I Bolded for emphasis. Force Regen you say? Really? Are you actually trying to be serious? You consider TEN force every TEN SECONDS to be Force Regen? That equates to what...1 Force per second? Darkness gets a 30% buff which I think ends up being 3 per second. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...Saber Conduit is a joke. The limit needs to be reduced down to about every 3 seconds.

Just a quick question on this item. Where is the best (and by proxy, easiest) place for a 47 Assassin (Deception) to track down this thing? I've read both Hoth and the Foundry as random drops. I really on want the Top and Pants (yes, PANTS), and I already know the Talz Taskmaster is the best bet for the Pants and maybe the boots. But, is there a Champion on Hoth I could continually murder in hopes of this item dropping? I was thinking of getting the Heroic 4 quests that I never did and killing their end bosses to see which one drops what slot. Would finding the one that drops orange chest pieces be my best bet? Since I do not yet have an orange belt or Bracers, does the set have these? And where would I go to grind em out? (that's what she said, I know) Thanks ahead of time for any answers.

Oh, ok. I was doing some research on TORHead, and it said that assault switched to more Crit than Surge upon become becoming blue...I was sadly disappointed. Both Assault and Wily improve to 14 crit and 23 surge when blue. Kinda lame, really.

Honestly, they already have similar coding in the Inquisitor class itself. Sorcerers get a passive that increases the duration of Vortex to 60 seconds. Was where I got the idea from. If they get all these spiffy passives, why can't we?

Ok, so I was on Voss yesterday and decided to go visit the Artificing trainer and seem if I had any new recipes seeing as how I was at 357 skill level. I get there and see a ginormous list of enhancements I could training...somewhere around 20-30. So, I start training them all and don;t notice until I'm near the end of the list that it says 360 next to the name, meaning I need 360 skill points to get this recipe. So, I then check my recipe "book" for the newest version of the enhancement that is in my gear. Being an Assassin, I use Battle, the +crit and +surge one with more crit than surge. I find Battle Enhancement 19 on the list and look at it, and from 17 it jumped from crit/surge to crit/shield. Perplexed, I continued looking through the list. I found two other enhancements with crit and surge on them. These are Assault and Wily. They both give +12 Crit and +18 Surge. If I'm not mistaken, shouldn't one give +18 crit and +12 surge? Also, if I'm not mistaken, shouldn't Battle be the 18/12 one (Battle 19 gives 18 crit and 12 shield...) and Assault be the 12/18 one? Is this a known bug? If it is, is there anything I can do to fix it? Or am I screwed until Bioware /eventually/ gets around to fixing it?

I was thinking that. Chances of it being on CD while you have 5 charges running out is low since those refresh and last forever when they don't. Still say the limit on Saber Conduit should be lowered to 5 seconds. Will make it noticeable, but still less than what Darkness already gets.

Again, your math is faulty. Just because an ability CAN proc three times off an ability doesn't mean it will. I've had times when no Surging's proc'd off of Saber Strike, or did so three times. Same with Voltaic. With one point into Saber Conduit, the chances of you getting that 10 force off of a Saber Strike is stupid low. I'd settle for every 5 seconds. Still less Force than Blood of Sith provides and would be about where it would activate on a proper Deception "rotation". I do the quotations cause Deception has more of a priority list than a rotation. Something along the lines of: If low on Force, Blackout Use Maul if Expose Weakness is up. Use Shock if you have 2 stacks of Induction and Voltaic Slash. Use Discharge if you have 5 Static Charges. Use Voltaic Slash. Use Execute if target is below 30% health. Pepper in Interrupts and Stuns as needed. If low on Force, Saber Strike. Kind of simple really. I usually only use Voltaic Slash, Maul, Shock and Discharge in most fights.

Your math is actually making it sound better than it is. On a single point, it provides a 33% chance when Surging procs, which is only 25% of the time. If I'm not doing my rough math here wrong, that means on one point, it has a 8%ish chance to proc once every 10 seconds. Also, I may be whining, but I am making very valid points. Saber Conduit needs to be changed. Maybe not have it's limit taken off completely, but reduced to somewhere under five seconds. How could gaining TEN force (again, less than half a thrash) 25% of the time every three seconds possibly be OP? On that subject, how is giving a spec with likely the lowest dps (don't know the actual numbers) a slight dps boost via an opener so OP? In all honesty, I'd change three things with the Assassin that would add a boost to a Deception (full spec) Assassin and some to the other ones as well. Fix Assassin's Training. Lower the limit on Saber Conduit to 3 seconds. Deceptive Power now activates Expose Weakness while Stealth is active. No really OP boosts there. Would just make the Spec flow a bit better. Expose weakness (if the target has 25% damage reduction) makes Maul do what...12.5% more of it's actual damage? Heaven forbid we be allowed to do that out of stealth!

