You really don't make sense. It's not a tradition. It's common sense. If Bioware made this game into something else, you would have an argument. But this game is not something else. This game is the same old hat in a different color, a 1:1 carbon copy of WoW in space and I mean that in the most complimentary way possible. So your argument is nil. It's a traditional MMO, you expect a chat with it? A minimap with it? Talent trees and abilities? Dungeons? PvP? Number based combat system? Then you better expect a combat log. You were obviously never afk in the wilds, just to return and found yourself dead, wondering "What killed me?". You obviously never died in a warzone and wondered DAMN! That was a lot of damage rapidly, what happened? See, I don't want to dictate to you how you play your game. If you don't care about answering the question of *** happened, that's fine. Nobody forces you to. Are you for real? I was the only one playing the game. Obviously. Nobody played my game, that's why it is called single player game. My massively MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game is different in that everyone on my server is playing the game with me, at the same time.

no they are not. I feel silly for even being put in a situation where I have to wish for a proper real time combat log, like it is not an absolutely basic feature in any game of this kind. This is just something you would never expect to be missing from an MMO.....

the problem is people are completely oblivious to the difference between a combat log and a dps meter. I see a lot of support for dps meters here but the truth is - a combat log has a very different primary use. That primary use being telling you *** just happened to your character. Players like to know what happened to their character. Especially when it died and ther eis no way of telling what just happened other than a couple of red numbers popping up above your head.

It's more like Bioware took the chess board and made checkers out of it because apparently their playerbase doesn't know any more sophisticated rules.... two minor things: 1. Combat in MMO's is ALL about the numbers. 2.because people like to know what exactly happened to their character You know MMO's did evolve from completely text based games right? (some of the early graphical MUD's even had combat logs...) You know most combat scenarios in roleplaying games are somewhat based on the good old rolling the dice? You realize every single thing from pushing a random button to the time the gcd takes, the damage and healing your abilities do, their range, your mitigation and defense, the amount of damage you are getting hit for, everything is based in numbers, right? all those numbers are flying around through the client, a combat log is merely a part of the ui making them visible on the interface the player works with. some players like to press colorful buttons and enjoy shiny spell effects. some players like to know what is happening, beyond the shiny graphic effects. it's just preference. If you don't want to use the combat log - disable it. The reason every other MMO has a combat log is because it is a tried-and-true feature. Even Biowares single player games, NWN, Dragon Age, Baldurs Gate, etc pp have a combat log.... WHY? Because a lot of people playing games like this are enjoying the oldschool way of doing the combat - in detail, with math and with numbers. thinking a little bit instead of just rolling over the buttons with your face :-)

I know a lot of people stuck around simply because of all the hype surrounding 1.2 and they are giving the game one last chance with it. The patch does look good and it might be the games saving grace but if there is any more crap along the lines of "Combat logs are coming! Rejoice!" - "Oh no sorry for the confusion, we are going to be the only MMO without a combat log on the market. haha fooled you. here have some crappy oog parser instead" ... well let's just say I hope they get what they got coming then :-)

It's no compromise at all though...Combat logs are just simply not in the game. I never heard of a mmo without a combat log ever before. Well not since Everquest introduced them to the genre and it's safe to assume they were missing due to technical limitations before. parsing information outside of the game is no substitute for a combat log in any way whatsoever.

well, let'S look at it like this: I don't know of ONE single MMO that does not have a fully functional combat log included. Never heard of it, never expected it to see in our modern days. But low and behold, here it is - no combat log at all and no plans whatsoever to include one. To be fair, who expected to see FFA pvp brackets allowing lv 50 players to farm lowbies? If anything, Bioware has proven to take some unconventional approaches. They might be totally sucky, in a completely obvious fashion to many longtime fans of the genre from miles away but couldn't hurt to try it out right? Or could it?

Oh no my friend, you are not done with me. I am done with you!

It's entirely meaningless and useless for replacing the functionality of a real time combat log. which is what I am talking about(and was the content of the quote in my post you responded to) and no amount of target dummy facesmashing and carebearing is going to change that.

see, that's exactly what I meant. Everybody confuses a combat log with a dps parser. Sure, beating up a target dummy might be meaningful to some of the - I want to be diplomatic about it but for lack of a better word let's just go with it - bad players. A combat log is something different entirely though, unlike a parser it is meaningful and important, although it is a prerequisite for dps meters and the like, sure.

Allright, allright. You convinced me. So explain to me please how this oog parser is a meaningful replacement for a combat log. And while you're at it, elaborate on the usefulness of the parser in itself.

It's quite apparent the one without any idea what I am talking about is you.

We are NOT getting a combat log. when people talk about combat logs, and what EVERY other MMO on the market understands by "combat log" is a real time combat log that works similarly to a chat window. when you die you click on the roster and are able to retrace what the **** just happened. that's a combat log.

again - there are no personal combat logs. that was a lie. all you get is a useless parser you can use to check your combat data outside the game. It's entirely meaningless.

nobody is going to quit. The community in this game already blows anyway. Nothing is changing whatsoever. The only guys that might quit are the few remaining hardcore PVE guilds. Good job, alienating the players who will stress and test the new pve content so it can be polished and balanced before the bulk of the playerbase hits it... swtor is the only MMO on the market without a combat log. I mean think about that for a moment. It's a travesty. I am probably just getting desillusioned by what this game really is. I came here expecting a great MMO with a team behind it working hard to make it the best MMO on the market. Instead I got... SWTOR. I kind of feel robbed tbh. Yes the leveling experience was nice enough but I could just play an offline game with an even better storyline and without the grind instead... As far as MMOs go beyond just nice voice-overs and cutscenes... Even WoW starts to look awesome again to me, I haven't played it for almost 2 years after getting burned out from raiding but SWTOR kind of makes me think about buying the expansion, something that was completely out of the question before I played swtor. If that was your intent, Bioware - job well done! You reignited my love for MMO's, even though yours had to fall short for that to happen.

