Marb
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Posts posted by Marb
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Not sure if trolled is trying to troll their way out of being trolled.
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Edits and comments in yellow.
PvPWe the community believe that the most outstanding issue with the juggernaut dps tree's are their lack of adequate cooldowns with an emphasis on "Enraged Defense." In the Vengeance Tree "Enraged Defense" is arguably one of the best cooldowns for dps juggernauts. In the rage tree however it is almost useless when fighting 1v1 and incredibly useless when being focused by multiple enemies. A solution to the Rage Tree "Enraged Defense" would be to increase the amount of healing received by the skill or to make it similar to the Vengeance Tree "Enraged Defense." Also it will be extremely important to remove the resource cost of the skill and the resource cost while the skill is active in both trees. As it stands by using "Enraged Defense" for both trees you are inhibiting your ability to put out dps. We understand that in PvP scenarios rage juggernauts put out an incredible amount of pressure and damage, but the damage to survivability ratio is severely imbalanced. We also understand that juggernauts have the utility to taunt and mitigate damage to other players, but you can't taunt if you cannot survive.
Question: What solutions/thoughts does the combat development team have regarding the above issue?
~I'm really not keen on that question at all, it neglects its pve implementation. I think Karyus's or my own alternative addresses both concerns.
PvEOutside of an armor debuff, which can be applied by multiple other classes/role assignments, Juggernaut DPS has very limited group utility. Off-tanking or emergency tanking is not encouraged by any mechanics at end-game, and is not practical without sacrificing competency in our primary role as damage dealers. Similarly, abilities such as Enraged Defense and Intercede, will providing increased survivability, detract from our primary function as damage dealers (Intercede for using a global to do something other than damage and ED for the Rage cost), causing our already unimpressive damage potential to dip even further; they are also completely unneeded in end-game PvE.
~paragraph break
With the current state of affairs with regards to class balance, a group would be better served bringing a Juggernaut tank, a Sniper, or a Mercenary for their armor debuff, due to other benefits provided by those classes/roles in addition to the armor debuff. This leaves Juggernaut DPS players without something that they can offer a group as far as utility abilities are concerned. Further, Juggernaut DPS is woefully lacking with the exception of one specific spec in one specific fight in the current tier of content. ~I'm not sure if this sentence makes this question sound a bit dramatic, even if it's true.
Question: Is it intended that Juggernauts' damage output and group utility while using either of the DPS trees be sub-par due to the fact that we have the option of fulfilling the tank role?~I'm expecting them to say that "juggernauts are meeting dps milestones using our internal tests". Even if utility were addressed for us, we would still be in a position of redundancy due to being eclipsed by marauder and sniper dps. Are we expressing a concern with our utility, or a concern with our dps, or both?
GeneralVengeance currently suffers from two distinctive problems which affect its performance in both PvP and PvE.
First is the dependency on the Rampage proc to refresh Ravage. Unlike many other specs, Vengeance can not refresh Ravage through ability spam, as both Impale and Shatter have significant cooldowns accompanied with a comparatively low proc chance of similar abilities (30%). Given the long 30 sec cooldown on Ravage, this creates great variance in damage performance when DPS and rage generation dip down due to a 'no proc' scenario.
Second is the fact that Ravage is a melee channel, and suffers from all the vulnerabilities that go with these types of abilities. Much of its damage can be avoided simply with movement (which leaves the Juggernaut outside of melee range) and it can be be shut down with mezzes, stuns, knockbacks, etc. This is a significant issue due to how little damage our filler abilities deal, and how little rage we have to spend on them. This leaves Vengeance at great risk of being shut down completely in group PvP environments after the initial Ravage (from unstoppable).
To be clear, the community enjoys Ravage and considers it the cornerstone of the spec.
Question: With this in mind, would the combat team consider making some changes to ensure Vengeance can more easily deal reliable and consistent single target damage in PvE and PvP?
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/sigh I wasn't suggesting that my questions be used verbatim, simply that their form and structure be considered as well as their content. I'm too tired to continue trying to contribute. Spending over an hour wording and carefully re-wording questions to offer as simply a model and to get met with a mixture of mockery and simple ignorance not once, not twice, but three times is just too much. All I can hope is that Vengeance gets fixed.
A lot of the snipes at people have been around disagreeing on possible solution's/changes and PvP vs PvP importance, which has been a bit of a waste of effort anyway. The guard question thread was equally derailed and went off on this tangent.
