I don't see this as a problem tbh, especially with the pace of combat in this game. This is not a shooter, your field of view is already far less restricted than playing from first person view. The only time I ever changed the fov in any mmo I ever played was when tanking in WoW and that was only because I am extraordinarily lazy and add spawns were always happening way outside my vicinity.

especially because it's not true. opposing the idea of a basic combat logs does not make you a bad player. The converse argument on the other hand... ok not going to elaborate.

nope, there are 4 basic classes and 8 total advanced classes in the game. Both factions have access to all advanced classes just with different names. Why would you want to play two sith warriors and repeat the old content again? Play a jugg and a sentinel, enjoy both storylines, don't waste your time. It's far more limited than you realize, no refunds!

people need to stop using the term combat log. you get a trashy log file that you can look at after beating up a target dummy on your ship. if you want a real time combat log to tell you the underlying metrics of the combat your character was involved in just a few seconds ago - not happening.

that's not true. There is no ingame chat window. Which is what I am complaining about for a while now... it's only a log file. Here is the official quote: If you want to see the combat data you need to do it outside the game, you will not be able to see what just did those 50% damage inside the game. That's what I have been trying to explain but people just keep rambling on about dps meters and all that crap

That's just the thing. This complacency is just so wrong.

The bad experiences with parsers must have been really traumatizing for most of the guys here...lol. It's actually a little bit hilarious to read the responses. Most posters reading comprehension is nonexistant as soon as they read words like DPS, combat log, parser, and the like. I never mentioned public logs. A basic combat log telling you information about your character and nobody else in your group... that would be enough. Repeat after me : Your damage, your received damage, passive actions like dodging and shielding, status effects and secondary effects affecting your character and your enemy. That's it. It has zero to do with evaluating the performance of someone in your group. I don't get where all the combat log anxiety is coming from, seriously. exactly. lotros combat log is totally functional and doing exactly what a combat log should. your understanding of the combat log in swtor is wrong though, it is not visible in the game. It might be possible to paste the data into the chat window but it is NOT a combat log like you are used to from lotro. and that's the issue why people keep complaining,I am afraid a lot of people are not aware what "combat log" we are going to get in this game. It's not a real time combat log but a log file. there is little doubt some guilds will require you to post your log files after every encounter. maybe this will even happen for hardmode flashpoints. And since there is no other way to evaluate someones performance other than guesswork, people will be wary to group up with strangers and unjustified kicks and group disbands will happen regardless.

It's not MY way to play. Supplying a combat log is the way every MMO ever since the technology is available has done it. I am not an elitist, I am just a guy who played some other games before and who likes to be able to see exactly the numbers behind what just wen on on the screen. I don't need to rub my super leet dps numbers into anybodys face either. I don't have to. Everybody can freely choose the kind of people he wants to play with. And while I don't do any PvE at the moment I am actually in a guild where I would not even be tempted to troll my guildees with my incredibly leet numberz. This game is barely 3 months old, I don't expect it to be perfect. That's why I am here. That's why I am posting. You post because you 'dont care. I am posting because I do care.

I have been posting in this thread long before I opened up my own. Which survived much longer than I even expected by the way. I wasn't crying for attention either, I am fighting the good fight here, trying to educate players like you who are in dire need of some good ol' l2p. Futile? Maybe. But I got time to kill

it does effect the outcome because I am able to learn from it, I am able to retrace my steps, my enemies steps, I am able to see in cold, hard numbers the effects of the various stats I am acumulating on my gear, I can see if I should stack more accuracy because I am missing attacks in pivotal moments, I can see what type of damage a certain npc's attack is dealing and if he is mitigating an unreasonable amount of a certain damage type etc pp. Not the least, people will be able to do some math to expose buggy abilities or support claims of imbalances in the game by supplying facts instead of "SORCS ARE SOOOO OP!!!!11" there is a reason all other mmos currently on the market and about to be released have a basic combat log implemented. Every single one of them. But that's just me and we can clearly see here what the problem is. People like you don't want to learn, they don't care and while I personally do not need dps meters and the like it's painfully obvious why you guys don't like them. Because your attitude of "I don't care. I just want to press some buttons and enjoy the nice graphics" directly translates to the group content that you might share with a a dozen other people - and ruin their experience by your unwillingness to improve. Again, there is no sensible argument to be made why anyone would possibly oppose the general idea of a personal combat log, if not tied to parsing and calling out people on their performance. And I don't believe disabling combat logs to deny dps meters is choosing the lesser evil.

this thread has made very clear why the future for the game looks so bleak. The problem is not just the devs, it is the community. while usually developers not listening to their customers seems like a bad thing, listening to their customers might actually be worse in this instance. It's probably my own fault for chosing to spend time on a - supposed - MMORPG that was made for people who don't really like the genre but rather just wanted another Bioware/Star Wars game.

