with Shrap Bomb can easily be healed with a single Kolto Cloud.

Probably not great. The queue times have been horrible recently whereas POT5 they're much quicker, sometimes instantaneous and not to a wz that everyone was fleeing from.