I think you might have something there, the healer without a guard is weak and could go down quickly. I included the sage in the 4v4 above to slow the maras somewhat with cc to allow the dps to eat the heal.

This is a great topic, Maras/Sents are great when stacked few other classes have the tools that they have. Stacked Maras can out dps most other classes while preventing escape. I have struggled with this same thing if anyone has any ideas how to solve it? Also similar case with multiple ops. The other day I ran into a post mentioning that wz were going to become 2 classes Maras Mara support. If this post does not have an answer then it appears so. I will throw out a first idea. 1 sage (slows and cc), commando heal (heals), 2 vanguards for shield (dps) could this take out 3 maras and a healer of their choice?

The crits make me cringe.... lol nice vid though.

My thoughts on Commando and vanguard are as such. Heals=Armor Commando have cast time/no cast time dps trees Vanguard have short and mid range dps trees A commando pvp build has to include heals in its build. This is what I am thinking, what do you think. (I know management of resources is difficult though not impossible) Which depends on procs http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800bfMz0zZrcoMMZbIMrzh.1 OR Which depends on a cast but is not resource management intensive http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800bfR00zZrckrM0bZbIMbz.1

I have opened around 30-60 (stopped counting at 30) champ bags and have gotten exactly 1 token. The random system is broken imo.

This guy is a forum troll (a very persistent one).

What are the vanguards counters then? They lock down cast classes. Better at melee range. offensive cooldown. Only thing I can think of is not being able to get out of combat situation. (cant pick and choose fights)

That would not get you the 31/31/31 lol.... nice try solution add 9.

Does the vanguard have problems with melee? The commando can be specced to have 2 throwbacks and a slow so perhaps less trouble with melee than vanguard?

Commando Pros: can toss up heals gets an instant cast. (going to be used on plasma grenade) With a hybrid can get access to grav for buff to high impact, and a full auto that could proc a second bolt. (bolt will have 30+35 armor penetration) Vanguard Takes more damage Gets an absurd amount of stuns or interupts with its spec Better looking (not heavily weighed) High crit rate ability similar to sage. Who wins in a fight between an assualt commando and vanguard?

8| trolling aint easy...

Dude I have thread where I would appreciate your input if you have the time. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=343765&page=2

Yes any casting class would be shut down against a vanguard without a doubt (without burning the defensive cooldown). Would an assault commando have the same problem?

Are the interupts making the vanguard spec OP?

I prefer a mobile gameplay, I can los, kite and hit buttons with fluid motion. Why would a vanguard own a commando with the same spec? It should come down to the differences between them where a vanguard has more armor, harpoon, interupts offensive cooldown and a commando should have heals more damage defensive cooldown

What is gear dependent on the vanguard? The commando is very similar would not they both benefit from it?

Previous I pvped with a Sage- (telekinetic- 31 pt build yeah!) respeced to hybrid (:|) did not like it. I am playing a trooper and would like to go with assualt spec or a hybrid. Cant decide between commando and vanguard. I will go dps. Commando Pros: can toss up heals gets an instant cast. (going to be used on plasma grenade) With a hybrid can get access to grav for buff to high impact, and a full auto that could proc a second bolt. (bolt will have 30+35 armor penetration) Vanguard Takes more damage Gets an absurd amount of stuns or interupts with its spec Better looking (not heavily weighed) High crit rate ability similar to sage. Who wins in a fight between an assualt commando and vanguard? I think the vanguard though with the right build would this always be the case? Also what are your thoughts on plasma cell and its slow effect to ruin melee that try to get on you?

Previous I pvped with a Sage- (telekinetic- 31 pt build yeah!) respeced to hybrid (:|) did not like it. I am playing a trooper and would like to go with assualt spec or a hybrid. Cant decide between commando and vanguard. I will go dps. Commando Pros: can toss up heals gets an instant cast. (going to be used on plasma grenade) With a hybrid can get access to grav for buff to high impact, and a full auto that could proc a second bolt. (bolt will have 30+35 armor penetration) Vanguard Takes more damage Gets an absurd amount of stuns or interupts with its spec Better looking (not heavily weighed) High crit rate ability similar to sage. Who wins in a fight between an assualt commando and vanguard? I think the vanguard though with the right build would this always be the case? Also what are your thoughts on plasma cell and its slow effect to ruin melee that try to get on you?