Nothing wrong with it? Have you ever been Deception? I NEVER notice this going off. Not because of the low amount Force it gives back (10 is NOTHING when the lowest costing ability you have is 25), but because of the 10 second limit. Now, if it were going off whenever Surging procs, I'd likely actually notice having more force to sit there and use something other than our basic attack. Hell, it'd give Deception's a reason to use their basic attack. Again, it's not the worst talent in the world, but it could be more...useful. Not sure how, but it's just sorta, blah in it's current form. Is pretty much the standard for most deception talents. On a rare few bring umph and a feeling of a build to the...build. Fine as is? That's not even HALF an extra ability. 25 maybe, cause that'd allow us to use an extra Voltaic Slash I would, except for the fact that I'd rather drop down and get Entropic Field. Though, I never really notice the -30% aoe damage saving me from much (was getting destroyed by a spinning blades mob on Voss yesterday). In it's current useless form, I could consider dropping Saber Conduit for this Talent. Way over powered? It's TEN force. Again, TEN force. As stated above, that's not even HALF of an extra ability on 30% of my attacks. And (yes, I'm being sarcastic here), oh gosh, TWENTY guaranteed Force every 90 seconds? Say it isn't so! I just ALMOST earned a free Voltaic Slash! Also, as a Deception (the only reason you'd go that high up the tree), we don't use Thrash, so that set bonus doesn't effect us. Maybe not automatically, but I'd settle for around a 50% chance. Though, I'd also accept your variant. Not really OP, but would gives us something worth using out of Stealth. Again, the main focus of my post is one of the most UP Builds in the game, Deception. It has a good bit of potential fluidity, but never really takes advantage of it. Deception is essentially sub par constant dps with zero burst. We're kinda like a DoT...we don't do much damage per hit, but if you ignore us for our full duration (aka, if you don't kill us) we'll do some decent damage. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't Darkness (you know, the tanking spec) do more damage than Deception? Edit: Speaking of Spinning Blades above, why don't Assassin's get an ability this awesome? I'd so stop in an big aoe situation and channel this skill. If I'm not mistaken, it'd also proc Static Charges allowing a likely fully charged Surging Discharge to be used right out of it.

I've relinquished most of my previous views. Though, Deception needs some sort of an opener...a reason to use Stealth for something other than bypassing mobs back through a cave/building. Also, no comments on my issue with Saber Conduit? To review what this talent does: On THREE points, it gives a 100% chance to gain TEN force on an ability that only procs 25% of the time. Sounds useful and not OP right there, BUT it can only trigger once every TEN seconds. Other craptastic talents: Obfuscation At THREE ranks it allows us to move at 100% base speed (still turns off sprint) while stealthed...and that's about it. Suppose to also rase your stealth level by ONE per rank, but stuff still sees me all the time. Deceptive Power One rank that gives us TEN (that's right TEN) whole extra Force. Resourcefulness Of all the abilities to lower the Force cost on, they chose Lacerate? Outside of very select circumstances, who wastes Force on Lacerate? Even after blowing two points on this talent to get the cost down to 30, it STILL costs too much. Then there's Static Cling and Insulation which are obviously pvp abilities, so they're cool. I'd replace Deceptive Power with: Critical Hits increase your force by 10. No lockout cause crit can;t really get to levels that would make this talent OP. OR The first ability used out of Stealth automatically critically hits.

Honestly, I was looking at our Force Regen skills again, and Dark Embrace really only needs to be increased to about 10, MAYBE 15 seconds. But, the biggest thing that would help Deception with Regen would be to remove to the 10 second timer on Saber Conduit. Why even put it on a skill that gives TEN Force every time a skill that only procs 25% of the time goes off? That's one hell of a Regulation on an underwhelming skill that I don't even notice when it does go off.

