Ozzone
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Posts posted by Ozzone
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I think PvP is working just fine
I stopped reading there.
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Unlike some of you, I actually did go and read the whole thread.
First of all, I have learned a long time ago that game forums are full of liars. While there's no proof that this happened at all... many of you are taking the OP's post as truth. While I'm not going to call the OP a liar, I am also not going to accept what he posted as truth. Like some of you have said, where's the proof?
Ok, just for this discussion, let's assume that the OP did tell the truth and it did happen. Like some others have also said that there's more to the story than the OP is telling. Again, we don't know and there's a good chance we only heard part of the story.
But, let's pretend that it happened exactly the way the OP stated. The problem is the game mechanics and poor design. BW puts a boss in a PvP area that requires a full, or nearly full, ops group to take down a boss which isn't much different than any other PvE boss encounter. There's the problem right there. Mixing PvE content with PvP content is messy. Having NPCs near bases is not that bad of an idea, but putting a world boss in the middle of a PvP area and setting up spawn points within a 30sec trip is ridiculous.
Someone has said, just wipe them and go back to the boss. The problem is that a world boss fight usually takes longer than it takes for players to respawn and run back. Wiping them would be a great idea except that they can quickly come back and harass over and over. Make it so that if a player dies, they either get a combat rez or have to respawn a considerable distance from the boss. Making the respawn trip longer would help but it doesn't address the root problem - PvE raid level content in a PvP area. Get rid of it.
Solution. Get rid of the world bosses altogether (and offer the loot drop some other way) or move the bosses to a non-PvP area (protected world like Dromund Kaas for example). Make it so that a raid encounter doesn't involve dealing with gutless PvPers that don't really want to PvP (which seems to be exactly what the OP was doing) but instead see how much they can grief.
Like others have said, put an objective there, not a mean *** world boss that a ops group can easily wipe to because of a game mechanic that allows one or small group of players to grief a large group OVER AND OVER. Mixing PvE raid lvl content in a PvP area is just stupid. PvP should be PvP. A small group of players, or just one player, should not be able to kill a raid EVER. This would never happen in true PvP, but it does happen because it's PvEvP.
Lastly, if there is any PvE content in a PvP area, it should be limited to NPCs that assist in defense only. Not a raid lvl NPC.
BW, get rid of the world bosses in PvP areas.
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I agree that dots should end when the player (who cast the dot) dies. I don't agree to remove them from game especially with how bad tab targeting is.
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Sometimes I'm glad that some people leave the WZ. I got into an Alderaan with the score 350 to 280 with the other side controlling a side and middle. I spawned when 4 other players were respawning and as soon as they finished the speeder ride, started running to the right turret. I stopped, took about 15 seconds and typed:
WE HAVEN'T LOST YET, EVERYONE HIT CENTER
Yes, in all caps. Luckily I have a good rep on my server (from WZs and Ilum) and people listen to me. The 4, that were heading to the right turret stopped 1/3 of the way there and turned around and headed back to center. There were only 2 reds there guarding. We went in and wiped them in about 20 secs (after I stunned the healer). I then typed:
INTERCEPT INCOMING AWAY FROM TURRET
Amazing, they listened and stopped the 4 incoming reds away from the turret while I capped it. A long battle ensued and the other side almost recapped it but I managed to dot the 3 at the turret before they could.
We won 10-0. I got 4 MVP votes, not because I got medals (only got 3) but because they all remembered me turning the tide of battle for a win.
One of the best warzones I ever did and was proud of all the rest of my team for discarding chaotic fighting and focusing on the objective.
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Bag 80+ BM
in PvP
remember 25% game wide not account wide.That is not what Gabe said. He clearly stated that each bag has a 25% chance, not some average in totals.
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Bag 80+ BM
in PvP
Are you trying to say, that if I open up a bag with a 25% chance to have an item....then repeat it 100 times that the overall chance of ending up with zero items is 75%? I hope not, because that's incorrect if so.Theoretically, you could open 100 bags and not get a single item but the odds are astronomical.
Here's what I did. I set up a VB module that generates a number 1, 2, 3 or 4. The probability of getting a 1 is 25% each time. However, in order for it to be completely random, the generator must be reseeded with a different seed value each time or else randomness becomes less random.
I run the code simulating 10 different players. I have seen variances of success vary greatly from as high as 45% down to 13% to get 18 comms. Usually it runs between the 20%-30% range. The "B"s represent a 1 and the dashes represent a 2, 3 or 4. In order to get 25%, 72 bags need to be opened.