The genesis of the enraged defense question I posted really had its root here:
The community has significant concerns about the usefulness of Enraged Defenses particularly in PvP as all other DPS classes have a resource-free threat drop that in many cases (Marauders/Sentinels, Mercenaries/Commandos, Assassin/Shadow, Operatives/Scoundrels) provides significant utility on top of the threat drop without adding a cost. What is the reasoning behind providing Juggernauts with only a resource-intensive threat drop with the utility of a built-in heal which as long as in effect continues to drain resources and is there any intention to bring this threat drop and attached utility more in line with other similar abilities?It's important because I think it was silly to not mention its pve applications (UncleOst's was pvp exclusive), even if it's primarily framed as a pvp question. This included both issues with the ability, but I was hesitant to include any direct comparisons with classes as examples. I think we should try to avoid the possibility of Bioware dismissing the merit of our concerns based on "perception problems".
For reference, this is a summary of proposed questions in order of date posted so far:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6651910&postcount=1
http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6661311&postcount=20
http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6672165&postcount=67
http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6691055&postcount=83
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I am going to be posting the questions I have in mind tonight and pretty much have the PvP question complete. But with regards to the PvE question I am thinking about using Marb's question or Uncle Ost's. I would like the community to help with deciding which question would be better or if any alterations are needed before I post it.I posted versions of the questions several pages back,but they were sort of ignored...
I would prefer the class rep to instead take our contributions into mind when constructing his own questions, rather then just flat out using them and attributing them to the author.
My questions include the key points from most of the previously posted questions, I have just tried to rejigg them to avoid direct class comparisons and focus on intent like the sentinel questions. I think we all agree on what the questions should be about, my main concern is about how they are asked.
The sorcerer and vanguard answers were terrible, in part due to unfocused and badly constructed questions, but those questions contained legitimate concerns for those classes.
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General Question
Vengeance currently suffers from two distinctive problems that affects its performance in both PvP and PvE due to its reliance on Ravage and Rampage.
First is the heavy dependency on the Rampage proc to refresh Ravage. Unlike many other specs Vengeance can not refresh Ravage through ability spam, as both Impale and Shatter have significant cooldowns, and it has the lowest chance of success amongst similar abilities. Given the long 30 sec cooldown on Ravage this can create great variance in DPS performance with the large dps dips of these 'no proc' scenarios.
Second is the fact that its top ability is a melee channel where much of its damage can easy be avoided simply with movement, (which leaves the Juggernaut outside melee range) or not having the opportunity to get off a full Ravage channel do to a large variety of other factors (mezzes, stuns, knockbacks, etc).
To be clear the community enjoys both abilities and considers them the cornerstones of the spec but would the combat team consider making some changes (whether faster channel, improved proc chances, etc) to ensure Vengeance can more easily deal reliable and consistent single target damage in PvE and PvP?
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How's this for trying to make it a little more concise?
That's much better. I took that and went through it with some edits to make it bit more direct. If we decide that we want to ask about both issues with vengeance this is the kind of question I would like to see.
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I agree with this. Keep each question incredibly focused! If you dip in and out like the Sorc questions did then you risk getting a generalized answer from BioWare. If we keep it all neat and concise I think we might have a fighting chance at a decent answer to our questions. So far I really like where the questions are going, we NEED some group utility, we currently don't have any purpose in a group as a DPS right now, other then sub-par DPS... Which isn't enough to warrant bringing a Juggernaut for DPS. I for one love DPS on my Jugg, and the answer is NOT roll a Marauder or go Tank...
That's precisely my concern with the general question. But due to how the spec presents different issues in both PvE and PvP, focusing the question on one of those aspects would give us a better chance at a relevant answer, at the cost of alienating PvP or PvE concerns. Would it be better to just frame the question from a PvE perspective, but draw attention to how much of our overall damage is dependent on ravage, and the comparatively low damage of filler abilities?
If we focus on the rng nature, it would bias the question too heavily towards a PvE solution (higher rampage proc chance) without addressing PvP concerns (low damage of filler abilities, ravage channel being problematic in pvp). I agree with ssfish that higher filler damage would better serve PvP players, while at the same time upping the baseline PvE dps and causing RNG streaks to peak at higher numbers.
Currently the question just attempts to tackle all of those concerns, which is why it doesn't work very well as a question. I have cut the general question down to a basic framework for a new style of question.