I am not whining and it is certainly not about what I want. It is about convention. You expect certain things from a MMORPG, if only because EVERY other game of this kind supports at least a basic real time combat log. a combat log in its basic idea is a tool to tell you what your character did and what the enemy did to your character. Kicking people from groups will still happen, only without justification because nobody knows what really is going on and it's all based on perception and voodoo.

the majority does not even understand the difference between a combat log and a combat parser. all they think about when they even see or hear the word combat log is the bad memories from being humiliated in front of their groups for not pulling their weight or whatever happened to them that makes them dislike the idea. How can you NOT want to know what happened to your character? Are you trying to tell me that if combat logs would not enable dps meters and the like people would still oppose the idea of a basic combat log telling you what exactly happened to YOUR character? I can't believe that, it's insanity.

the personal log is not a combat log in its usual understanding, it's a log file you can analyze outside of the game, not a real time combat log you can click, check what happened 10 seconds earlier, then continue with your gaming.

I can understand players reservations when it comes to dps meters, I know they can cause trouble for some people. The problem at hand is, a basic combat log allowing for parsing of combat data is a (harmful?/unwanted?) side effect, not what a combat log is all about in the first place. The main use of a combat log is allowing a player to see what happened to his character in any given combat situation. It is such a basic feature in any mmo ... It is completely unacceptable to release a game that is not only missing this feature but even worse, we get an announcement that there will be no combat logs whatsoever... You cannot be serious. Please tell me there will be a proper combat log like people are used to and have utilized for more than a decade now in every single other MMO to be released.

you're in the minority. this game is not made for people like you, Bioware does not care what you expect from a MMO. this game is made for people who have no expectations, don't want to know, don't care. by the way - you do realize combat logs are NOT coming at all, right? What they will add to the game with patch 1.2 is an out-of-game parser allowing you to analyze combat data you collected from beating up a training dummy on your ship. ludicrous

it all sounds good on paper. but I have no doubts they will mess it up horribly. no doubts whatsoever.

you're in the minority. this game is made for people who do not care and don't want to know. And made by people who do not care and don't want you to know. This realization slowly crept up on me over the last couple of months. And it actually makes it easier to appreciate the game for what it is, a mmorpg light so to speak, if you want to play a real MMO though - keep looking.

How well do you think 87 (!) random players actually represent the hundreds of thousands of players actually playing the game? Maybe the one thing we can learn from it is that the bad players, the ones actually afraid to get called out on their subpar performance spend too much time on the forums instead of playing the game and working on improving themselves? just kidding of course!

Again, you're not understanding the root of the problem, it seems you have some faulty information about the logs!! There are no combat logs coming. The little tab you had in EQ2 next to your default chat tab? The one that read 'combat'? That is not going to be in swtor. I don't care about your combat information, all I need is to see what happened to my character and what my character made happen to other npcs and players. Like clicking on the combat tab in EQ2... this strange out-of-game parser is all we are getting here and that is ridiculous.

Well, that's one thing. Doesn't make a great impression but it is acceptable. Especially because Bioware promised to patch proper combat logs in later. But now they come out of the bushes and tell us combat logs are NOT going to be in the game? At all? They should have saved that one for april fools. and at the same time announcing to work on future ways to support people with ways to evaluate their performance/ their groups performance. How about supporting a way to just retrace what happened to your character within the last 20 seconds or so.... that would be a start.

Still, why force people to go through that extra trouble... I actually use the G15 myself by the way and all I need as far as combat data goes is my dear friend, good ol' combat log. You say you come from a EQ II background. That game had a combat log as well....I am not talking about anything extensive here. Just the basic combat log...

I posted before why combat logs are important for many players. if you don't care to know what happened to your character, that's your decision and I do respect it. And If you are looking for more arguments, reread my last couple of posts and look a little harder. Not going to repeat myself. Read them, understand them, don't just look for ways you can twist them around to drag on this entirely meaningless and otiose dispute. that being said, we can have a proper discussion about MMO's once you know what you are talking about and reached a point where I can deem wasting more time than I already did on you, worthy. Until then I have to treat you just like the rest of the trolls and fanboys.

no no, exactly that is my understanding as well. which is the whole problem. I was mentioning dps meters because this is what the whole discussion revolves around. Read through this thread, 9/10 responses put combat log = dps meter / group parsing. The whole discussion revolves around people who are apparently very afraid of dps meters for obvious reasons and people who lobby hard for them for equally obvious reasons. I don't care about any of these people. I want one of the most basic MMO features, that's all. I want my combat log. I don't want Bioware's warped idea of a combat log that will most likely be clunky to use, require me to sift through meaningless data and worst of all - isn't implemented in the game but requires me to work through the data outside of the game. I don't want to do any parsing. I want to look at my combat log while playing the game and be able to see instantly what happened to my character over the last 20 seconds or so. I want it all, the damage I ate, the damage I dealt, the mitigation and DR on both sides, my parries, dodges, shields and misses. I want to see the name of the player dotting me up, I want to see when the boss crit me, I want to see everything I might possibly want to know, in the game, instantly. And no, it might seem like it but it's not too much to ask for a game like this. Because that is exactly the way everybody has been doing it in any other MMO for the last 15 years or so.

can you please link me to a reputable source stating that the tool does function as a real time combat log? All the info I found pretty clearly states if you want to see any numbers you need to do it out of the game. In the game the only things you will read is what or who killed you and who/what were killed by you phew, another rational comment. thank god! I agree, what really worries me is the stance Bioware is taking. You couldn't expect anything else from the community but the devs themselves... They have shown clearly before, for example with FFA warzones allowing 50 premades to farm level 10 characters, that some of their decision makers need a reality check...I hope it happens soon.