At he bare minimum, fixing Assassin's Training and taking Spike off the GCD is correct. But, to help out Deception a little bit, increase Dark Embrace to 10 seconds at the least and remove the 10 second limitation on Saber Conduit. Did they not think that gaining 10 force on 25% of our attacks wasn't limited enough? I do agree that at first blush, that combo you listed sounds OP. But, you have to keep in mind that said combo can only be used once every 60 seconds. And is only powerful if an Assassin blows their Oh Crap button to burn one person. Also, it can be easily countered by someone with even a small amount of intelligence and are watching their Assassin. (our double blades give us away) See us suddenly vanish as we're running at you? Do whatever it is your class does to get people away from you. As far as Force Lighting Proc'ing Duplicity, they need to fix that. FL is a channeled DoT. And as such, is not a direct damage ability. Another issue I'd like to address. Since so many people are so adamant against making Spike an opener, I'd like to suggest taking one of Deception's most worthless talents (Deceptive Power) and have it give us a reason to use Stealth for combat reasons. You know, other than slooooowly creeping into position. Have it make all attacks out of stealth have either a 50% or 100% chance to Critically Hit. And before you call OP...TWICE A FIGHT! At the start and once again if we blow our Oh Crap button.

Better off to ignore those tooltips. Consider Cunning to be like Agility in WoW. While Rogues were melee fighters, they used Agility over Strength. Think of Vette like a Hunter...or better yet, a Smuggler. They (especially Sharpshooters) use mainly ranged skills, but cunning is still their main skill. Just keep giving her Cunning gear. Don;t believe me? Go to her page on your character sheet and hover over her cunning stat. It'll have a +ranged bonus score as well as a myriad of others where as her aim only raises one or two.

This, right here. Common curtsey is one of those things that people just don;t seem to have anymore. That and you know...common sense. Guess they aren't so common anymore.

If only it worked this way. Steps 1-3 are good, but you suddenly forget how stupidly designed Spike is. So, you expect me to hit a Voltaic Slash AND a Maul in 0.5 of a second? That combo takes at least another 1.5 seconds to do. It should go more like: 4. Hope to god Expose proc'd off of Spike and Maul. If not target is now up and facing you, use Low Slash or Electrocute. 5. Maul if Expose has proc'd, if not use your remaining CC and hope Expose procs. If nothing else, we need to have the limitation taken off Saber Conduit, it's stupid and only succeeds in giving us gimped hope, make Deceptive Power useful, and give us a true Gap Closer. And yes, I know we're not a Rogue. The closest thing we can be compared to is a Cat Druid. Thing is, they had a gap closer...and an opener. Also, if anything for Spike, it shouldn't proc a Global.

Why thank you for the votes of confidence. If not Force Speed, then a new ability. Also, a port to behind does have a high chance of being OP, but not if done correctly. As I said, put a 30 second cooldown on it. That's pretty much once a battle, at the start. Not like we'd be popping up behind people for a Maul every 5-10 seconds. THAT would be over powered indeed.

Actually, I'm an assassin. Was my first character and is my main. Also, you call Force Speed a gap closer? It's uncontrollable and only last two seconds with a what...30 second recharge? It's a joke. And Stealth is hindrance when gap closing unless you put two points into obfuscation, and ya still move too slow. A gap closer that puts us behind an enemy would stop us from missing the first 3-5 seconds of a fight. Spike is a stun you say? If it were meant to be a stun ability, it'd do so for more than half of a second. I know the ability says it knocks a target down for two, but it also stop US from using any other ability for 1.5 seconds. Also, if it were meant to be a CC ability, why from stealth? Who stuns something for two seconds at the START of a fight? We (as deception) have THREE other skills that do the same thing that can be used out of stealth. And yes, I am getting rather tired of always being out of force and would like a RELIABLE way to always have SOME. Darkness gets Blood of Sith which gives them 30% increased regen at all times. Deception gets what? 30% for SIX seconds when ever we pop out of stealth (or use blackout with a talent)? I agree with Tumult, and all abilities like it. They are entirely too restrictive. Also, defined by their weaknesses? We still wear Light armor, which makes us squishy, still even no real burst, even with my changed Spike, and still have to constantly stay behind a target to do max damage. It is highly obvious that Bioware designed Deception Assassin's to be the game's steady dps to fill out when the bursters are gearing back up for another round. Thing is, our force regen is so low that we can barely do that.

