It's needed (not the nerf, the buff) Letting Ravage run it's full course was a dps loss. Your dps actually would increase if you cut it off after the first two strikes.

bolded part, leap already did without the stun, because it had a built in interrupt. You are ignoring other problems such as leap now filling the resolve which means he's able to be CC'd less. This would allow that dps to possibly kill you, that healer get off that heal, that player to knock you off.

I don't get how people are ok with this costing so much. Other threat drops and defensive cooldowns cost much much less resource relative to the class and they get the full effect without further draining of their resource pool. It costs 14 force (12 with a talent) that is a crap load. Yes rampage now procs to give rage, but you have to have 4/5 rage to even have a chance of activating rampage. It is a severe loss in dps when other classes don't have to give up near as much. That sorc that just bubbled, he can still deeps his face off. That assassin that just vanished, he can immediately attack again. That marauder that now takes 99% less damage, yep he can deeps his face off. That jugg/guardian that just blew his enraged/focused defense, yeah he gets to blow another cooldown or spam his builder just to fuel the thing. Further most people that I see support this say it's good because of synergy with endure pain/enure and rakata health packs. Yeah... blowing 1-2 additional cooldowns just to make another one good is really good design...

He's citing a class in tank spec doing abnormally large numbers while the same is not true for our tank spec. Pay attention to the arguments.

Haven't looked at marauders/sentinels have you? They have exactly that. along with saber ward, self heals, a 99% damage reduction, a vanish that also reduces damage, a huge accuracy debuff. I'm sorry heavy armor make little difference to warrant Juggs/Guardians having less cooldowns than marauders.

How about a 30 second long, 1 minute cooldown (which can be reduced with talents), 20% damage reduction that also damages you attackers. How about a beefy shield we can put up every 20 seconds. How about complete immunity for 3 seconds from the major kind of attacks in pvp (force and tech), how about an attack that can heal us. How about this skill without the resource cost. Really I could list tons that would be better. A mitigation talent that continues to take resources for it's duration after having a steep resource cost just to activate is Crap. Whats even more crap is that to get the most out of it and make it semi worth the resource cost you need to pop two other cooldown (enure/endure pain and a medpack). May as well just combine it with enure instead of creating an entirely new button.

It's not designed for that as it doesn't give you fast hp. It gives you no hp and just mitigates incoming damage at the cost of rage. That is how small the heal is

No other cooldown has such a steep cost (More than our entire resource pool and taking damage). It's a cooldown not a stance. it is way too expensive for what it does. Also adds yet another keybind. it would be better if they cut the ongoing cost out and just made the first tick cost 2 rage, then combine it with endure pain.

If you get the maximum out of it it comes out to 14 rage.

You play against crappy sorcs. Nearly all healing hybrid can heal through the damage vengeance does as we don't have enough cc to lock them down.

4 rage to activate lasts 10 seconds heals for 3% health everytime you are hit and takes one rage each time. Cannot occur more than once a second.

*Watches an assassin/scoundrel stealth and just lay into the target with spike/hidden strike and follow up with full damaging moves* Sorry, stealth doesn't drain their energy pool constantly to cut into their dps.

Get rid of the ability. Tie the effect into enure/endure pain. Make it cost no rage to activate with a cooldown of 1 minute. Keep the 3% heal if attacked and only the first heal takes 2 rage all other take none. Make the threat drop tied to a talent (that does more than just modify the skill) in both the focus/rage and vigilance/vengeance trees. This would give us a nice reliable cooldown that doesn't drain us of focus/rage and also doesn't add yet another keybind for us.

I bolded the issue. Tell me another defensive cooldown that requires the user to basically give up on trying to kill a target.

Has a 1 second internal cooldown and drains our focus continually. It's at full duration about 4800 heal for 14 focus which is just bad.

That heal will use more than just excess rage. It will leave you rage starved and cut into your dps. it's up to 14 rage for a rather small heal for the cost.

really doubt it will offset the loss of chilling scream. Already had no issues with rage as vengeance.

like I said, it will cut into dps since you are now blowing enrage to power the defensive buff instead of using it to power your dps. Further jumping into soresu also cuts into your dps. I can't think of a defensive cooldown that has such a huge cost for the benefit.

spec for enraged defense is 4 rage cost, 45 second cooldown. When receiving damage you heal for 3% of your health and spend a rage. Effect cannot occur more than once a second. So with 16000 xp over the full duration you'll heal 4800 hp for 14 rage. It's an ok amount of healing as a reactive heal, but it's going to cut into rage for dps.

It's a moderate decrease in threat on use, then each proc is a small decrease in threat.

takes 4 rage just to activate then a rage a second if you are constantly getting hit. so that is 14 rage over 10 seconds. That is going to mess with your dps even as a vengeance.

It's not a real heal. It will just mitigate some incoming damage at the cost of focus. So in effect it will actually lower our dps while it is running.

Not really a heal, it basically just mitigates some damage by giving you a small heal when you take damage at the cost of focus. It will, in all likelihood be underwhelming.

Won't touch vengeance now. it's just been nerfed. Loss of decimate is a straight dps loss. Nothing added to increase the dps. DoTs still just extra damage and have no other synergy with the tree. Immortal still has massive AoE threat problems. Rage gets everything it needed. New cooldown is nice, I'm just concerned that the rage cast will be too much in the long run. Not only do we have to get hit to heal, we have to spend rage. Passive crash is dumb. It will fill the resolve bar thus be pointless to train. I won't be training it.

Other tanks have those too. One thing to note is that taunts don't create threat, they just force a mob to attack you for their duration.