Sages/Sorcs are one of a few classes that need a nerf and buff. They will nerf the hybrid and buff the 31 pt build. The damage trees need to have harder hitting attacks that cost more force. It would solve players mentioning that the class hits like soggy fries and people qq that a sage does not run out of force.

I do not have as much experience as you with commando but below is my suggestion. A hybrid build taking the additional throwback to keep them at range but not as far to get harpooned. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800ZMIkbRMdokZbIbrzh.1 Progression of battle would be 1) Fire dot 2) Plasma grenade (the interupt would probably be here) 3) grav round x2 (if interupted go on to the next, it wont matter to much) 4) sticky (for added burst though not necessary) 5) bolt 6) full auto maybe proc with bolt again. 7) hammer shot because your probably out of ammo, though they are probably dead or running (use armor penetration that way you can get the most out of boltx2) Build would run out of ammo quick though, I think this progression would hit like a cruise boat.

I enjoy the nerf v nerf on these forums.

I am guessing by reading this that you do see my point. Yes commandos have no option to cut a battle short. Once it starts they have to finish it, they are balanced around this and as such few classes can compete with them in a straight battle. Commandos are given 1 stun which logic would say is to stop a class from running away. A sages goal is to extend the battle to do this they get stun, slow, mezz, bubble etc. Mind you this is only the hybrid a full 31 pt build wears a gimp suit with crap abilities (disturbance- lol hurray I got a free telewave while someone is facerolling me). Good players would not allow someone to dictate the battle if a Sage is then your being outplayed and you should lose. Hybrid sages (unspecced) cannot heal through damage there is knockback a 3 sec heal would take much more than 3 secs. Not to mention if a sage runs once the short cds for the commandos on the instants would be over. Compare to hybrid healer spec of commando. (possibly the best pvp build in the game). The sage is meant to go in and out of range providing slowing,dotting and damage support. The class is not op. Sure a sage gets 40 kill per game but each person was probably hit for 3k. I wish treads like this were more about fixing sages especially the supposedly op hybrid built (It should not exist). As it and healer and hybrid are the only viable builts. Sages are a stat padding class that are useful in huttball and were useful in defense with dots (patch hurt sages and commandos)

I would agree that Guardians need a buff though not as large as what was suggested. I tend to be able to 1v1 them with a sage so its probably not intentional or the people that play them need to l2p.

Sorry about the long delay in response. Yes it was a serious reply. Basics: The distance of a sage pushback is shorter than commando (spec), also the commandos has no animation delay (which may or may not be intentional). The meat: The Gun spec is the only one that needs the extra push back as you mentioned the other class is much more mobile. Gun spec though still benefits from some important mobile skills. high impact bolt, hammershot. Are the same as a sages dot where a sage has to be specced for instant damage. The sages big hitting dot has a 1.5 sec cast time (or alternative as proc) the commandos (correct spec) is instant right out of the gate. What does this mean? Lets compare a hybrid commando and sage. Well high impact bolt (1500 mitigatable), hammershot(670-800 mitigatable) and Incendiary (900 elemental) (sticky grenade 900 mitigatable)(/=) sages small dot (2167 mitigatable),and instant (700). Which for a commando are all instant and thus grant greater mobility and damage. The dps is more than enough to pop that bubble instantly. So the sage survives the initial encounter Your arguement would be what about the 3 sec channel of telekinetic throw and procs. Glad you mentioned it. Telethrow (4000 mitigatable) (chance for proc) 3 secs hmm I wonder what is possible option 1 mortar valley (The sage cannot attack and move at the same time if they try to move in the meantime you can pelt them with hammershot- slow but effective). option 2 Plasma grenade-(1300-1700 mitigatable) (2000 elemental) 1.5 sec cast time. Charge bolt- (1500-1700 mitigatable) 1.5 sec cast time There are other options like relying on full auto with a proc but w.e. Now guess who took more damage (unless the chance of a proc) but any sage around this point is ready to run. Stun them. they break, and you hammer, sticky and incen and high impact. GG sage. (The sage could start with some stun or mezz but the base outcome is the same) Sages lack raw dps, mobility while attack that people believe. If you get beat by a sage 1v1 it is likely that you were outplayed. Mind you all classes can perform this on a 1v1 encounter with sages. However only a sage if they survive can go to the next person and have enough to continously attack.

Utility is the price your class paid for a longer pushback, ability to attack while moving and much higher dps. Btw you missed a second individual throwback that can be specced.