I would like to push this thread back to the top in order to find out if other people have been observing similar things.

Didn't anyone read the original post in this thread? The OP says that after the latest patch (last Tuesday) his Operative does less damage than before. He is not talking about the 1.2 changes. I play an Operative and have noticed the same thing. The past two days I seemed to be doing a lot less damage than usual. Maybe I have run into some better equipped opponents then usual or have just gotten unlucky on crits, but I doubt it... It certainly wouldn't be the first nerf that has not been mentioned in the patch notes.

*cough* they are the same class

Well played overall and nice video.

@jonmcooper: The argument was between a Tank Shadow and a Scrapper Scoundrel. We all know that healer/hybrid Scoundrels are pretty strong and that Infiltration Shadows are not as strong as Kinetic Shadows.

Vanish-Res --> True Off-heals --> Sorc, Mercenary AoE --> Sniper, (Powertech, Mercenary) ranged DPS when forced out of melee --> only three classes don't have this (Sin, Warrior) but they have gap closers AoE Mez (the "usefulness" of it during a raid aside) --> Sniper (30m range), Warriors short CD stun --> speccing into this for a raid is a true waste of talent points. how many bosses are there that you can stun? OOZ mez --> Sin obviously To sum it up: No, I don't think an Operative has got useful utility that no other class can do better. An Operative does bring a fairly big package of utility to the raid-table though. Someone who knows how to utitlize on it can definitely be helpful. However we cannot deny that the OP is right in his statement. The best dps parses of Operatives that I have seen so far are between 1400 and 1500. And they are incredibly rare because the class is so hard to play. Other classes in the same gear can do more than 1600 with less effort. In an actual raid the Operative's dps will even be more lower compared to other classes because of the positional requirement for backstab. We all know that sometimes you can be behind a boss but get an error message when trying to use backstab. This costs time (in which you cannot dps) and messes up our rotation. So while most of you might be tired of the so-called "QQing" about our class it doesn't make the OP's statement less true.

I noticed the same thing. Since Tuesday my damage was not as high as it used to be... I thought that was just a coincidence and maybe I had run into some tougher opponents than I usually do. I am playing with two relics for some time now and I even got a new War Hero piece today, so it can't have anything to do with the Matrix Cube that has gone missing.

You can nerf us as often as you want, we will still team up and stunlock people until they unsub. Take that, Georg!

Yeah I agree with the last statement. We could go on and on with this discussion and come to no conclusion. What I meant by "1)" was that when the Scoundrel vanishes, the Shadow can do the same thing. Then it is just a matter of who catches who first, and since the Scoundrel has to be behind the Shadow to use Shoot First and the Shadow doesn't have that problem, the Shadow will get the first strike in most cases.

Compare the cooldowns of Cool Head and Force Shroud. "Quick shot > nothing" <-- Incorrect. You have the choice between Quick Shot and Flurry of Bolts. Quick Shot only does slightly more damage while costing a lot of energy. Flurry of Bolts is for free. So you should have written: "Quick Shot < Flurry of Bolts". You guys were talking about an Operatives Stunlock. Noone even mentioned to use a stun breaker. Yes you can use your stunbreaker as an Operative but so can the Shadow. That evens out and the Shadow has still got all the advantages that I described. "Vanish and reopen": 1) So can the Shadow 2) Good luck reopening on a Shadow that has a full resolve bar. You will do just as much damage as you would by using backstab. Then the Shadow can use slow time, force speed to get some distance and use Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning to kill you and heal himself at the same time.

Thanks for the information Kyntari!

In short: - Great healer class - Great hybrid class (no other healing class can do as much burst when needed) - Worst dps class (melee range, mediocre/low damage, very low survivability) Everyone defines "viable and competitive" differently, so better you draw your own conclusions

There is no class that can kill me quicker than a Pyrotech Powertech. And as the OP rightly explained, they can do it from a large distance. A Marauder on the other hand does not do quite as much burst damage, but is in your face when he does it. I think this explains why most people that don't pay close attention view Marauders as "overpowered" but don't complain about Pyrotech PTs.

