Avicii
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No buff either. Had a CM Buff active. Opened a ticket but at the rate 5.0 has been going I suppose me might just all consider this a lost cause, they certainly havent inspire faith in vet players.
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If I missed this please point me in the right direction.
It has been stated the CXP event will end with 5.2 will this go back to the prior rate?
So there is still no catch up mechanic for new/returning players or gearing alts? With the new gear item level in PvP the gear gap will grow, something in 3.3 BW specifically addressed closing the gear gap in PvP making it easier to gear. Will bolster be increased?
This huge gearing mess is still a complete 180 from this time last year and the DvL event with no changes to catch up mechanics new/returning players and alts will never be played as the tiers/gear increases the gear gap grows. If the CXP gain rate reverts to the prior rate.
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I have recently leveled a sentinel, and took me around a month to obtain a full set between GC and UC... I am talking 230 here.. Literally 100 GC levels. And no, I do not play 5-6 hours a day. More like 7-8 hours weekly, which is a lot to begin with.
At every single point in the game's history, prior to 5.0, that was less than a week exercise if not instant upon reaching max level. This is my biggest gripe with the GC system, cuz set bonuses are too strong to not have in PvP when the opposition does.
I think tier 2 is too expensive as well, but much less of an issue compared ti T1. T3 is priced right, but if we are adding T4 something has to change.
Agree with all of this.
Now a returning or new player comes back and look at the massive grind they have to catch up even start to close the gear gap if they are PvPers. They essentially have to feed the players who are geared kills for weeks in PvP to get their crappy entry level set bonus gear. This is the exact *********** problem BW previously addressed and fixed. It makes no logical sense why they have gone backwards in 5.0 with gear gaps in PvP, RNG bags for gear ect. It's mind boggling.
This is such a drastic change from the alt friendly, PvP player friendly game I left last year at this time its hard to fathom how we got here. (Note I have left many times to play other games like W* or BDO but I have always kept my sub active to help support the game)
I recently started playing Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes. because why not, it has to be funner then grinding chapter 1 to get green gear in crates or pets. Seeing EAs business model in that game and how they toss pack options at you for $10, $20, $50, $100 and how people buy them and appear to love it, despite the RNG in some of the crap ones - of course almost all of them are horrible value.
Point being I feel like they wanted to try to incorporate what was working in that game and generating them massive profits without realizing doing a complete 180 in this game was going to piss off the player base.
In GoH people grind for weeks or months to get the heroes they want. As I sit here typing this I can see how they would think just making a massive non stop grind for gear for all of 5.0 would work, they collate the heroes to gear, add some CC options to speed up the boost and players in SWTOR will grind happily away just like in GoH. F2P mobile game logic applied to an MMO.
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This is reassuring on the face of it. But, based on past experience, I'll hold my hopes in check until I see it on production servers.
Exactly this... they have stated before they understand the pain and dislike, yet they are slow as a snail to address it and they dont really address the problems. Like those Alts they encourage all players to create and enjoy. This game went did a 180 from the most alt friendly game to one of the most unfriendly alt games for "end game".
Catch up mechanics need to be addressed for new players and returning players.
What about PvP bolster with additional gear being added? I had a thought that 250 is where they intend bolster to end for 5.0 with additional gear levels being added they just accidentally put it there to start with.
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ROFL... this entire debacle.. Just so you know they hear us and they are listening, clearly.
They care about PvPers, who they have essentially sharted on with this entire gearing system. As well as all their players they encouraged to roll Alts. It is clear they give no ****s. Unsubbing is the only thing they actually hear.
They should have left PvP gear in the game, removing that was a colossal mistake which is only going to be more evident when they increase the gear tiers in the coming months.
Still no catch up mechanic for new players or returning players who will be so far behind they might as well not start the grind, once T4 and 5 drop it will be only worse. The gear gap in PvP between the haves and the have nots will continue to grow, as will player frustrations and queue times.
But OH its so exciting, the thrill of the hunt and all. I got a set piece and felt no excitement just less disappointment then the prior 40 crates of nothing useful in T1. Then went back to grinding chapter 1 for excitement trying to catch get entry level gear! Then I stopped playing for a week due to thrill of the hunt and all around joy GC and RNG has inspired.