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Outside of an armor debuff, which can be applied by multiple other classes/role assignments, Juggernaut DPS has very limited group utility. Off-tanking or emergency tanking is not encouraged by any mechanics at end-game, and is not practical without sacrificing competency in our primary role as damage dealers. Similarly, abilities such as Enraged Defense and Intercede, will providing increased survivability, detract from our primary function as damage dealers (Intercede for using a global to do something other than damage and ED for the Rage cost), causing our already unimpressive damage potential to dip even further; they are also completely unneeded in end-game PvE. With the current state of affairs with regards to class balance, a group would be better served bringing a Juggernaut tank, a Sniper, or a Mercenary for their armor debuff, due to other benefits provided by those classes/roles in addition to the armor debuff. This leaves Juggernaut DPS players without something that they can offer a group as far as utility abilities are concerned. Further, Juggernaut DPS is woefully lacking with the exception of one specific spec in one specific fight in the current tier of content.
Is it intended that Juggernauts' damage output and group utility while using either of the DPS trees be sub-par due to the fact that we have the option of fulfilling the tank role?
Think that would cover it? Or am I falling into the realm of "too whiny" at that point?
Probably not needed (I hope), but It would be sad/amazing if "you have intercede" became our equivalent of "you can heal to full".
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Well his question doesn't make mention of Marauder's so I think that wouldn't be an issue. And unless I missed something neither does your general question for Vengeance so those should be ok.
True, though now i think they will just feel the need to remind us of all the amazing things dps juggernauts can do in ops, like intercede! Now I'm just being negative.
Ninja edited. Revamped pve question from ssfish. Still not happy with the vengeance question, it lacks focus. EnalisNailo alternative is equally good, but it suffers from the same issues that my current question does, in that it lacks focus and doesn't read very well, due to its split pve vs pvp nature.
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ssfish pretty much cleaned up the PvE question, it reads much nicer now. I'm still worried they will give us the "comparing marauders and juggernauts isn't a good comparison" they gave sorcerers.
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Its disappointing, but any story content is better then no story content.
For the next world arc I hope they put extra effort into adding more class exclusive dialogue options and mission objectives. As long as the new stories acknowledge my characters past choices, and continue to offer me new ones to make, I'm cool with world arcs.
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Yep, I am still not happy with their length, and I am having difficulty ordering the different ideas without muddying the question. The Veng question in particular is very difficult to focus on, as the issues are to do with ravage in one form or another, but in different ways. I'm concerned they will just choose one of those topics to rattle on about.
I'm also not happy with the PvE question as it is, but it would be good to get a clear answer on where Bioware consider non-marauder/sniper dps to fit in as far as balancing. They have said in the past that there is no hybrid tax, but the answers to the sorc questions implied that there is some unique balancing involved when the class has access to healing (and I would wonder if that extends to classes with taunts).
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That's pretty much the intent behind the change, AoE would no longer be the specialized role of the spec as it is currently, and liberating it from that would mean that single target damage could be brought up.
Weirdly, I agree with you VitalityPrime. That's what the thought process was behind the changes I suggested. This would mean that AoE is something that all Guards could do if they needed to, rather then being the hallmark and primary balancing criteria for an entire spec.
Cyclone Slash would probably need some focus/damage adjustments to make it an efficient multi-target substitute for Slash when in Focus spec.
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Revamped pve question from ssfish and general question from ArenCordial.
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PvP) Enraged Defense is a strange ability, as it's a defensive cooldown that costs resources to use. The healing and threat reduction comes with a rage cost that's potentially so severe, that it leaves Juggernauts in a position where they have to sacrifice their damage in order to incrementally heal and lower threat over time while being attacked.
On the plus side, Enraged Defense is designed to work while under the effects of a hard CC (like a stun) and Vengeance can spec into Deafening Defense to give it 15% damage reduction while active. However, it is still dubious to use as a defensive cooldown for non-Vengeance Juggernauts and unreasonably expensive for both DPS specs to use as a threat drop.
Would the team consider removing the rage cost and rage consumption effect from Enraged Defense? Additionally, would improving the ability for other Juggernaut specs outside of Vengeance be something to consider as well?
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PvE) Outside of an armor debuff, which can be applied by multiple other classes/role assignments, Juggernaut DPS has very limited group utility. Off-tanking or emergency tanking is not encouraged by any mechanics at end-game, and is not practical without sacrificing competency in our primary role as damage dealers.