I decided that rather than posting my various suggestions across other people's posts, I'd put them all in one place and see what other people think. Note that I have no experience with Darkness or Madness and will need input for others who use these specs. My ideas will be aimed toward improving one of the lowliest spec's in the game, Deception. Assassin's Training: The first thing this ability needs is to be fixed. It has been proven in my other thread that Shock is not receiving it's state 25% damage boost. Secondly, that damage boost needs to be clarified. Is it the base damage, or the damage after all our multipliers? To our passive I would add the line "Force Speed now puts the Assassin behind a target if one is selected upon use". This means that if you have an enemy or hostile player targeted and are within 30 meters, you are transported behind them. This not only gives Deception a gap closer (which we sorely need). it also gives one to Darkness and allows them to use Force Pull as a way to corral any mobs that may peel toward a healer or dps. I would also add a second passive that has one of three effects depending on which talent tree you have the most points in. For Deception, it would give all attacks out of stealth a 50% increased chance to Crit. Before anyone calls OP, this means passive can only be used once or twice on a normal fight. The second time only counts if we blow our oh crap button. Spike: This ability is joke, plain and simple. Which is sad cause of how utterly awesome it looks when used. I'd increase the damage by ten fold and add in a from behind stipulation. To balance this with the Darkness talent Eye of the Storm, along with removing the Stealth requirement, it would also remove the Flanking requirement as well as reduce it's damage by 75%. Force Starvation: Any Deception Assassin can attest to this being one of our biggest problems on any sort of drawn out fight. Darkness gets lots of inherent regen and can gain access to Dark Embrace. All we get is a wimpy SIX second buff when we pop out of stealth or use Blackout. Yeah, you read that right, a whole SIX seconds of extra regen every (at the minimum) 45 seconds! The first thing I'd do to fix this is make Dark Embrace last 30 seconds. Secondly, I'd take the limitation off Saber Conduit. We get TEN whole force every time Surging Charge (a 25% chance) procs...but only once every 10 seconds? Edit- I'd also change the talent Deceptive Power. It's more an insult than anything if you think about it. TEN extra force? When Sorcs for 100 from one of their first talents? I'd change it to "Critical Hits increase force by 10 cannot occur more than once every 5 seconds." All these changes would help bring us in line with other classes and specs. Not so much with damage as Spike is the only buff I'm asking for, but with consistency. So yeah, thoughts and other ideas? Edit: Forgot, Dark embrace is 6 seconds, not 10.

Did you not see the test that someone else did? He took himself and a sorcerer at 50 and stripped them both down to no gear and no talents. They then proceeded to shock duel each other. Thing is, his Shock wasn't doing any sort of noticeably higher damage. Which, he should have seen given that we are suppose to be doing 25% more damage.

But, only if you're darkness. It's useless to the other two specs as it either has to be an opener or you have to blow Force Shroud to use. Can only be used from stealth? That BEGS to be a sick opener or a reason to use Force Shroud as more than an Oh ***** button. It's kinda sad for an ability that just looks sick. Force lift followed by a stab that rams the target into the ground? THAT'S the kind of flare that our class needs more of. But, this thread is about our non functioning passive. Hopefully Bioware reads this and realizes this grievous bug.

No, we're asking if it works at all. Given all the data that has been found thus far, it doesn't even do what you're saying cause it'd still be doing a decent amount more than an even level Sorcerer's Shock, which it's not. Oh, and gosh forbid Assassin's actually got a powerful ability!

Bioware shafting Assassin's more so than they already have. Makes ya wonder if the Shadow's passive works or not...cause if I'm not mistaken, all their stuff mirrors ours. But with pebbles and such.

Are you sure that's how it works? My comparative experiment would be to differ. I was three levels higher than the Sorcerer I asked, which means our spells were either the same rank, or mine was higher. I had more WP and slightly less actual Power, and yet his skill (that doesn't have the 25% damage buff) was doing more damage. How it SHOULD work is take the current base damage of the skill which would lead to a +100 damage increase on the upper and 75 increase on the lower. Better yet, it'd be the base damage plus your power mod mutiplied by 1.25 which would lead to a 120 on the lower and a 150 on the max. A bit better. With my talents, it'd be able to get darn near 2k crits with Shock. THAT'S how hard a melee glass cannon should be able to hit when properly spec'd.

I agree, face kicking people in pvp would be awesome!

You have to keep in mind that a lot of the issues (minus the Catharr) are proper head slot fittings. I've not seen a Twi'lek in a hat, but I imagine it took them a ton of time to get it to work. Can you imagine how hard it has to be to get a head item to fit properly on tentacles AND horns? Do you make them vanish altogether, or do they distort it to fit all the way around or do parts stick out? I've seen screenshots of Ashara (inquisitor pet and Togruta) wearing a hooded chest piece. The hood goes where it would on a normal human...as in under her extra bits creating a horrendous looking clipping issue. If you'll notice, the heavy armor wearing species can't be Twi'lek.