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Good question! In short, when the event ends in 5.2 we are going to also readjust the CXP rates at the same time. The intent is to buff CXP above what it was prior to the event. How high we buff it remains to be seen, but our intent is definitely that you get a crate faster than you did before 5.1.1. Once we get closer to 5.2 I should have more details on what CXP gains will look like.
-eric
Just in time for that 5.2 new gear tiers...
Well despite raising the crate drop rate by increasing the CXP leveling speed it is still all junk. I took a character with no old set bonus as I really didnt play much in 4.0, and I have been tracking every crate opened. 38 in I've disintegrate pretty much everything. That is neither exciting, thrilling or fun.
Crates with: Unique Rakata Grenade, MK-1 Adept Device, Pyroclastic Subberoth. Wow that is thrilling!!! This is the problem essentially all of the T1 gear is useless minus the set bonus making it such a crappy experience doesnt encourage people to keep playing.
Maybe BW doesnt really see how crappy the contents are in the crates. What I've considered a win is if I get a disintegrate value over 500.
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Sadly, yet again, non-subscribers are ignored. This will swim up to bite you in the butt some day.
I am curious, what do you think non subs want? And what do they deserve?
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There are many problems:
- The new system does not reward you first tier, even major amount of time spent. In PvP in particular that is a killer.
- The system is becoming way too convoluted between GC buffs, UC and tokens.
- Problem with the boxes is not only how often you get them, but they drop junk.
- BW is moving at the speed of a snail, even with the player backlash. They are gambling on that people will not drop out.
- The system is still extremely alt unfriendly.
- The 250% CXP buff is no more than a gimmick, as they are raising the GC and introducing more tiers in 5.2.
So far the changes does not address any of the above. They are no more than smoke in mirrors.
It seems the future of SWTOR is grind old content for eternity for a "chance" to obtain loot. In addition, this GC buill**** is masking the real issues: lack of content and lack of class balance, which now are not even on the radar. So, overall the devs think they are succeeding.
Unless there is a major drop in subs, nothing will change.
Agree with all of your comments.
*This might be a little tinfoil hat*
What is coming is they are going to increase CXP Level to 500 or 600 and put in 2 or 3 more tiers of gear with the new raid boss. Most likely when the 1st boss drops with story and vet mod there will be 2 tiers when NIM mode drops with boss 2 for boss 1 then we get 1 more tier.
After reflecting on this for a day, I realize this has all been planned by BW. These changes are not hard to make they are dragging them out according to their pre 5.0 plan, that plan doesnt include adjusting the crates crap dropped or helping Alts gear.
They are not making changes on our feedback, clearly since most of it is ignored maybe the tokens were put in early then planned to try to stop the sub bleeding, but this CXP speed up is an attempt to get players closer to the current cap before they increase the next one.
Eric is just out here offering lip service to try to quell the anger. They put an NDA on testing the OPs boss and daily my guess is due to keep it quit till they drop the bomb.
Nothing else makes sense. There are only a couple explanations for this cluster we are in, 1 they planned it all along 2 they are clueless. Seems more likely the later true. Thoughts?
- The new system does not reward you first tier, even major amount of time spent. In PvP in particular that is a killer.
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The Hero Engine has nothing to do with why there isn't a Mac client.
Typically the mac gaming market is signicantly smaller then Windows at the the time SWTOR was developed I believe Blizzards said 4% of their players used a Mac.
That's a huge disparity and while it has surely increased it is just not worth the Devs time to create a Mac client when they have Boot camp and other ways to run the game currently.
You have to consider what do they really gain by deving a Mac client at this point in SWTORs life cycle?
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This should have been better done. The largest cry I saw for was a reduction in the pain that is RNG. Most wanted that way before any change to the speed of cxp gain. I really thought it was a clear message. It was both sides even those who might have been seen as white knights seemed to agree that reduction in RNG would really be the big help and increasing the speed of cxp without that was a bad idea......
I am shocked and unhappy they didn't understand that or accept that.