With the current state of affairs with regards to class balance, a group would be better served bringing a Juggernaut tank, a Sniper, or a Mercenary for their armor debuff, due to other benefits provided by those classes/roles in addition to the armor debuff. This leaves Juggernaut DPS players without something that they can offer a group as far as utility abilities are concerned. Further, Juggernaut DPS is woefully lacking with the exception of one specific spec in one specific fight in the current tier of content.
Is it intended that Juggernauts' damage output and group utility while using either of the DPS trees be sub-par due to the fact that we have the option of fulfilling the tank role?
~ssfish
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General) Vengeance currently suffers from two distinctive problems which affect its performance in both PvP and PvE.
First is the dependency on the Rampage proc to refresh Ravage. Unlike many other specs, Vengeance can not refresh Ravage through ability spam, as both Impale and Shatter have significant cooldowns accompanied with a comparatively low proc chance of similar abilities (30%). Given the long 30 sec cooldown on Ravage, this creates great variance in damage performance when DPS and rage generation dip down due to a 'no proc' scenario.
Second is the fact that Ravage is a melee channel, and suffers from all the vulnerabilities that go with these types of abilities. Much of its damage can be avoided simply with movement (which leaves the Juggernaut outside of melee range) and it can be be shut down with mezzes, stuns, knockbacks, etc. This is a significant issue due to how little damage our filler abilities deal, and how little rage we have to spend on them. This leaves Vengeance at great risk of being shut down completely in group PvP environments after the initial Ravage (from unstoppable).
To be clear, the community enjoys Ravage and considers it the cornerstone of the spec. With this in mind, would the combat team consider making some changes to ensure Vengeance can more easily deal reliable and consistent single target damage in PvE and PvP?
~ArenCordial, I edited this, mainly removing examples of possible fixes, i'm not sure if everyone agrees on what the right fixes would be to these issues.
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Bumping this.
So coming back to what the devs were saying about Focus from the sentinel interview. Focus is balanced around providing excellent AoE. The devs want to eventually come back around and make AoE something that any dps class can do effectively if the situation calls for it, and that would require re-balancing a lot of specs that rely on AoE skills in their single target rotation.
I propose that the entire tree plays the same, with the swap of Blade Storm and Sweep. The goals of these changes:
- Maintain the burst aspect of the spec.
- Remove burst from AoE, and move it to single target.
- Improve single target damage.
- Maintain the "force" theme of the spec.
And the changes:
- Zephyrean Slash redesigned. It now causes Strike, Sundering Strike, Slash, Cyclone Slash and Sweep to reduce the active cooldowns of Zealous Leap, Blade Storm and Combat Focus.
- Felling Blow now affects Blade Storm instead of Sweep.
- Singularity stacks increase the damage of Blade Storm instead of Sweep. No longer reduces focus cost (moved to Force Jump).
- Heightened Power triggers after using Blade Storm instead of Sweep. The damage buff would also need to be increased.
- Agility Training reduces the focus cost of Sweep in addition to its normal effects.
- Maintain the burst aspect of the spec.
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- The Imperial Warlord story arc that covers the defection of Grand Moff Regus. Flashpoint(s) and possibly a new daily area.
- Super secret space project. Datamining suggests it will have a pvp element.
- Bothawui, Sleheyron, Yavin IV and Zoist have been name dropped from datamining, along with class specific entries for most of those planets. Class stories may return, and if not, a lot of this content could end up appearing in a Makeb style faction story arc that covers a few planets. My prediction: level cap raised to 60, patch 3.0, a paid digital expansion.
- The Imperial Warlord story arc that covers the defection of Grand Moff Regus. Flashpoint(s) and possibly a new daily area.
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I don't have the numbers to back it up but I clearly do not remember it this way. We cleared EC HM , back when there was no nightmare level 50, with a shadow and myself several times. Again at this point it is just he said she said...but we never had a problem with our Shadow tank on EC. Not any problem that other tanks were not experiencing.. This was also 8 man though. Not sure about 16 man as we never tried it.
Definitely a thing in nightmare mode. For us it was evident in 8man so I can just assume it was worse in 16 but I can't say for sure.
And the nerf to terminate is just hilarious, behold the solution to all assassin tanks problems! That's right, it was just this one boss ability in the entire game, nothing else! We're fine--we're all fine here now. Thank you. How are you?
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Kephees could on shot any tank back in the day if taunt swaps were not done correctly.
