So, after all that, you still do not have the gear needed to do NiM content that you probably could have done with the gear you already had in November. RNG is bad, but a RNG grind with no reward at the end, no new content and not even a full set of gear, is just poor design. There is no excuse for it, and I don't want to hear anything about luck. By basing the whole thing of RNG, they designed it so players would get this far and not have all the gear, it is the way they want it to work. This is exactly what RNG gearing is supposed to do. I'd like to thank the OP and players who push the limits of the system like him, they give us the proof of what the system is in reality and given some people's refusal to accept what RNG gearing actually means, including the devs, we need that.

Ironically, everquest is why I never do operations here. Try a few 70+ man raids, or the multi 70+ groups needed to kill some stuff, like the 200 or so poor souls who went after Kerafyrm the Sleeper only to have SOE despawn him at 20% health because they thought the group were exploiting (I'd moved on to swg by that point, no raiding there either), and raiding becomes old hat quickly. I like playing casually, I don;t need the best gear, I don't even want the best gear, but endlessly opening crates, well 25 of them, by doing 5 year old content, and getting jawa junk and rep tokens for my trouble. That is just insulting.

Yes, its a shame. Don't get me wrong, I really loved the KOTET story as it played out, it was a great experience. But out of 14 toons, I have done it twice now, and that is it. I don't really want to do it again, in fact, only 5 of my toons have done kotfe, simply because I don't want the others to lose their important companions, and after the fifth pay through that I did just for DvL, I have kind of had my fill of that story too. Asylum was really cool the first couple of times I played that chapter, but by the fifth I was sick of going backwards and forwards to the ship. I won't be doing it again.

given the current direction, I expect the 8 man content to be an arena, where everyone starts on the edge, and have to run to the middle and grab a box. There are 8 boxes, and each player opens theirs and a random thing happens. Some people get a gear piece, some people get some jawa scrap, some get a weapon for an entirely different class, and some get some reputation tokens for something they maxed out last year. Then the winning players get to laugh at those that lost out in chat for a few minutes then they all leave. The design team think this is as exciting as it gets, so it stands to reason it will be the most popular content ever made for the game.

I'm at 26 GC levels across two toons with nothing of note to show for it. I've given up. I'm just leveling up all my alts to 70 while I run crafting missions to make them all some 228 purple gear, GC is simply too random for someone who is not grinding through a lot of levels, it produces nothing of note because the chance of something useful on each roll is so small. Once everyone is at 70 I can't see much reason to stay subbed. No new content (I liked the story of the latest thing, but do it twice and the novelty has worn off) and no way to acquire gear for all my toons in any meaningful way. Good Job, Bioware Austin!

Introducing a grind if there is new content to play is not so bad, people complete the grind while enjoying new content and tend not to really notice. Its how most MMOs work. Introducing a big, fat grind and then expecting players to do it using 5 year old content? It was heading for disaster from day one. Had we been given daily areas on the new planets, a flashpoint on each one and some operation, maybe to beat the artifical intelligence behind that planet scorpio is on, things would not seem as bad as they do. As a solo player who not only doesn't like PvP so much (low level was fun during DvL, but i'm not good enough at it at high level and people take it very seriously) and I don't want to disrupt PvPers fun by hanging around in matches just for cxp, the quickest route to cxp I have found for myself is doing heroics with the bonus for completing 5 you get through the GC interface. I first did Dromund Kaas heroics the day after launch (a group of four else we got massacred, fun times), expecting a paying customer to grind 300 levels of cxp on that content is an insult, no matter how many times they try and dress it up, and thats before we get to the 26 command boxes I have opened without finding anything useful. The proposals change nothing for me, and still offer no way to gear my alts (that I was just being encouraged to have last week) effectively.

Nothing to do with 'entitled'. Remember, this is not just a new system, its a new, grindy system built onto 5 year old content. You think the outcry would be this bad if there was a new operation, a new flashpoint and daily area for each new planet we have seen in the last two stories? Of course not. When, for solo players who do not want to disrupt PvP players by standing around in matches for the easy CXP, one of the quickest ways of getting that CXP is doing heroics on Dromund Kaas, a place I first visited on launch day, with quests I first completed on the day after launch day, that is where the problem is. You give people something new to work through, the grind is not really obvious, put it on 5 year old content, and you get boredom. It was obvious from the moment they announced it. And lets be honest, progression raiders got it worse. They need 300 ranks of this nonsense just to have the gear to do the content they were doing last month.Its asinine, and an insult to paying customers it made it to the live servers to be honest.

