Ok - thanks for the clarification. That is a little frustrating, as I'd like to upgrade the armoring too, without grinding out additional WH pieces. Getting the full set takes long enough, let alone extra pieces. The stats on WH gear is really strangely distributed, in some cases, mixing what used to be distinct sets in the past.

Have a really basic PVP armor set bonus question: If I put WH armoring into a BM shell, do I still get the BM set bonus, or will the WH armoring override the BM bonus? Specifically, I am referring to differing set bonuses, and I would like to keep the BM 4 piece bonus. Some of the stats I'd like to add are for different sets in WH, however. Thanks for your help. I know this is an old question, but I am pretty new to PVP and only now getting WH armor.

Hi Fellow Shadows, 1) I have a simple question for upgrading a PVP Battlemaster Survivor set. When getting War Hero pieces of a different armor set, if I place the WH armoring/mod/enhancement into the BM shell (for both looks and function, as I've been trying some DPS stats alongside the Survivor set stats and bonus), which set bonus applies? I just would like to make sure the BM shell set bonus overrides the WH armoring, so I don't lose the 4 piece set bonus - 5% extra damage while guarding is pretty great. 2) Any advice for how to get ranked warzone comms the fastest? I am not part of a PVP guild and do not have the time to join one, really. Do most people simply solo queue PVP to get their WH sets? How long does it typically take to get all the armor pieces? Thanks for your input!

EA/BW basically already have this implemented now, in the sense that one can level to 15 for free. It is fairly easy to level a 50 character in one month, i.e. not playing all day, so going from 16-50 for a $15 sub or game card is readily possible and pretty reasonable (50 cents a day for a really great leveling RPG experience?). I imagine not many people are taking the bait, however, after playing 15 levels, or, sadly, not even trying out TOR. Otherwise, we'd not be hearing a F2P announcement 7 months in.

Better looking armor sets, pets, mounts, lightsabers, basically fluff. For content, occasional Ops, FPs, and WZs, after content that has already been in the making is exhausted. The 1-50 leveling content, the vast majority of what is TOR, cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make. What revenue stream do you see coming their way that would allow for story content on par with this initial 1-50 experience to be produced? And, why would EA invest it in a game that flopped this badly in their eyes? And this is not even acknowledging many of the folks who actually made said story content no longer work on SWTOR or even at BW.

Do you actually still believe that? What makes you think it would be possible to expand 8 class stories appropriately, at the quality level of the initial 1-50 experience, when, basically, in the past 7 months, the only content that was produced and released was 1 Op, 1 FP, 1 WZ, and a daily mission area? There were also two systems made available, rated WZs and a group finder. True, our subscriptions were being used to make for a transition to F2P possible, but that is certainly not 8 class strories' content. And, our subscriptions were being used to make for a transition to F2P possible, i.e. EA/BW/DarthHater aren't exactly reliable sources now, are they?

Will classes and AC skill trees still be worked on now? Or will we basically be stuck with whatever pans out toward the latter part of this year? I was really hoping for a reworking of the Shadow/Assassin DPS trees, such that they would be as viable as the other melee classes.

I really doubt it. The game's great strength, the 1-50 leveling experience, was very expensive to produce. Either that, or a lot of money was wasted along the way. Either way, I don't think TOR will be given the resources to make more leveling content that matches the quality of the initial release. If it ever does come, it will be a long time from now, so far off that most of the player base will probably have moved on to other interests. For all intents and purposes, the F2P announcement is EA/BW's way of acknowledging the game didn't work out financially as they had planned, and they are trying to salvage what they can now, after having invested a lot of resources in making it. They have a great 1-50 leveling product, and are going to leverage it to make up some of what they've lost. If many subscribers had stayed on, and I believe they would have if the game had been released later, with a real endgame in place (i.e. with mini-games like pazaak, 5-6 WZs with rated play at the outset, endgame crafting, events, additional quest chains/reasons to explore and go back to the leveling worlds, etc.) and all the necessary systems in place, like a group finder and an engine that supported proper world PVP on Ilum, the game would have been a success. I bet we'd have seen an expansion of the story arcs within 2 years, on par with the initial 1-50 experience. But, sadly, TOR was mismanaged and released as an unfinished product, and the gaming industry today is fickle and unforgiving. I wonder how a KOTOR Online, released in say, 2006, would have done, even if it had some flaws in it initially? I recall trying out WoW at that time, and thinking so many people would rather be playing a similar game in the Star Wars universe.