I don't mean touch of the masters, I mean the lizzard lord himself personally evaporating dark ward stacks in two swings and laughing in his nightmare inducing voice as he proceeded to butcher the assassin through his light armor and lolselfheals. Was resolved by kiting a little bit when cooldowns were not up, but it was still hilarious that juggs and pts could pretty much face tank him with good heals.
I remember other raid groups with 2 sins having issues progressing on that fight, they worked around it in the end, but It was a lot simpler with a Jugg/PT co tank.
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Yes, mean mitigation, which has nothing to do with the current sin/shadow complaints. In fact, to correct the issue, many have suggested reducing sin/shadow mean mitigation so they're no longer king of the hill there.
Yep.
I still wonder if they are going to nerf specific bosses though instead of direct class adjustments. Bioware seems to be in lust with their TTK models for tanks. This convinces me that tank survivability was so well balanced before 2.0 due to inflated gear stats and conservative boss damage. The exception being Nightmare Kephess the assassin killer.
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Operatives have some of the highest damage potential in the game, so thier utility is irrelevant.
That is really the crux of the issue. To me, operatives are exactly where they should be in relation to snipers and marauders, and its where we should be too. Every single dps class should be directly competitive with snipers and marauders.
Bloodthirst and Sniper bubble is enough of a reason to bring those classes. I don't think "utility" like this is what we need, because that would be impeding on the niche these two specialized dps AC's have. There isn't supposed to be a hybrid tax, but these classes should bring a unique buff due to being *locked* into dps with no alternatives.
We just need reliably equivalent dps to these classes, any other perceived utility to the group should just be extra flavor, and not a direct consideration for balancing purposes.
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I can confirm that the slow and heat cost reduction on prototype flame thrower are stacking. Combined, a three stack flame thrower is 18 heat and applies a 90%(?) movement speed debuff along with the usual +60% damage increase. It was hard to tell if the debuff was exactly 90% (as opposed to the old 70% slow), but it was definitely higher then a 30% movement speed reduction.
The cumulative results of the changes are a direct buff to AP damage output through the improved immolate, crit bonus on rocket punch, surge bonus on flame thrower, and indirectly with heat cost adjustments on flame thrower and prototype cylinder ventilation.
The snare nerf on pyro seems to be misguided. I can see from a design point of view why they would have done it, but it is going to eliminate one of only areas where pyro was remaining somewhat strong, and that was kiting operatives with flame burst spam. pyro continues to lack burst and survivability to be competitive in ranked pvp. I hope to see further changes to pyro on the pts, perhaps reshuffling more of our damage to thermal detonator's explosion, giving us a reason to use incendiary missile and giving automated defenses some love.
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hehe.
It would appear that you do not pvp. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but we should perhaps rest on this. Our rep has stated he'll be submitting questions shortly.
You can't bring up enraged defense without mentioning the threat drop component (its our only threat drop). I think its reasonable to merge it, even if the primary concern is its use as a defensive cooldown in PvP. For example:
PvP) Enraged Defense is a strange ability, as it is one of the few (only?) defensive / threat management cooldowns in the game that costs resources to use. As a defensive cooldown, the small healing over time effect seems trivial, and the rage cost disproportionate. Many Juggernauts look to other melee classes and wonder why we have to spend so much of our resource to grant a small reactive heal on an ability with a 1 minute cooldown.
The heal and threat drop comes with a rage cost that's potentially so severe, that it leaves Juggernauts in a position where they have to (counter-intuitively) sacrifice their dps in order to incrementally heal and lower their threat while *being attacked*. In contrast, many dps classes can simply use their defensive cooldown / threat drop ability and continue pumping out damage at lightspeed with no costs of any kind involved.
Would the team consider revamping Enraged Defense into a more compelling defensive cooldown and threat management tool?
For the last question there seems to be a few strong candidates. Do we want the general question to cover a tank specific question for the sake of fairness?. If not, tank specific questions could be transplanted to the Guard rep pve/general questions. As we are up first, the answers to our questions will no doubt influence what their questions end up being.
Low priority, jugg tank specific concerns:
- Blade Turning bug and our pathetic 4p set bonus.
- Generating ranged threat and our heavy reliance on Saber Reflect to do so.
- Vulnerability to knockbacks and snares (related to ranged threat issues too).
- Having to spend rage and a GCD to apply a snare.