Concur if these changes are all that's being done why does it take so long? They clearly are not listening to the community and have no intention of doing anything close to what's been asked despite the please give us your feedback, we hear you. No clearly they don't.
They have very simple actions to appease the players yet they are taking the most painful path possible and dragging it out in a way that really won't stop people leaving. This is a cluster **** at its finest.
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Loot tables and drop rates are a database change. We have seen Bioware change loot tables far faster than what you're proposing. We have seen you do it with the cartel market numerous times so it is not that much more substantial.
You keep making minor changes hoping that we will just stop complaining.
This is losing you subs and you cannot admit that it was the wrong move.
Exactly...
Change the variable drop percentage in the DB for set bonus T1 gear at the very least. All they have done is exactly what people said they did not want them to do. Increasing the rate you get crap is not the answer, its still crap. It still solves none of the issues. SMH...
However these changes will probably stop some of the bleeding of subs.
But still no catch up mechanics for new returning players, nothing that addresses the increasing gear gap in PvP for players with NO 208 set bonus. Running into to a player that has 242/240 gear with 15k+ more HPs along with all other stats and set bonus is a completely rewarding experience in ranked, for the player and their teammates.
Sigh... of recognition they will not make any meaningful changes so that the end game is fun for all players.
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I've recently played ESO which is a fun game, agree the animations are wonky and take a bit of getting used to. How ever end game pvp is so proc set heavy there was very little skill required to win. King Richard made a video which shows how cheese it all is. It's something that angered a lot of pvpers and drove people away. It's a lot like swtor in some ways people wondering how it even made it into the game. The Devs said they heard the players but I bailed in Nov I know they were going to make changes but last I checked it wasn't enough to remove the cheese from end game pvp.
That said BWB is a lot of fun when leveling as long as you stay away from the Vet twinks who spend a lot of funds to craft the best gear to crush levelers. Get into a group and roam around and defend and take keeps its a ton of fun.
FF14 the only reason I never tried it is the lack of pvp support after launch. Might have improved some.
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Exactly this. They were told months and months before GC ever went live that it was a bad idea. Kriff, from the day it was announced that all 5.0 gearing would be based on a completely RNG loot crate system, people were telling them "This is a bad idea, I don't want it and I will unsub". People in the closed beta told them the same thing. EAWare didn't listen and dropped it anyways. Then they acted surprised when people hated it... just like they had been repeatedly told they would.
Now they're facing a real crisis here, and yet they're still dragging their feet like they have another 5 years to make GC work somehow. They really, really don't. Not just because more people will leave as a result of said foot-dragging,.
This sums it up. They had an easy win that would've had soaring approval if they had actually listened to the players and fixed the BS system in 5.1, then in the live stream dropped the OPs announcement.
Instead they have just pushed players further over the edge and caused more angst among players.
Now Eric is out here offering lip service to distract players and make them think they actually truly care about our feedback when it is evident by their actions they do not. Toss in that they have made no fixes this week its clear they are dragging this out.
No one should have any faith in that they actually listen to players or have any intention of actually giving the players the fixes they've asked for. They will just increase CXP gain, "help alts" in their mind, and double the 3% useful gear drop rate to 6% and say "see we heard you". Still screwing anyone that doesnt have a prior set bonus and millions of credits to be behind in a gear gap that grows larger by the day.
Seriously how can anyone have any faith in BW to actually remedy this mess at this point? At the rate they are actually doing anything it will be July before this system is tolerable. I'd love to eat crow on this but its hard to believe they actually get it.
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This cannot be stressed enough because it is clear from ever post Eric makes to comments on the Live Streams they dont get. They clearly have nothing but non competitive casual players on their staff or they just dont really play the game, otherwise this point wouldnt need to be drilled into their head.
No matter how many crates they give us as long as they almost always return crap it is unrewarding and not fun. With no catch up mechanic and no way to get your entry gear and set bonus without hundreds of hours of grinding, and it is just to get hopefully start to close the gap, players will continue to unsub.
Waiting till next Tuesday to up CXP gain will not do anything to stem the loses, without addressing crap dropping crates.