I really doubt it. The game's great strength, the 1-50 leveling experience, was very expensive to produce. Either that, or a lot of money was wasted along the way. Either way, I don't think TOR will be given the resources to make more leveling content that matches the quality of the initial release. If it ever does come, it will be a long time from now, so far off that most of the player base will probably have moved on to other interests. For all intents and purposes, the F2P announcement is EA/BW's way of acknowledging the game didn't work out financially as they had planned, and they are trying to salvage what they can now, after having invested a lot of resources in making it. They have a great 1-50 leveling product, and are going to leverage it to make up some of what they've lost. If many subscribers had stayed on, and I believe they would have if the game had been released later, with a real endgame in place (i.e. with mini-games like pazaak, 5-6 WZs with rated play at the outset, endgame crafting, events, additional quest chains/reasons to explore and go back to the leveling worlds, etc.) and all the necessary systems in place, like a group finder and an engine that supported proper world PVP on Ilum, the game would have been a success. I bet we'd have seen an expansion of the story arcs within 2 years, on par with the initial 1-50 experience. But, sadly, TOR was mismanaged and released as an unfinished product, and the gaming industry today is fickle and unforgiving. I wonder how a KOTOR Online, released in say, 2006, would have done, even if it had some flaws in it initially? I recall trying out WoW at that time, and thinking so many more people would rather be playing a similar game in the Star Wars universe.

Lol - As a male Jedi Shadow, I totally agree with this. I'm almost positive I will finally be able to get a robe and general look for the class that I envisioned when I first chose it in January. I have no idea how they ended up with what they did, almost as though the endgame armor was bought from a different game. Anyway, I don't know what will become of TOR now, but at least I won't have do dress in drag to get the 4 piece set bonus (haven't had the time to get campaign gear yet).

One thing I found noteworthy in the F2P announcement, unless I missed it, is the absence of the new planet they had previously announced, with new quest chains, a level cap increase, etc. Perhaps it might be best to unsubscribe for a while and come back in 6 months or so and see where the game is. I honestly really enjoyed TOR until the past couple of months, when the endgame content has begun to feel boring/repetitive, and I just had the feeling that something was very wrong on the development front. If future updates to real, new content are slow or not very substantial, i.e. who cares if we can have a new robe or three and mounts galore when there isn't really anything new to do, I'm not sure if the game is worth playing any longer. As a longtime Star Wars fan and enthusiast of the KOTOR games, I'm not sure what to think about all this. The leveling experience was the best in any MMO I've played, though I am not a hardcore gamer by any means. It's just confusing to see what I thought was a very decent game sort of in shambles only 6 months after launching. My only complaints about the game then included the terrible looking, "non-Star Wars" endgame armor, the need for more WZs at launch (and certainly now), and the lack of a group finder. Perhaps varying leveling paths for the different classes would have been preferred as well. Thoughts? Please keep the thread constructive.

I leveled as a dps shadow, and found Tharan to be the best to use. At endgame, doing daily missions, it doesn't really matter, though you'll get through them quicker with a dps companion.

Anyone notice how nervous he looks in this video? BW and James must be under an immense amount of pressure to make sure the game does fail. I applaud the successful transfer process, and hope the coming initiatives to improve the game and further the content are as well implemented. My two cents: roll it out fast after 1.3, and don't kill off Shadow/Assassin tanks in PVE with a poorly thought out nerf

Not really, though. The only difference is the social gear will now be adaptive. If you look at all the social gear, there might be a couple of sets that are appealing for some classes, and you need to have a ton of social points to access them. As a consular shadow, which I would argue has the worst PVE armor I've ever seen in endgame, there isn't really anything new. I can play looking liking a bounty hunter or a fleet pilot or someone from Alderaan. That doesn't make up for not including Jedi robes for Jedi to wear in endgame in a Star Wars MMO. I'd be perfectly happy if BW simply allowed for making the BM robes in different colors. At least those look like something a Jedi would wear, and are worthy of endgame content, i.e. a step up from what one can collect while leveling. On all the population discussions: once the transfers are complete, I hope the programmers can simply increase the rate at which mobs and daily objectives reappear. That is my only gripe about the large servers - it takes way too long to complete missions now, especially if one plays in the evenings. Other than that, I'm really enjoying the large servers, and I think BW did a great job on the transfers in general.

This is interesting. I hadn't seen or thought of that angle at all. I am a Shadow, and it's true I only play one toon. Isn't that a little toooo cynical, though? The nerf certainly is too much, though. I hope BW reconsiders the extent of the cuts based on PTS feedback. I can't imagine how survivability, especially in the hardest boss fights, will be equal with the other two tank classes.

Is the healing relic you are referring to above the campaign one that has a 50% chance to heal an additional 443 health over 3 seconds every 20 seconds? "Relic of Ephemeral Mending"? I did not know this applied to self-healing, i.e. was intended only for healers to use. Given the nerf, I would very much want to get this if it works for Shadow tanks.

Agreed. If what is cited above is true (3.77%), that the change isn't as drastic in the game as it appears in the text announcement, then I'm okay with it. I just don't want our tank class to become broken, as I really enjoy playing the Shadow more than any of the other classes I've tried. At least on my server, after the Sage healer nerf, there have been far fewer Sage healers. Nearly every Sage I encounter is now a DPS. According to a guild mate, this was due to sheep-behavior, as she claims while healing certainly did change with the nerf, it was just an adjustment in approach that was necessary and did not break the class. And I can confirm she is still a really good healer in ops. As such, I hope BW's data is up to par and we will be just fine, perhaps needing to manage self-healing slightly better in some fights. On a side note, PVP players, please continue to mop the floor with others in warzones. As pointed out above, the nerf barely addresses the PVP issue. I think I might join in the fun!