And the big one:
Lack of competitive group utility in an operation environment. This has a very strong potential for a non-answer from Bioware because of its general nature, but it is probably the most pressing concern for all dps classes that aren't marauders and snipers atm. I would throw my chips in with ssfish for our general question, even though I don't agree that Powertechs, Assassins and Operatives actually provide any more group utility when strictly compared to dps Juggernauts (at least we bring an armor debuff). The marauder/sniper master race has really gone on for too long, with no clarification from Bioware about where the rest of the dps classes are supposed to fit in. At present they are kings of ranged and melee damage, and provide indispensable group utility in a progression raiding environment.
- Blade Turning bug and our pathetic 4p set bonus.
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The mean mitigation for shadows has always been deceptive, because even though it is traditionally higher when accounting for self healing, self healing itself is reactive and does nothing to soften incoming damage initially. To really take advantage of an assassins strength, you needed a healer who understood how the assassin takes damage.
Assassins are problematic now, but I have pretty strong memories pre 2.0 of our assassin tank being reliably shredded by trenchcutters and gibbed by kephess on the third swap in nightmare ec, issues that didn't occur for jugg or powetech tanks. Was that a sign of things to come?
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There seems to be this outcry for some sort of unique group utility that the jugg can bring to an op. I would resist such a change only because of the precedent it will set for all the other dps classes that aren't snipers and marauders.
I would much rather they aggressively balance the dps output of all the dps classes to be much closer to each other, and let the sniper and mara keep their unique group utility. I see bloodthirst and sniper bubble as being the payoff for those classes only being able to spec for dps. The balance is thrown out the window with the fact that these classes bring this unique utility AND are in a tier of their own in the dps they bring to an operation group.
Let them keep their group buffs, but give all the dps classes relatively equivalent damage output.
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I'm not going to discuss Vanguards/Powertechs because I play the class very little and unlike most people, I can admit my ignorance when it comes to subjects I don't know. For Assassins, here's a nice list of their unique advantages that affect PvE tanking. Of course, I don't actually think they are OP, but here we go, anyways.
1) Require the least amount of external healing due to their abundance of self-healing.
2) Phase Walk makes more healers more productive by giving them a 5% boost to heals to *any* other player while they are inside. Can be maintained most of the time.
3) Assassins gain 2% more healing in general due to Shadow Shelter.
4) The ability to stealth res, which allows their team to win fights that no other tank would have in the same situation.
5) The ability to reset medpacs through stealth, effectively giving them an extra defensive cooldown of 10% or more heal every 2 minutes, depending on the strength of the medpac.
6) Most of their rotation works up to 10 meters, allowing them to tank and do decent damage at mid-range (great for S & V, Dread Guard, and Kephess the Undying sub-10%).
7) Have both a permanent accuracy and damage debuff.
8) Excellent defensive skills in general while having low cooldowns.
These are the most important points, but there are many others I haven't mentioned because they aren't that significant for Operation boss tanking. Abilities like stealth cc and a pull make many other aspects of the game much easier and convenient.
Points 1-3 alone are significant alone, but together, they add up to a huge boon for the healing efficiency for the team. 4-5 showcase the strength of stealth which when used correctly, is an amazing tool for good Shadows/Assassins. 6 makes life so much easier as a tank compared to being a Juggernaught, especially during the aforementioned fights.
7 means Assassins go well with every other tank, including another Assassin, and are especially good for multi-fights where the tanks are split or if the co-tank dies as they can apply both debuffs by themselves. 8 is important as Force Shroud effectively has a 45-50 sec cooldown while being roughly as good defensively as Saber Reflect and they have effectively three 2 minute cooldowns (Deflection, Overcharge Saber, and medpac) as well. Juggernaughts have stronger overall cooldowns, but are on significantly longer timers.
I appreciate the time you took to write this out for me, but did you know that juggs have force shroud too? and they don't get 2 shot.
If saber reflect only worked on melee and ranged, and sins didn't have the rng death issues, I would be happy to call it a day on tank balance and agree with you.
Proposed Dev Juggernaut Questions *Not Final*
in Guardian / Juggernaut
Posted · Edited by Marb
Removing the rage cost and rage consumption from Enraged Defense would be enough to at least make it usable for all specs in PvP. Its annoying that it isn't very good, but the rage costs attached to it restricts its (trivial) use as a defensive cooldown in pvp. This is a safe and reasonable way to come at the question, as this change would have the flow on effect of making it usable as a threat drop in pve.
Charging into the question with the hopes of a revamped enrage defense will probably be met with skepticism.