And if you are a new player or coming back to the game, might as well just hold off till summer, you will always be behind. My friend, just came back, doesnt have a 208 set bonus or 30 million credits, he left when the wealthy title was impressive. He has no options to catch up so he can PvP at close to a competitive level. I was so excited for him to return and then this **** storm has continued and now he's out.
Eric please thank the BW staff for me, nothing better then friends returning and then being driven away by completely unreasonable and undefendable gearing changes.
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This isnt something anyone should spend time on, the way 5.0/5.1 are going even gold sellers will be leaving game.
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Our goal at launch was 60 minutes per crate. Right now we are seeing times both below and above that goal with an average time per crate being little higher than our target, but not much. It is one of the data points we looked at to plan for our new target. Which if you are math savvy, our new goal is you will get crates twice as fast as before (or more).
For reference, people doing aggressive CXP farming are already doing so at a rate quite a bit faster than every 60 minutes. Our new targets are that someone will get a crate every 30 minutes, without a boost.
-eric
Eric, among many other issues with GC the one over whelming theme that needs to be relayed, it doesn't matter if we get crates faster as long as they are still unrewarding and you can go 40 levels and not receive anything useful.
This needs to be addressed it is causing massive frustration, it's not fun or rewarding.
New players trying to get their entry gear 230 with a set bonus are not getting it after 100 hours of grinding, no matter how fast crates are awarded if this doesn't change the response will be exactly the same.
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so now PvP provides real rewards apart from CXP which is fine.
But : high ranked PvP guilds started to farm unranked PvP with premade groups for the unassembled components. As a result the "normal" and casual players give up and only try to gain 5 reward for the CXP, then stand still and wait until it is over.
In 4X4 people leave immediatly because they are defeated without any CXP.
--> unranked PvP has lost any challenge, just a farm fest for the big PvP guilds who should play ranked.
TBH it was obvious this would occur. They made sure loses ensure you gear slower, that casuals and new players will be at a gear disadvantage, not to mention skill in some cases, with no easy path to gain entry level gear and set bonuses. The more pvp focused are going to group up, so that they win and get more components, further increasing the advantage that they have. Now we'll see raiders group queuing as they get gear from OPs so they also get components and they will have an advantage, which is why games have PvP gear. Double guns for BW and infinite wisdom.
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The goal of 5.1 was to give a method for people to supplement Galactic Command so that aside from Command Crates, they could work towards a specific piece of gear. We did that through introducing Unassembled Pieces and Unassembled Tokens. We also added the start of some help for Legacies with Command Tokens as a Legacy Currency and the Legacy Perks.
5.1 was just the start of the changes though, and my post above was to let you know when to expect more specifics!
-eric
What is taking so long? How was there no plan in place to address this mess? Surely there was anticipation that this was going to be received in this manner? And there is no way they didnt know people would not be able to gear Alts, Alts that they encourage players to create and play with DvL.
There should be fixes going in this week.
How about new and Returning players, casuals and alts, that didnt get set bonus in 4.0 are still behind by with the gear gap and the percentage for the set bonus in PvP. So not only are they at a disadvantage they also have to deal with the unrewarding RNG, none of it is fun. Why would they keep queuing or subbing.
As Snave has pointed out repeatedly, why is the 230 gear with the set bonus not super easy to get? The gear is literally the entry point like Recruit gear, which mind you was mailed to players at one point. Players shouldnt have to grind for a hundred hours and NOT receive their set bonus on entry level gear. This needs to be addressed now not in a few weeks or 2 months.
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In complete seriousness, I'm curious if you could shed some light on the thinking behind your (well, the studio's) insistence on requiring this sort of gearing system.
Because as I see it, there isn't a way to make it both fair and fun. I believe it can get "better", sure. And in fairness, from a PvE standpoint 5.1 > 5.0. But from a PvP standpoint, it is the opposite. Yet if you jack up the PvP side, eventually it's going to overtake PvE in terms of efficiency. And you'll always have the argument that one "can" PvP and contribute nothing, lose 100% of the time, burden their team - yet (eventually) be geared.
I do not understand why you believe this is a better paradigm than having PvP gear be trivial to obtain quickly - making PvP more fair; and having PvE gear be obtainable based on PvE success.