- Bags Opened: 74 Chance: 24.32% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 10
Rolls: -B-------BB-B-B--------B----BB-----B------B---BB------B----------BB--B-B-B
Bags Opened: 87 Chance: 20.69% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 14
Rolls: ------------B----B--BB--B-B--------B------B-BB------B-----B--------------B-B---BB---B-B
Bags Opened: 64 Chance: 28.13% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 8
Rolls: B---B---B--------B----BB--B-B-BB--B--------BB-BB-B-----B-------B
Bags Opened: 61 Chance: 29.51% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 8
Rolls: ----B----B-B---B--B----BB-BB--B-B-------BB-B-B--------B----BB
Bags Opened: 87 Chance: 20.69% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 12
Rolls: -----B------B---BB------B----------BB--B-B-B------------B----B--BB--B-B--------B------B
Bags Opened: 58 Chance: 31.03% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 9
Rolls: -----B--BB----B--B-B--B---BB-B---------B---B----BBBBB----B
Bags Opened: 46 Chance: 39.13% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 4
Rolls: -BBBB-B---B--B--BB--B--B-B---BBB---B----B----B
Bags Opened: 94 Chance: 19.15% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 12
Rolls: B--B---------BBB-BB-----B------------B----B-B-------B-------B--------BB---------B------B-----B
Bags Opened: 67 Chance: 26.87% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 13
Rolls: ---------B--B-B-B---B-B-BBB---BB---BB-------------B--B---B-----B--B
Bags Opened: 52 Chance: 34.62% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 9
Rolls: B----B--B-B--B---BB-B---------B---B----BBBBB----B-BB
Notice #7 and #8? Player #7 was extremely lucky getting 18 comms out of only 46 bags (39.13%) while #8 was extremely unlucky getting 18 comms out of 94 bags. Note especially the bad luck streak of 12 bags in a row.
I've tested this running 10, 100, 1,000 and 10,000 player simulations. It doesn't matter per individual player but the more I run it, the more the average gets closer to 25% exactly. However, Gabe himself didn't state anything about an average, he clearly stated that each BAG has a 25% chance to have a comm in it. This implies to me that they reseed the generator every single time (which makes logical sense and is easy to code).
However, I had my doubts that this was the case because I, myself, have opened 45 champ bags and only got one piece. It's easy to say I'm just unlucky, but the odds of this happening are astronomical (I could calculate it but shouldn't have to). It further confused me when others (that I know aren't lying) tell me their success rate is more like 1 out of 10 than 1 out of 4. The odds of me having that bad of luck and others having the same problem are too high to count.
Note that Gabe, nor anyone else at BW, has mentioned any changes to the RNG but simply state they won't change it and it's 25% (implied now, not past). For all we know, it could have been 20% the day before, or even less. It's easy for them to manipulate the outcome. The most concerning thing to me was this statement:
Originally Posted by A4-I4Greetings All,
We apologize for this issue, it is a known one and it is due to be resolved in a future patch at some point after 1.1.3
Protocol Droid A4-I4 | BioWare Customer Service - Forum Support
It wasn't long before that post got edited and we got left with this...
The chance for a Battlemaster Commendation to be in a Battlemaster Bag is NOT changing. It is still 25%.Note, he doesn't say it wasn't changed ever, just that it isn't changing now from 25%. For all we know, he could have changed the code right before he made the post (plausible deniability). We have no way of knowing. It's obvious that a lot of damage control ensued after that CS rep made his post. Look at this thread: LINK
I have seen, using the RNG method I used, bad streaks in excess of 30 bags but those are extremely rare. Typically I see between 8-10 bags opened sequentially without comms in each simulation. Sometimes I see clusters of 3-4 bags in a row that have a comm. Again, that is not common.
Sometimes very few (3-4 no comms) and sometimes a lot (12-14 no comms) drop. However, the odds increase incrementally. Unlucky is one thing, to hit astronomical odds is another especially when others are hitting it also.
- Bags Opened: 74 Chance: 24.32% Longest Bad Luck Streak: 10
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Bag 80+ BM
in PvP
11 commendations / 80+ BM Bags.. thought they said 25%?Obviously you have no clue how a RNG works. BW has clearly stated that it's a 25% chance of getting a BM Comm from a bag.
Not that you should get 25% success of all bags opened.
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Remove Hutball.
I stopped reading right there. Remove one decent team warzone and leave us with two crappy ones?