So, let me summarize what you propose. You are adding extra rewards to the fastest method of leveling galactic command (PvP). You are adding extra rewards to last bosses on operations, ensuring that last boss lockout is all that matters now and new players are going to struggle getting into operations. You have done nothing for solo players, who still have to rely on a year of grinding per toon plus insane random luck if they get anything at all. Also, again, next expansion. What do you do? If you add the next level of gear to the end of GC, so 301-400 level, you just put on level gear further away from any casual player and the gear disparity for new players will be insurmountable. If you reset all galactic command levels, you remove any benefit of being a long term player and erase everything people have done. Its a lose lose situation. The system you have designed simply does not work.

Yup, I got one. That tells me the fallout from this is pretty serious, they must be hemorrhaging subs at the moment.

I have another concern about this system that I'd like to see clarified. What happens when you up levels to 75 at the next expansion? You add more GC levels that work the same? Suddenly, a new 70 has to do 400 levels or whatever to get gear to do end game stuff, be it PvP or group content, because the stuff they get along the way to 400 will be largely obsolete. Or you reset everyone and start 0 to 300 again. And all those hours are wiped out. Gear being made obsolete is part of the game, but 300 hundred hours + of playtime to get gear that is then made obsolete? And the answer is to start again grinding 5 year old content? Have you even thought of how to build on this system at all?

I've opened 24 levels of galactic command boxes across two toons without getting anything useful. The majority I have got is orange empty shells. I get those for doing heroics anyway with the odessen boxes. I have recieved a dozen reputation tokens, mostly for things I've completed, and a few for first fleet, which means nothing to me at all. But that is the thing with RNG based loot pulled from such a broad loot table. Your experience will be very different. And that is precisely why it is a design that does not belong in an MMO. I like the interface, its well done, but basing it entirely off RNG for a massive loot table is just poor design, and so at odds with the direction the game was going - many alts - right up to the very day of the patch, that its hard to believe it got to live, it is such a poor choice.

Its simple. When I ding a level, I should get something. The randomness should be between something useful and something special. The dichotomy between your game theory and the reality for me as a player is you think 'something' simply means 'anything'. Orange shells are not something. Greens and blues that are no better than my current 208/216 gear are not something. Reputation tokens for things I maxed out 2 years ago are not something. Start from there. then move on to the 'idea' to transition from a DvL content that REQUIRED me to roll lots of alts, to something that will take all my time to do on a single toon. You have both active on the same day. One in the morning, the other in the afternoon (for us in the UK). Read that paragraph back, and then work out the problem. It should never have got this far.

Its the same on Red Eclipse. Dark tier 1 sometimes, but light always wins. Of course, this was predictable to anyone who has ever played an MMO ever. Everyone joins the winning side. Apparently this is news to the devs here though.

Just to add something to the current 'whats better gear' conversation. If this thing is supposed to be casual friendly, which is the premise of the original argument, now suggesting that the knowing to rip blue enhancements out of orange gear because it gives a bit of a boost is kind of negating it. Many casuals in this game do not even get the concept of using interrupts, any pug group can tell you that, they are not going to get the nuances of gear. They will be looking at what they get, looking at the comparison with what they have, all green numbers means its better, red means it isn't. The OP seems to be now arguing to use this you need to know at least some detailed gearing info, after arguing its great because its newbie and casual friendly. The two are not compatible for a big chunk of the player base. But what do I know, I've only been playing these games since Everquest launched, I didnt have reliable internet during the meridian 59 days.

I'm on Red Eclipse, and I've been there since day one launch. I did play with some friends from other games to begin with, but they all left at the first exodus 6 months in. I've been going it alone ever since. I have never been in an operation in 5 years of the game, but thats OK too, I kind of had my fill of raiding in everquest and while this game is not 50+ people and everything that goes with it, I prefer the casual play these days. I have played through every class story on both sides, I loved the agent story the most, but find in the game since KOTFE, ranged, static classes like my marksman really do not fir well with the design. I much prefer my juggernaut these days, the story seems designed for that class. I did a bit of PvP once for 4X and Pierce, and got a DvL toon to valor 5 for that event too. I did not really care for max level PvP, it was all a bit too serious, but during DvL I found the PvP between lower levels, when we were all between 15 and 30 or so much more fun. I even managed a few kills in that one. At the moment I'm mainly levelling up crafters and gathering the materials to craft all my alts 228 purple gear. I have a few GC levels, but I am hopeless with random loot, its better to just make my own than rely on bad luck.

Indeed. I think my toon must have ran out of deodorant or something, Vette is determined to stay far upwind of me at all times.

The Posts from Starsfn, Smuglebunny and OnoRonin above highlight just why the system as implemented is unworkable better than any essay or frustrated player ever will. At 23 levels across a couple of toons and nothing useful at all. Orange shells and some jawa junk? Jawa Junk in a system designed to gear me up, really? Not to mention of course rep tokens for things I maxed out two years ago, very useful stuff there. I've given up. I'm crafting 228 purples for my toons, and that will be it. For the fist time since launch, I am struggling to justify a sub really. If I play the game as intended, Its all about the one toon at the expense of all my alts. For the last 6 months, playing the game as intended has been all about alts not my one main toon, Life's too short to deal with dev schizophrenia as well as the daily crap I already have to face. Gear, grinding, arguments about what is the best way to do it, none of that matters really, the game just is not fun when the rewards are so random, and I play games for fun. That should be what matters, to us and the devs. they seem to have forgotten that part. RNG should always be a decider between something useful and something special, never between something and nothing, because a fair proportion will always get nothing. And they will eventually leave.

