I think people that complain about this want to be all out DPS speced in a DPS stance. They also want to tunneling and always pushing. They want better survivability so they can continue their bad playing habits and not get killed a lot.

You dont know what you are talking about.

Valor doesnt even matter until you hit 60 so I dont see why this is a problem. Did you honestly think you would be able to get to 60 valor before you hit level 50?

Reduce all incoming damage by 25% for 12 seconds isnt useful?

Falling back IS a way to stay alive especially if you are getting destroyed by melee. Awe is also a tool for staying alive. Im guessing you are talking about being a DPS in a DPS stance, in that case you are right survivability isnt great. Its a little bit better in vigilance, then guardian leap really does increase your survivability. I think the misconception that their survivability is that much worse than any other class comes down to how you play. You are right about sent/marauders they do have much more survivability than a DPS speced guardian. You cant really expect guardians to have as much survivability than them and then also be able to spec as a tank to get even more. Its all CD based also without their CDs they are softer.

The thing is people would be just as effective without the pulls. That pass could be made and the same changed could be made. People are just upset, they are getting beat by better teams and they want to blame imbalance instead of something like their team. I think they should take pulls out of Ilum or heals away from the opposing team if I am not getting any heals. It sickens me when people want to change a game other people like because its not exactly how they want it to be.

Bads cant compete in the game as is. They need the game changed so that they can compete, but in reality they wont fare much better after any change. Hopefully they will realize how bad they are and quit playing. Operatives/Scounrels and Mercs/Mandos are the 2 ACs that dont really have as many advantages as everyone else, even though the latter actually has KBs. Someone still has to DPS or heal while everyone else plays with the ball. Dont ruin the interesting game for everyone else because you want to play too, but refuse to do so by rolling any of the other 6 ACs. Just so people that dont know can actually see how it is. Best Offense Jugg/guarian if the other team has defenders in position Shadow/Sin or Sage/Sorc if they have a clear shot. Mauaders/sents PTs/Vang are also decent. Off the ball Sorc/sages are the best no question. Anyone who knows how to receive a pass or make a pass can also be considered. Best Defense Shadow/Sin or PT/Vang are obviously on top of this list with pulls. Gunslingers/Snipers are very good defenders and can be a impassible road block in the right situation. Steath is a very good weapon on defense because it allows you to counter offense in a way the enemy cant see coming. For that reason I would say that Shadow/Sin is probably the best defender over a PT/Vanguard. Anyone with a CC or KB, which is everone, can kill an offensive drive if they outplay their opponent. There are classes that have more advantages than others, but with so many tools on so many classes no change will really balance Huttball. The only thing you are going to do is change how its balanced and in the process make it less dynamic and less interesting. People need to stop being biased or bad and actually consider what they are asking for.

I understand, but I think refering to the vigilance heavy tank spec as a "hybrid" is a problem because of posts like this.

I am not disputing any of that. My point was just when people talk about a tank spec with heavy Vig I think is misleading to refer to it as a hybrid spec. While it might be a hybrid in points allocated between trees I dont really think its intended as hybrid spec as far as the role its meant to perform. I think people are against the idea of a class speced to perform a "hybrid" role being able to tank better than them. So they arent objective when comparing the two. They are both tank specs.

I find it interesting that the bads are always talking about which classes are OP on Offense, but never the ones that are OP on Defense.

Yes they want to destroy that so they continue to play the way they play now, but be just as effective as everyone else.

I would be more inclined to agree if the OP started at "If you cant handle bugs..."

People understand, but a pull only usable without the ball loses much less effectivness than an ally leap only usable without the ball. If they did get rid of this type of thing they should really just get rid of them across the board in Huttball. Otherwise you arent really doing anything to create balance, you are just creating a different looking imbalance.

My point was more along the lines of, what if this type of thread now bugs me? Should I start a new thread complaining about the people complain about people that complain? I compare MMO forums to a room full of people all shouting at each other while no one listens. Now if you realize thats whats going on, but you participate in the shouting with all of the other idiots, does that really make you any better?

First you have to pinpoint what your point is. From what I can see the point of this thread is to complain about people who complain. So I would say you are probably right, its impossible to complain without complaining. If your point was argue against what some people think is bad about this game, then you should have focused more on one of those subjects and left out all of the complainging. You are complaining.

What you meant to say is people complain INSTEAD OF GIVING constructive criticism.

Where does it end?

I always find myself at a loss for words when I try to describe how my brain feels after having to listen to people complain about other people complaining. OP you are kind of right, but you are not helping.

It is a little disheartening hearing that all they have developed for us so far was based upon the usumption that it wasnt going to be a popular part of this game. Then again we might just be reading too much into that quote. It could just be a lot of fluff wraped around the new content they plan to release.

Bugs and glitches mostly. I guess also a little bit of game design in regards to Ilum and PvP gear progression through quests.

What was the last major MMO that never had faction population problems in world PvP and was a 2 faction game?

There are plenty of ways to do it getting people on the same page is the hard part. If this is an attempt at that, Good Luck.

Yeah scoundrels are probably the least special huttball class. They can still do things though. You will always need DPS and heals. Also its not possible to account for a stun while walking through the fire if you cant see the person. I dont think the fact that you feel like you are at a disadvantage on your class is a good reason to change anything about it. You are free to play one of the other classes. Also like I mentioned I would rather people be given the option to not participate than have Huttball changed. Some people like it some people dont.

I hope they dont is all. I have seen games changed for the worse because people complain that they cant compete in the game as is. I dont play a Sorc/Sage I play something much more OP than a sorc/sage in Huttball and 2classes that have no unique advantage in Huttball and do well with all of them.

I think I cried the day they took out Tor Anroc.