Things are bad enough with PvP in this game without removing something that makes it only worse.
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On my server which is a PvE server there is a Republic guild that constantly do PvP. Very few of them have gone past lvl 35 on thier respective class stories and simply leveled via PvP. If they love PvPing so much why are they on a PvE server. I can not play PvP or my husband and enjoy it due to seeing them always playing as a group in darn near every battleground. I am sick of getting ganked by them when that is all they do. They need to go to a PvP server if they love to PvP so much. It has totally taken the fun out of PvPing for my husband and I.
They PvP on a PvE server because they are a bunch of wusses that love griefing care bears and consider it a big win if the care bears post about it.
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Well, I know Bioware can't anticipate everything that happens in PvP, but in the Rules of Conduct, players "may not engage in any of the following behavior: 20. Do anything that interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic"
Well I guess everyone violates the rules in Ilum because they are directly contributing to the slideshow which I know no one enjoys.
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Maybe your luck is good but an rng is exactly that...... Random
Exactly. It's the conditional coding immediately after that isn't.
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IM sorry I see nothing but fail in your idea. Ill just assume by the way you talk about Ilum that your IMP. You think republic likes turtling at base? HArd to have fair fight when imps out number repubs 2-1 or more.
There's nothing fail in my idea. Yes I am Imperial and I know that Imperial players outnumber Republic players about 2 to 1 on my server. As I clearly stated, it would only be a short-term fix. I know that the population is imbalanced.
Correcting imbalance is going to take a fundamental change in the game which would require considerable amount of development. As long as players have complete freedom to choose their faction, as the game stands now, there will always be more Empire than Republic on PvP servers. That is an entirely different discussion.
The caps could be worked out to minimize the imbalance in each instance of Ilum. The toughest part of my idea would be the manipulation of caps to ensure that both sides are fairly equal in numbers.
In order for my idea to work, would require coding an interface that people could queue up for entrance into Ilum PvP. Allow ops groups to queue. When they are balanced on both sides with a MINIMUM OF 12 PLAYERS EACH, launch the instance. Only allow more to join equally for both sides.
Unlike a warzone though, once you enter the instance there is no timer. As long as both sides are balanced, valor will award like I stated above. Should one side start losing numbers en masse, for whatever reason, cancel valor tics. The next part is tricky, one idea is to decrease valor substantially and to offer players on the majority side an option to switch to another instance to balance it out. This coding would be fairly complex but doable.
For example. Ilum1 has 2 full ops groups of Imperials and 2 full ops groups of Republics. 12 players on the Republic side leave the instance. Now it's 48 to 36. Decrease valor for Imperials by 25%. Basically decrease valor about 2% for the dominant side.
48 to 24 - less 50% valor.
If one side reaches 50% of players vs. the other side, again allow the majority side players to change instances.
Eventually players will come to realize that balancing out instances provides the most valor gains and will adjust. Let's say you are there solo or with a couple other guildies, it would be in your benefit to leave that instance and join one that is more balanced. Large guild heavy ops groups might find it more difficult because they want to stay together as an ops group but it's too large to move entirely to another instance.
Like I said, there's possibilities and there's potential issues with anything.
Limit instance changes to once every 10 mins (so people don't find some way to abuse it).
The idea that you would make it so being stuck at your base gets you ZERO valor while the tam farming you gets extrea... Yup sounds like IMP logic to me. Slso sounds like the logic that cost BIO 300k subs after the first month.The idea that being stuck at a base would only apply if players had no way to get out of their base. Not only do they have two exits far enough apart, but taxis. They stay in the base because they can get valor that way. Even if they aren't outnumbered. Are you proposing that they can continue to get valor by playing turtle?
Anything you want to do to ILum to make a better open world PVP has to be combined with something to help out the less populated side. Otherwsie we will have a repeat of the of the JAn 20 patch where IMPs becasuse of thier numbers will get easy reward system.As I previously stated, restricting caps and using balance design would not require any form of bolstering to one side.
I came from WArHammer where they had a pretty deccent open world PVP system.I would like o see something similar. Reward taking a major point on the map not just with a valor bonus that is useless to anyone over 60 valor like my self but with a epic chest that maybe drops BM token or champ tokens.
I agree. Capturing a point and holding it 5 mins pops a chest in the middle of the point. Exactly how that would be implemented needs more discussion. Maybe have the chest drop one epic and only that class can roll need.
Another option is to award commendations (cent and champ). Maybe 4 cent and 2 champ. Can't be much or people will farm it too much.