We've done DvL and have dozens of characters. Why do you not want us to be able to play them all effectively, quickly, in the content we "want" to play? For many of us, the content we "want" to play requires this gear. I have 7 or 8 characters on a server I have not even logged into since 5.0 dropped. I see no possible scenario where it makes sense to even try to play them.
I worry, greatly, that you and Ben continue to use words like "watch", "tweak" and "tune". I believe for this game to truly be even in the same universe as "alt-friendly" you need to be using words like "massively boost" or "massively increase" because as it stands now, it's demoralizing to look at my character select screen. You're about two months in and the changes I've seen - short of the initial mega-nerf to elites/champs (which I assume you factored into the original tuning) - have been minuscule at best.
I'm sorry Eric, but the pace at which you guys are addressing - no, fixing - current CXP gains is inexplicable to me. And I can't help but think that you guys honestly just don't know how to fix it. I wouldn't. Because however you do fix it something will be "best" and that's going to compel players to fixate on that activity. And that's not fun.
I guess what I'm saying is I understand the motivations - at least some of them - to open gear to all. But you didn't factor in that the point of gear is to enable players to play better. Not just to have better gear. We're not "playing". We're gearing. And I don't understand why you seem to fear us "playing". I do not believe this is a healthy approach - especially in the weeks leading up to some long overdue content.
So can you please shed some light onto why you feel we need to have gear throttled, and how you see this as a better experience for the players? Perhaps if we understood your thinking, we could make suggestions you'd actually consider.
From where I sit, I think you guys have done a poor job of being timely in addressing CXP gain concerns. I think you'd have to agree with that. I don't know if you're understating the problem internally or you simply don't know what to do.
But I can say with certainty, that reverting Operations and PvP to 3.0 gearing models would improve the gameplay experience for many players and do far more towards retention than slow, incremental CXP increases. That would leave less for your team to have to sort out from a CXP adjustment standpoint as well.
TL;DR - Being able to gear quickly for PvP and Operations players wasn't a problem - why has it been treated as such by the studio?
You hit everything head on. Their slow snails pace response time does nothing to remedy the problems. They need to take action now and massively increase the gains and allow players the ability to get their T1 gear relatively quickly to be competitive with other players. This includes new players, alts, returning players ect. They had to know this system of gearing sucked, that it was alt unfriendly and that players would hate it yet did it anyway. Now they refuse to take the steps needed to fix the problem in a timely manner. Instead they spend their time changing the AoE target and nerfing bolster hitting the target as well as Stormtroopers,
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The Good:
A storyline on Iokath, choice of companion alert, and a staged release for a new Operations. Not bad. Not bad at all. Now if you can squeeze in an 8v8 wz and give GSF a badly needed maintenance pass I think you'd be well on the way to a sustainable content pipeline. If you can stick to this as an annual cadence I think you'll start to earn back some trust.
Would I prefer a whole new Op to be released? Of course. But I do understand the effort it requires to develop them. Just to pluck a silver lining out of this I'm going to predict that this will be one of the better QA'd Ops due to how it'll be rolled out.
The Fugly:
The concept that gear is an incentive is completely wrong. To paraphrase Dr. Demming: Unfair gear systems are a demotivator. RNG is anything but fair. The grind itself makes me just not want to bother.
Galactic Command as the primary gear path is an unmitigated disaster as was 5.1's change to bolster. Anybody with even a passing familiarity with PvP will tell you that a gear disparity causes significant harm to that playstyle.
Stop trying to shove GC down out throats. It's only going to make us puke it back in your face. Put bolster back to where it was in 5.0 ASAP. That's an easy "win".
Reasonable people want rewards commensurate with effort or skill and certainly not governed by a roll of the dice.
Agree with all of this.
Eric, PvP should be about ability and knowledge not gear.
How do you guys expect new and returning players to compete with skilled geared players who have are T3 through massive grinding or exploiting?
They do not have 208 set bonus or gear, they will always be at a disadvantage with no catch up mechanic. In addition the more geared will win due to this and get more tokens while the newer players and casuals will get less tokens furthering the gap.