Great question. The entire system is unsuited to further progression being built onto it.

I think it depends on the kind of thing you like doing. I mainly solo PvE., just me and a comp, and vengeance Jugg is the most fun for that. Its class that just feels right, it really is a 'take on any odds and win' toon that the story tries to portray. I would say 'hero', but thats the wrong word for a dark side jugg. For me, although I loved the class story the most, Marksman Sniper is the least fun, and that is because the entire story arc of the last two expansions is built around mobile force users, and the need to be stationary too much to be effective just makes gameplay feel disjointed in this newer content.

I played through everquest, I played through the launch of star wars galaxies and later the infamous speeder parking lot debacle, and I was on the test server for the NGE. I played through endless queues at WoW launch and I even beta tested tabula Rasa. And yet, I am still suprised just how bad the work on this expansion has been

I've been here longer than every current bioware employee. I have never really complained before, but the idea that an RNG that varies from nothing at all to BIS is utterly ridiculous. Not only that, it is exactly what cost half the subs 6 months after launch. I watched everyone I game with disappear once, and I stuck around because I play very casually and having the very best gear does not bother me. However, this system is not 'exciting', it is annoying, aggravating, and most importantly, not fun. I have managed 20 GC levels, I have yet to receive anything at all that I can use. Nothing. Not one companion gift. No Purples. Just greens and blues with wrong stats and not as good as the 208/216 purples I already have. And lots and lots of orange shells. They go well with the lots and lots of orange shells I got for doing the odessen box grind. Just so we are clear, that is sarcasm. Orange shells are also annoying when you are expecting something to improve your toon. The other reason it is bad, and by bad I mean bad design, is it launched on the very day your last 'content' ended. That content required multiple alts. Now you want an insane grind to gear one toon, and ignore the alts. Pick a direction, stick to it. Anything else is bad design. This is bad design. Ding a level, get a reward. That is the basics. If you don't understand why email Raph Koster, he made mistakes too, but he understands what makes an MMO work. Dinging a level and getting nothing ( and no, stuff you just destroy or sell because its useless is not 'something') and there is no incentive to keep going. Do it often enough and it becomes a disincentive to play. That is where I am now. I am also lucky, all my toons are in 208/216 purples, I can do most content like that. New players? New players are screwed when they get to 70, there is no real way to plan gear. If they want to do ranked PvP or raids, how are they supposed to reliably (important word) gear for it? They cannot and they will leave. In short, can we have someone who understands MMOs on the design team please.

I think the biggest issue people are having is that up until this expansion, you could over gear (it works even with the level changes) and blow through stuff without even noticing boss mechanics. That seems to have changed since they put the Arena in. They are using the mechanics from some of the arena opponents in bosses in the new expansion, and they have toughened them enough that you can't really ignore them like we used to. Galactic Command also means no one, unless you are one lucky SOB, is over geared for this stuff when you are doing it any more.

Yup. I play mostly solo, all the things I do I can manage with the gear I have, and I'm collecting the mats to make myself purple 228 stuff across all my toons so I at least get some progression out of the game. But if I was into PvP or raiding where gear is more important, I would be a lot more angry about it all, because it would gate enjoyment of the game for those people. As it is, I can't really see the point in GC at all for me, and this is the first time I have really complained about the game since the start. I've been here since the forums launched (check my forum ID number), never mind the game.

20 boxes opened. I have yet to receive anything I can use. My toons are in a mix of vendor purple 208s and 216s, and all I have got is greens with the wrong stats (that are worse than what I have anyway), rep tokens for stuff I maxed out two expansions ago and a ton of orange shells. Like the other boxes from the kotfe didn't give me enough of those already. I haven't even got a companion gift yet.

It is NOT an equal playing field. That is the entire problem with having a RNG choice that ranges from 'nothing useful' to 'vital for end game content' Two people can level Galactic Command 1 - 50, and end up with entirely different rewards. One could have a full set of 230's with bonus. One could have an inventory of companion gifts, greens with stats worse then they already had and some reputation tokens for maxed out factions. (I am currently at 20 command levels across a couple of toons, I have yet to receive anything I can use, and my toons are currently in a mix of 208 and 216 vendor purples) When some content requires the gear, having RNG at that level is plain wrong.And very, very far from 'a level playing field'. RNG is fine if it decides between something useful and something special, RNG is just plane daft if it decides between something and nothing in end game content.