Has anyone tested out the new shadow tanking stats on PTS well? Is our survivability much worse than it was before, i.e. very noticeable? I don't mind minor adjustments for class balance, and understand it's necessary in any MMO. In this case, I feel it was mostly done for PVP players, despite the official reason stated. If one goes back to read on how the shadow tank was designed in the first place, the same reasons were given FOR the armor buff and self-healing capacities, as they do bring our characters up to par with the heavy armor tanks, especially regarding the armor buff. If there was any slight advantage, it was negated by the fact that tanking as a shadow is more difficult due to the way we shield and must self-heal to appropriately mitigate for a group. If a minor adjustment was necessary, and that is what has occurred based on PTS play, I would feel better about the news. As it stands, the cuts into armor AND self-healing come across as too much. I'm concerned we won't be favored as main tanks any longer. Also, just to vent a little, it is frustrating that a few vocal PVP players can really mess up what is defined by BW as a PVE-focused game. I don't PVP much, but I didn't feel my shadow was all that overpowered. The sentinel/marauder classes do a completely ridiculous amount of damage in PVP and haven't been touched.

In this case, though, Shadows/Assassins will no longer be able to tank in PVE. The other two skill trees, which are DPS-oriented, aren't all that viable as alternatives, as there are much better DPS classes to play. Sentinels, for example, are way better in both PVE and PVP for DPS. Basically, if the changes are final for 1.3, they've killed off a tank class, and nobody is going to want to play a mediocre DPS Shadow.

Have you considered that most of these skills are in place for PVE, the stated focus by BW of this game? All of you people whining about Shadows/Assassins in PVP has now rendered the classes essentially useless for tanking in high-end Ops with the changes put in place for 1.3. Though, I should note, it's actually BW responding to said whining. Kind of like they did with adding all of those necessary servers 6 months ago. That worked out well, right folks?

If the current changes become finalized for Shadows/Assassins, I don't believe it will be possible to effectively tank for high-end Ops any longer. The only way Shadows/Assassins kept up with the heavy armor tank classes in PVE was through effectively managed self-healing and an armor boost. To reduce both so drastically (the former by 50%, generally, and the latter by 35%) renders them absolutely inferior to the heavy armor tank classes, which were already favored by many guilds due to the weakness Shadows/Assassins have with larger mobs. This occurs due to the charge-based system for their shielding ability, which can only be renewed at a certain interval, and large mobs go through the shielding charges very quickly. Healing these two classes is often described as "spiky," and this is why. Survivability depended on effective self-healing and the armor boost. It seems to me this chance is a response to all the whining about Shadows and Assassins by PVP players, and BW has responded. Unfortunately, it affects the focus of the game as stated by its developers, PVE, rendering one of the three tanking classes now undeniably inferior to the other two. This more or less forces Shadows/Assassins to become DPS-oriented after months of playing and refining their characters.

Fair enough. I'd enjoy a couple of beers as well for the price. That said, if you value playing TOR over other games, which I assume you do since you are on this forum, it's not a stiff fee to pay for quality content, updated on a regular basis. I would far prefer this model over waiting a year or more between expansion packages to continue the class storylines. If BW implements this, alongside fixing PVP and adding in some mini-games, improved crafting, etc., to tide people over between content additions, I think it could turn the game around post 1.3 + server transfers. It would actually live up to what I had in mind when the game lauched, a story-driven MMO, and something distinct from WoW.

I understand there are different ages of people playing the game. But, if you are an adult, I cannot understand why you think $10 (what was cited in one of the surveys) for many hours' entertainment is charging too much. Going to a movie generally costs more, and lasts less than 2 hours. It takes resources to develop the game, and I'd be happy to pay $10 (or some other reasonable charge) every few months if it means BW is able to produce story-driven content and build TOR into what it still can be, a really fun, story-based MMO. Once the servers are fixed, and a LFG tool is added, both coming shortly, all they need is new content updates like this. And, again, unless you are young, please don't cite the subscription as something it isn't, a huge fee. It's roughly 50 cents a day.

Agreed. That is something substantial, content-wise, in a feature patch. Hope BW does this!

I realize 1.3 has been stated to be a feature-heavy patch, but, for those of us who are sticking with the game and are loyally even promoting it to people we know, it would be nice to have some sort of new content thrown our way too. I would think a mission for HK would be perfect. It's not as complicated as implementing ranked WZs, or as intricate as a new set of daily missions, flashpoint, or operation. It would just be something simple to add into the game that would liven the spirits of those of us who continue to have high hopes for the game and are a little saddened by its current state, i.e. so many servers on life support and the endgame being unfinished. If anyone from Bioware reads this, please consider including some new content in 1.3. HK I think would not only excite longtime fans of KOTOR, but would also spark the community alive in the way the recent event did, i.e. something new and cool everyone could appreciate and enjoy.