How is this fun or rewarding? It is only fun for those that want to win by having better gear and crushing players who dont, which results in them not queuing or subbing.
Why isnt anything being done to address this? Like real action. No one should have to grind for 70 hours in T1 and NOT receive their set bonus to at least help start to get on a competitive level.
Suggestion: Increase CXP experience 50% to increase the leveling, increase drop rates by 50%. Ensure that when a player completes T1 they have a full set of T1 gear, send them a token or something to buy it. This will alleviate a lot of the pain with the bolster change. Do the same thing with T2. Leave T3 and Legendary a grind since it is clear skill based competitive game play is no longer something the Devs are interested in.
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For OPs PvEers I think it helped a significant amount. From a PvPer perspective it was a slap in the face. The UCs are not nearly enough or on par with what is possible from PvE and it is now quicker to gear for PvP by doing OPs. It is a disparity that can't happen.
The changes to bolster is big part of the above. 5.1 was extremely damaging to PvP.
Agree completely, part of it was the way they went about the bolster nerf and the dismissive nature to their response. However if they did what the OP suggested, increasing CXP gain by 70% and increase the drop rate of gear by 50% it would be a massive improvement.
IMO they need to ensure that getting T1 is easy for PvPers everyone needs to have their set bonus by the time they get through T1, there is no excuse this isnt in place. I believe T2 and T3 should follow suit. Legendary can remain an RNG grind, but put PvPers back into a position where gear isnt a deciding factor in any match.
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Been subbed since launch, was in the first wave of early access went to Warrior of the Shadow. Stopped my sub once when they wouldn't let the RP-PvP server I was on which was West Coast transfer to a another WC server just to east. Resubbed once they fix it.
I've stayed subbed when playing other MMOs because I wanted to support the game. I've spent too much money on the Cartel Market since F2P launched. Although this past year I've spent nothing on CC.
I unsubbed when they announced 5.1 because it was clear it wasn't nearly enough, then the bolster nerf and the Devs dismissive response to it sealed the deal. I have a month or 2 of time left I added the Amazon expac time card because it's a better deal. If I have to grind I'll go play Revelation Online at least it feels rewarding there.
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Who cares if there is a CXP Bonus, all it does is get you more crates. The RNG from the crates is the real issue. You used to have a 1/8 chance at worst case scenario for winning a loot drop you were after. Now you have a 1/1000+ chance of getting the loot drop you need from a crate. That is an incredible ratio hike that should never have been allowed!
Exactly they are ***** footing around, 5.1 should've taken the appropriate steps to resolve the issue instead a bandaid for a wound that needs stitches. They choose to not fix it and doubled down on their mistake by nerfing bolster pissing off more PvPers with their dismissive response causing long time players, who love the game and have stuck it out through thick and thin, to unsub.
Take the steps to fix the problem right now like: increase CXP massively, increase drop rates ensure by the time players hit T2 they have their full set bonus and T1 gear. Same with T2 and T3, leave legendary for a huge grind.
It's not that hard to resolve, no more feedback needed, no more streams, like Nike just do it.
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Anyone that questions why the bolster change is so bad, I recommend looking at the response from Snave in this thread.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=912317
Sums everything up nicely.
Regs have gone to crap
in PvP
Posted
There is little doubt, some simple match making is needed, but will never happen.
Premades should be pitted versus premades not grouped together the fact that wasnt coded into queuing to start with was poor planning. Very few would argue against that other then a few outlier cases and those that dont play for any challenge they just want to pugstomp, which there are more of the latter then they will ever admit on the forums or to themselves.
This all reminds me of Twinks back in the day in WoW. There were a lot that just liked crushing people that stood no chance, yet when they make it Twink vs Twink a lot bailed because they truly werent after competition. The ones that loved competition grouped together to run premade vs premade.
Really though there is nothing better then close games, some of my best memories in PvP across MMOs are with friends in nail biting games. Nothing beats that thrill.
Its too bad most people dont seem to be after that feeling anymore and the Devs have done nothing to help foster those games.
On a side note, I really wish they went through with what they said at the Guild Summit to add solo queue 8v8 ranked where close games were more likely to occur.