Give both. A chest and comms.
Build it and they will come.
Open world pvp can be fixed but you need to stop trying to make thins "even" The game is not even one sides has much more people and you need to take that into consideration when comming up a plan for Ilum because "even" is not "even"No, I disagree 100%. You have to make things even FOR NOW. Fixing faction imbalance is a massive undertaking and may be almost impossible as long as people have freedom to choose. My idea again is a short-term fix.
It helps with FPS by spreading out battles. I have much less lag when in open areas than I do around the door.
It keeps the sides fairly balanced and thus encouraging more open PvP and less turtling especially by not awarding valor inside your base.
It provides decent valor and increases greatly when both sides choose to engage. Of course valor 60 players won't be as needy for valor but they still want it (I do).
It provides rewards to capture a point and hold it.
It provides a bag reward to capture the others base.
It would not take a ton of developers and a long time to implement. That is the main point. It's doable.
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There has been never-ending discussion on what to do about Ilum (or open PvP in general). I just wanted to throw my idea in which I believe is the best short-term solution.
So many ideas have already been presented. I have looked at many. Here's my proposal:
The main problem with Ilum is there's no incentive to fight at control points. While some battles do take place, all too often one side (which is always Republic on my server) turtles at their base door way too much. It then turns into the "see who can pull who" camp fest. People get so bored with this that they go afk all too often. Not to mention the lag seems to be worse near base entrances.
BASIC PLAN
To offset that, make it very worthwhile to control more points and hold them. Each control point a side captures, and controls for 5 minutes, locks the previous captured control point. For example, if Republic captures Center and holds it for 5 mins, this locks South. If they capture North and hold for 5 mins, it locks Center. However, Republic can never lock North which gives Empire the opportunity to push them back to Center by capturing North.
This helps concentrate battles near control points. Recapturing points can only be done in order except when their base is captured then the defending side can recapture the nearest point (South for Republic and North for Empire). If they do, the attacking side loses both the base and that point and now has to defend Center.
For example. Empire controls all points and are at the Republic Base. A contingent of Republics attacks South and captures it. Now Empire only controls their own base, North and Center. Republic can push and attack Center and Empire has to go defend. If Republic captures Center, they can now attack North and push back up to the Empire base.
Increase the cast time on the rockets (that players use to cap) to at least 30 seconds (to give the defending side time to at least get to the control point). The attacking side needs to hold them off long enough for the rocket shooters time to finish (without being interrupted).
Controlling points (other than base) gets constant tics of valor every 5 minutes for players near the unlocked control points.
Players must be near a control point to receive it. A player doesn't have to be in combat at that moment, but cannot be in AFK status to receive it. Here's how valor is given:
VALOR
Republic gets no valor tics for controlling their base.
Republic gets 10 tics of valor for controlling South.
Republic gets 60 tics of valor for controlling Center (10 + 50 for center).
Republic gets 70 tics of valor for controlling North. (60 + 10 for north).
Republic gets 100 tics of valor for controlling Republic Base. (70 + 30 for base).
Empire gets no valor tics for controlling their base.
Empire gets 10 tics of valor for controlling North.
Empire gets 60 tics of valor for controlling Center (10 + 50 for center).
Empire gets 70 tics of valor for controlling South. (60 + 20 for north).
Empire gets 100 tics of valor for controlling the Republic Base. (70 + 30 for base).
BASE CAPTURE
If one side controls the other's base for 15 mins, the zone resets, all control points become neutral and all players in the PvP area are given the opportunity to teleport back to their base to regroup. In addition, as a reward, the side that controlled the zone when it resets gets a bag and bonus valor equivalent to 10x their valor rank.
Players will still be able to get valor for kills anywhere as they do now and must be in combat at the following rate:
1 control point = 10
Center control point = 60
3 control points = 70
Base control point = 100
As you can see, valor will add up considerably during combat and reward the stronger force.
Put Centurion, Champion and Battlemaster vendors in the bases.
Add daily/weekly terminals (just like on fleet) in the actual bases.
Add (direct to fleet) shuttles in the bases so players can quickly go back and forth to fleet.
Have War Hero gear implemented soon.
Reduce the damage of the base cannons but still make them deal out decent damage to give the defending team an advantage. Once activated (only by defending side), they can be shot 30 times with a 3 minute cooldown. One idea I had was make each shot that hits a player do about 2k damage for any targets in the direct line of fire.