I can tell you right now, this might not be a dealbreaker on its own but you can add it to the list of things that will ultimately make many players cancel their subs or not renew them. Especially the pve crowd who, yes, will want to use them for parsing and dps meters but combat logs are important for many players, especially those who got used to them for more than a decade from other MMOs. I for one was completely trusting Bioware to get it right with the combat logs, I believed them when they said personal logs were coming. And now? They made a fool out of me because what the hell am I going to use an oog parser for? They said "Combat logs are coming" and now they have to say "What is coming is not a combat log at all, guys. Sorry for the confusion earlier. We coded some utter bullcrap together though that has no practical use whatsoever and will supply you with it instead of combat logs like EVERY OTHER MMO IN EXISTENCE TODAY." I feel like I am getting trolled but the fact they are serious with that crap is so much worse than trolling... Honestly, I care less every day about those "immature griefers" Moving on to greener pastures soon, looks like.

NO we are NOT getting them. we don't get a combat log. We get some kind of ridiculous oog parser for whatever personal information we want to look at outside of the game. which is just hilarious and sad at the same time.

i really just want a combat log. All this discussion about dps meters and parsing makes me a sad panda. combat logs belong in an MMO like a minimap and a chat window do. It's quite insane to even launch a MMO without a fully functional combat log but apparently the elitist attitude surrounding oog parsing and third party dps meters etc is standing in the way of supplying players with one of the most basic, yet pivotal tools in game that is ALL about the numbers as far as combat is concerned? (well, since Everquest in '99 at least because I don't think any MMO launched without a combat log after) that's just weak. Apparently Bioware made this game exclusively for the casual / carebear / longtime Bioware (singleplayer) fans, they are COMPLETELY crapping on any players that might just enjoy mmos in general and came here expecting a team devoted to creating the best MMO on the market instead of playing us for a fool. I hope they get their just deserts for it.

What really makes me sad is how every single discussion about combat logs just ends up the same shallow battle between the various degrees of inferiority complexes on these forums - on both sides of the argument. I don't give a **** about your e-peening on the dps meters, wether you are afraid of them because you are a horrible player and know it too or feel the urge to always rub your superior numberz into everybodys face. combat logs and dps meters are NOT THE SAME THING WHATSOEVER. yes combat logs make parsing possible but their PRIMARY USE is important outside of evaluating your groups performance.... but if, apparently, the devs are not aware of that how can you expect the average player to understand it...

the good guilds have already left the game in masses after realizing how broken and uninventive endgame content is. yes, some remain out of sheer boredom presumably but I don't see that going on for long. Let's face the truth: People will deny it but a lot of the serious pve guilds in this game WILL go back to WoW when the panda train arrives - because that is where they came from in the first place. And who can blame them. Swtor launched at just the right time, people were bored in WoW, most of the content became stale and boring and there is nothing really new on the horizon until the expansion hits but you can hate on Blizzard all you want - they do have the greatest talent in the industry working for them and it shows in their game.

It's only hyperbole for people who are not really into MMO's. Believe it or not, there is a reason no MMO ever launched without a combat log, ever since 1999. Yes that's the decade before the last one. And I think that might be the problem with this game: Too few mmo veterans playing this game to call the dev team out on all the ******** they make the players put up with. I guess in the end the game will end up with the community it deserves and vice versa (can it really get worse than it already is? just watch)

Exactly. It's such a small (yet absolutely pivotal and essential) tool, it comes with the basic package of EVERY MMO ever released since Everquest. Even the worst, most bug ridden, half-ready and broken launched games had a fully functional combat log included. That's not the worst part though. The really bad part is Bioware saying "combat logs are coming" and then what is coming is not a combat log at all, not even remotely.

I am majorly disappointed. First they bait us, announcing that a REAL combat log is coming. and then it ends up not being a combat log at all. A combat log lets me see EXACTLY, in real time, what happened and not make me parse the combat data outside of the game (or even inside the game, who the hell cares) We wanted a combat log and instead we got just another bad joke. As if it weren't bad enough to launch an MMO without a combat log in the first place - and actually let the game run live for MONTHS without hotfixing it in - now they add insult to injury with such a fail of epic proportions. right when you thought you could not be disappointed anymore, they find new and improved ways to make you lose all hope. Good job!

Rated pvp doesnt need marks. assist trains work beautifully by themselves. oh by the way - here's the problem with your argument: WoW does not have raid marks on healers heads? That's right. WoW and pretty much most other respectable mmos DO have macro functionality though. A simple target of target macro on your main assist will make sure you target whomever is chosen to be tunneled down regardless. face it, raid marks only help out pug players. and they need the help because pugging in this game is probably more unforgiving and less fun than in any other mmo and the lack of so much functionality like UI customization and macros is not really helping that either.

you are COMPLETELY wrong http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html it's not about "frame lag", it's all about smoothness. And everyone should be able to notice the difference. If not... I don't know, maybe get yourself checked out also read the little text at the bottom, that is why film runs at ~ 24fps and people don't care. Playing a game emulates a "real" life like vision from the standpoint of your character though. Real life application of your eyes is not limited at 60 fps (or even less) Also the OP is lying BADLY. that system is midrange at best, large scale Ilum battles will have his system crawling into the single digits, 20fps at the very very most. stop lying.