Yes Hard Mode and Nightmare being too easy is a real issue. That does not mean that this topic is not, nor that it is insignificant.

this topic has already been posted, and has 5 pages going... please continue this there to have the most people in one thread so the Dev's will sit up and take notice that we WANT 16 mans harder. here is the thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2967836#post2967836

I know what TOGC was trying to do.... it just failed. It is, almost unanimously, considered the worst tier of WoW raids in recent history. It wasn't because of just the fights, because they were fine it just lacked any real sense of accomplisment. I think trash has a role in this because it adds to the landscape (and this hurt ToC too because there was none really) for a bigger stage and environment. In this respect I think SWTOR does very well. Eternity Vault is very diverse and pretty damn awesome I think in terms of feel, immersion, ect. But all this is off topic.....

A boss only instance with no trash...... Don't remind me of THE single worst raiding "tier" in WoW..... TOC!!! Trash actually adds to the encounters/overall feel. Now granted too much trash is dumb too.

I think you are talking about 4 man Hard Mode flashpoints. Like the "false emperor". Yes they do have a ton of trash, but once you get some gear and players with you who are likewise they go decently fast. You can do hard mode Black talon in under 15-20 minutes (granted it's the easiest). This thread is directed at 8 and 16 man operations. Specifically Karaggas Palace, and Eternity Vault. Perhaps I misunderstood you, in which case my apologies.

I think many people are feeling this way. At least the hardcore raiders.

From the recent Q&A panel the last question and answer are as follows: Lexiekaboom: 16 man Operations are much harder than 8 man Operations (to the point where most guilds can easily clear hard mode 8 man before being able to clear 16 man easy mode) but there is no loot difference at all to doing them. It's better to send your 16 man raid force to clear two 8 man instances .Is this oversight or design? What will be done to offset this in the future? Gabe Amatangelo: This is not per design. The teams have been addressing this in the weekly patches to some degree and more so in Game Update 1.2. It is intended that 16 player mode is slightly easier than 8 player mode due to the fact that getting and coordinating 16 players is a larger hurdle in and of itself. I would like to make a plea to the Dev's in regards to this and hope that like minded individuals will respond. Please DO NOT make 16 man operations easier than 8 man. I would venture to say that a vast majority of guilds that chose to do 16 man content is because they prefer the challenge. I know this is the case for my guild. If a guild set out from the start to be a solely 16 man guild then they probably did so expecting a stiffer challenge. The ideal situation would be for the two size of raids to be equal in difficulty, as well as equal in rewards. Or even better yet I would love the WOLTK model of the bigger raids being harder, as well as getting better rewards. I like the challenge. I like the prestige of completing harder content, and the rewards that come with that. As it stands right now 16 man content IS harder and I like that. Now there are a few exceptions where 8 man SOA is harder than 16 in my opinion, as well as fabricator droid in Karaggas is harder on 8 man as well. Other than that 16's are as difficult or more so than 8's. I like this, and I'm bothered by the response to the question posted in the Q&A. I don't want the easier route. Yes getting 16 people on the same page is harder than 8. This much is true, but if people were already committed to 16's I bet they were already planning on and expecting a bigger challenge so it is accepted and welcomed. So again I plea to the Dev's to NOT make 16's easier than 8's. Make them equal or keep them harder. I hope most 16 man guilds would agree.

Thanks for the advice. We tried many different ways. In 8 man it ended up everyone just went as fast as we could after pre-determining the fastest route to solving it. It bugged three times and then worked, and then we cleared the rest of the instance with 1 shots. 8 man is so laughably easy. The 16 man fight is still very easy (in terms of add management and such) and would have been a one shot had it not been for bugs. You can see this is a extremely common issue if you take a peek in the flashpoint/ops section of the forum. We don't post 8 man progress on our site because it's not what we focus on. It is, in my opinion, not challenging in the least so we focus on 16 man raids because they provide a bit more challenge (although hard modes are still not that hard imo), and therefore that is what we have reported on our site after less than 6 hours of raid time in 16 mans. We have spent one night in 16 man normal, and cleared it. Then we spent one night in 16 man hard modes and would have easily been 4/5 16 man hard mode had it not been for bugs. I have seen the strat you put forth say it is working for others as well so I'm certainly not discounting your point as it has clearly worked for you, and your guild. I've also seen numerous ones that say the exact opposite and 50 variations of them all. The bottom line is that encounter is buggy.

I love how the "hardcore crafters" (sorry that still makes me lol) have turned this into a elitist bashing thread. The question/topic of the thread was pretty simple. Does Armstech currently have a worthwhile benefit to endgame raiding when compared to Biochem? In my opinion the clear answer is; No. Now if someone wants to argue that BW will add patterns and viability to the profession in subsequent patches then that is a valid, although speculative, point of view. If you're here to cry "OMG just let them choose what profession they want. We crafters are passionate about letting our companions craft stuff" rant please take your diatribe to another thread because this one is not for you and, frankly, most raiders don't care about your point of view. Especially not in a game where "crafting" is so simple and dumbed down anyone could do it if they wanted to. As for the the chick who calls our progression laughable, we have had TWO 3 hour raids in 16 man. And having full cleared 8 man hard modes 16 man is much harder than 8 (as it should be). In that short time we have managed to clear EV, and KP, as well as down the first two bosses on hard mode before the pylons went buggy on us and we ran out of time resetting and re-clearing trash. Is that bleeding edge progression? No. However for less than 6 hours of raiding time we have gotten done quite a bit, and have managed to keep our real life full rather than spending 30 hours a week pushing progression. That is, after all, the purpose of our guild. To be efficient and good in the very little time we have. Had you bothered to figure that out before your rant you would have realized it. So please take your insults elsewhere.

I'm OK with Hidden strike getting nerfed. The thing here that irks me about this is the Acid blade nerf. While hidden strike is a PVP (mainly) ability the 50% acid blade nerf effects PVE in a pretty big way. This is the thing I hate about games that balance classes around PvP. I know it has to be done, but it hurts the viability of the raiders. In my opinion if you are going to take away the burst give back some sustained damage in turn to level it out for the raiders. I love to PvP too and now with people getting lots of expertise OP's are not nearly as OP as they used to be.

/singed Stealth bar would be nice. We can't customize bars very much so this addition would be nice.

The auto distribution is just dumb. I know it ultimately amounts to a roll (random chance), but to not give the players a chance to roll or not makes it feel like we are much less in control. Top top that off the masterloot is just broken. I'm an officer in my guild and I handle most of the loot. This needs to be changed. /signed.

It is meant to illustrate two eyes with tears coming out of them... So otherwise crying, or complaining about something.

Actually this is all "free" time. It is an issue though. However, you might be posting out of frustration. Just guessing.