OPERATION GROUPS
To ensure equality, cap the zone at 2 ops groups per side for a maximum of 96 players. This should help reduce some lag as players won't be clustered around a base door. While FPS will always be an issue (until they fix it if they ever do), it is less of one when players are out in open areas fighting. My FPS is better away from the base.
Develop a Ilum Ops Interface, via an NPC at their base, that shows the different instances (Ilum 1, 2, 3 etc.) and how many of each side are in them. Allow full size ops groups (or partial groups) to join whichever instance they want. This will provide immense flexibility for guilds to create their own full or partial ops groups and join with allies easily and quickly Without having to go to leave the PvP area.
SUMMARY
What I have proposed above does not involve a lot of development and actually should be simple to do. It's not perfect, but would be a great start. It won't completely fix open PvP but it would be a dramatic improvement to what it is now.
Thoughts?
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The OP is a perfect example of why the game needs a 30min+ deserter debuff. I seriously can't believe you posted this. Were you actually expecting people to side with you? Pathetic.
The only way they are going to stop this is to implement some form of penalty for deserting. Maybe a 15 min debuff AND a loss of Valor of some kind. The problem gets tricky because BW doesn't allow people to pick which wz they want to queue for.
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Here's exactly what I'm thinking...
I better get friggin credit for this win this time.
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Rerolling on a different server is a crappy solution. It's even worse if you're in a guild.
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Honestly, if you are talking about replacing everything but the video card (also assume you mean mouse, keyboard and monitor), I suspect $600 is going to fall a little short unless you cut some corners on quality. Look to spend around $800 at least to get a good gaming machine.
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Lack of combat log really makes me feel sad... I am a huge fan of number crunching and overall it's just good to know WHAT killed you when you are in certain situations.
I suspect the reason a lot of people are against it is that it's more than just a means for you to see what dmg you are taking. Many guilds use it as a rule to gauge performance for raids. That's a double-edged sword. One side is that if a player is putting out low dps or healing, they are hurting the raid. The other side is that good players are not asked to go to raids because they aren't maximizing their damage/healing even if they are contributing a lot to the overall raid.
Too many people put too much emphasize in the numbers. Example is seeing people brag about their huttball dmg or healing and yet their team still loses. I've been in many WZ matches and see players ignoring the ball carrier and focusing on just seeing how much damage they can put out.
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As has been discussed over and over, only Biochem offers a true end-game crafting option. Unlike other crafting skills, which are surpassed simply by doing enough end-game PvE or PvP and acquiring gear better than crafting material, Biochem will maintain it's dominance.
Unless...
What I propose is an overhaul of the crafting system and make expert crafters still a instrumental part of the game even when players are 50 and raiding/pvping.
Here is what I call a simple solution to a complex problem. So simple, in fact, that it could very well solve the problem.
In a raid or when a boss is dropped, instead of the player getting an item, they get a BOP schematic. Just like any other crafted item, it will require mats to actually craft.
Now, create a new interface window called CRAFT. Make it a simple window that a master crafter can open. In that window are slots for the schematic and the necessary mats. The player with the schematic drags it to the schematic slot. Either the player or the crafter puts in the mats. The player has the option to accept or cancel. If he clicks Accept, the crafter has the option to craft or cancel. If he clicks Craft, the item is crafted and returned to the player. The crafter never has ownership of the schematic or mods (except the ones he put in) in the window. The window is simply a tool to allow a player to get a crafter to make the end-game crafted item.
Another thing, put in the ability to generate an augment slot during the craft process. Make it a proc (semi-rare).
In essence, make end-game drops craftable. Make the schematic specific to the needed master crafting skill (Armormech, Armstech, Cybertech, Artifice, etc.) Label the schematic (Requires 400 Cybertech), etc.
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This is an excellent thread and I hope Bioware pays attention to it.
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Complaining about the complainers...always a classic.
Complaining about complaining about complainers is epic.
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People that want to keep comparing SWTOR to WOW and saying WOW is/was better should go back to playing WOW.
The rest of us will not miss you.
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Well, there have been people posting forged emails supposedly from Bioware, or claiming that Bioware said "X" to them when Bioware later said that was false.
Case in point. LINK
People not being worth valor is faction wide. Not player specific. Dumb mechanic
in PvP
Posted
I agree, not getting valor should only apply to the players that recently got valor from him.
The whole point of this was BW's answer to stop the valor trading going on. Instead of coding it to only apply to the actual players involved, they went the lazy route. Just make him worthless to everyone for a time.