Tank Sin is the strongest 1v1 class in the game right now. The only classes that can compete are Pyrotech Powertechs and Marauders as you rightuflly mentioned. But losing to them on a consistent basis should never be happening if you play a Tank Sin correctly. You should beat them in most cases but they can hurt you a little bit more than other classes. Also you are greatly overestimating Quick Shot as a skill. You would have to be very low on health when you pop Force Shroud/Resilience to be "scared" of Quick Shot. Usually all that Quick Shot is good for is completely draining the Operative of his energy pool while doing next to no damage which makes the fight that much easier for you. On a side note, you should be using Force Shroud/Resilience early in the fight (which is when the Operative will do most of his damage) and not as a last resort for when you are almost dead. You can think of the skill as two global cooldowns in which the Operative cannot do anything while you proceed to do damage to him. Time it right and use Spike or Electrocute right after Force Shroud wears off to completely own the Operative. After that stun ends, you knock him back and use Force Lightning on him from a distance. Watch him trying to move helplessly towards you while being unable to position himself for a Backstab and doing no damage. TL;DR: Tank Sin/Kinetic Shadow vs Operative = Easiest matchup ever

I wonder why everyone is still talking about Marauders all day. The true DPS beasts in 1.2 are Powertechs. Yesterday I was watching a video in which a Powertech did >18k damage to a Sage in less than 4 seconds. Obviously he used stims and the Sage must not have had a lot of expertise but still... What kind of damage could an Operative do in that timeframe if the stars align? 10k maybe? And that Powertech is wearing heavy armor, has got great utility (taunt, aoe taunt, aoe stun, pull) and can sustain that "burst damage" while an Operative gets energy starved very quickly. When I meet a strong Powertech in pvp that really wants to kill me I usually survive no more than 5-6 seconds max. And I am at over 1200 expertise and have even specced into the 4% damage reduction from the Medic tree. Really, Marauders are very strong and so are Tank Sins and Jugs. But the strongest PvP class has to be Powertech right now.

I'm pretty sure he does. Next nerf incoming!

Just curious if anyone has ever tried this. Is it possible to put War Hero armorings in Tionese gear? And if it is: Which set bonus will be dominant, PvE or PvP?

Confirmed. I am immediately stuck in combat after casting Flyby but only when an opponent is in the area of effect circle. From what I heard the Agent's Orbital Strike does NOT put you in combat before the first damage tick, but the Freighter Flyby does. I already reported this bug to Bioware, and I would like to encourage everybody to do the same. This is actually a bigger disadvantage than the Dirty Kick root had been before. And it took Bioware 4 months to fix that, I don't want to wait that long again.

Scoundrel dps really is the easiest class to counter in the game. CC them, slow them, do some damage to them and they stand no chance. And obviously every Shadow has an "I win"-button when fighting a Scoundrel: Resilience I don't think I have ever lost a 1v1 with my Darkness Assassin (the mirror to your Kinetic Shadow) against a Scoundrel/Operative in the 50s bracket. And there have been numerous times where I killed one even though I started the fight off at only 40% HP or so. I would also like to add that you cannot get "stunlocked" by a Scoundrel. The stun from the opener lasts 1.5 seconds. The global cooldown is at 1.5 seconds, too. This means that you get up before the Scoundrel can even hit you again. If you want to avoid him stunning you, simply stun him yourself. At MOST you can be "stunlocked" for 4 seconds, only if your stunbreaker is on cooldown and only if your reaction speed is very slow. Now look at your shadow. You have the same 4 second stun that the Scoundrel has but yours has a 30m range instead of 4m. You have the same 1.5 second stun which you can use all of the time, while the Scoundrel can use his only from stealth. Furthermore you have a knockback, force speed, pull and two slows to make you the god of crowd control in this game. --> A tank Shadow complaining about a Scoundrel's "stunlock" is pretty hilarious.

@1: Really no point in writing something like this. Maybe you are better, maybe you are not. Who cares about that? @2: Gotta agree with you on this one.

So the fact that bubbles can also be cast on other players is a bad thing now? I agree that Sorcs are glass cannons, but they have great mobility, CC abilities and range which makes them ideal kiters. Good Sorc players don't die very often. However the difference between good and bad players is pretty big with this class at least in regards to survivability... But I think that is actually a good thing.

Nope.

Nowhere was he complaining about anything. He only posted his own personal opinion. Please calm down and read: #2 of the Disclaimer in my OP your own signature

Thanks for the detailed ranking. I can agree witih most of it.

He wants to play a healer, not a dps. He'll be fine.