CoD is crap kiddy shooter that caters to casuals. BF isn't competitive. CS is king of shooters, but the 'gearing' isn't 'progression' and more resource/money management.

OP You are not hard core PvPer. If you were a hard core PvPer then you would demand that there be an EVEN PLAYING FIELD. Because if everyone has the same gear, then only the best and hardest of core pvpers would still win. What you are asking for is a buffer so you can beat undergeared people more easily, when really that mechanic is already in place. You just grind faster then everyone, then you have a momentary window before everyone else catches up in which you are better geared than them. The stated rewards for being highly rated is fine. Its cosmetic, and if you care about a fair playing field, then cosmetic things are the most you can ask for, and I am happy with them. Also to all those herp-derps saying that MMO'S REQUIRE GEAR PROGRESSIONS. No they don't. What part of MMO-RPG stands for getting gear? Oh wait? None of it? The problem here is that if you want REAL COMPETITIVE PVP then you have to have an even gearing amongst the players, with the smart ones min/maxing certain stats better then others. If you want gear progression, then you are not in favor of competitive pvp because you are asking for a handicap to be placed on the enemy because you possess better gear. TL;DR if you are demanding a gear progression then you are not a hardcore pvper and you are not in favor of competitive pvp. You are deluding yourself. Voloon, you are one of these delusional people.

Personally, I'm going to move all my Juggernaut War Hero gear into the lvl 40 Merc PvP gear and be a massive troll.

And Juggernauts. That place is like a freaking jungle gym. Seriously, Juggernaut is border OP in Huttball.

I consider these things to be MECHANICS. Like in huttball, I consider it a MECHANIC in gameplay that teammates need to be ahead of a ball carrier to help progress the ball. That isn't a strategy, its a necessary part in how you play the warzone. Its like trying to say that line of sighting is a strategy, its not, its a game mechanic that should be executed easily and without thought. Things like this should be second nature and deciding when to do them is part of the mechanics. The strategy is your overarching plan of attach and how the manipulation of those mechanics result in a victory. But because of the dumb way respawns work, any form of strategy is circumvented by people like me. A juggernaut who knows how to move around the map really fast and stop door caps because lol doors on voidstar are terrible.

But how can a team move to assist doors if you are not going left or right? Why would they even need to assist a door if you are not applying pressure to one side or the other. You speak as if resolve works in this game or that there arn't classes that can be immune to CC for a short period.

See Number 2 of my win conditions. Only a massive group of idiots would send 8 people to attack 3. And the randomness of door respawns is still accounted for in this strategy. So really, the only 'effective' strategy in Voidstar is one in which you can find out how to corral a majority of the enemy team into one spot so you can mass AoE. And this doesn't happen against teams who play the basics of voidstar right. You can have the basics of Huttball down and still find new ways to move the ball or win. You can't really do that in voidstar.

You can't gain an offensive position on mid if both teams just stand on the side by the doors, eventually you will have to sway one way or the other to engage. But a lot of the stuff you talked about is proper mechanics. lets look at huttball strategy for comparison. Pulling the ball back to camp with it during a close game with seconds left on the clock. Throwing the ball away when your team controls mid. Using various ways to advance the ball in huttball, like by sorc pulls. Stealther in the goal line, 'let the juggernaut have it'. These are strategies. Standing in the middle of the map and using game mechanics isn't a 'strategy'. There is no metagame to Voidstar. There is no, "oh what could this guy be trying to do by going this way". Its HOLY CRAP THE DOORS, NEED TO GET OUT OF THIS RESPAWN AREA, NEED TO LEAVE. on the other side is HURR THEY HAVE TOO MANY HEALERS!! WE CAN'T KILL THEM FAST ENOUGH BEFORE MORE JUST REZ IN!! WHYYYY really, every game can be stopped in the first room if each team left 1 defensive stealther who's only job was to stop people from capping once a majority of their team is dead. Bam, I just broke the voidstar metagame.

Then why does an offensively geared Juggernaut specced Immortal always win 100% of the time over a marauder of any spec.

Marauders and Snipers are Pure DPS classes Juggernauts are Hybrid Tank DPS. The heavy armor, even in the DPS specs, comes at a cost of your DPS. Its called game balance.

Since when was choosing left or right considered a strategy. There is no strategy. If the players are of comprabale skill then the game is decided before the match starts, and that is because of team compoision, which cannot always be controlled because its still a random queue. There is no strategy to voidstar other then bringing 3 healers and having your DPS spam their damage rotations and making sure that atleast someone is watching both doors at all times. 0 strategy Please, describe to me a 'strategy' that works in voidstar that doesn't get hard countered by keeping your eyes open.

The 3 different win conditions of Voidstar. 1. Insanely out gearing the other team. 2. Have one guy who derps out and doesn't watch his side. 3. The respawn doors screw you over because sometimes people respawn to an open door and its as if they never died at all.

I'd congratulate you if you didn't use imageshack, but since you used imageshack, you are a terrible juggernaut. L2p

Eh, nothing to amazing once I saw how much healing you were getting and how bad the enemy team was. Its good for vengeance though. but gj, i hate vengeance to much to even attempt to do that much damage as it

Why does the Sith Warrior look like a he is in some flat, ugly textured clown suit? The BH and trooper.. They all seem to get varied polygons to show difference in their suits, even on chest ornaments, but nope, not with the juggernaut. has this cloak clasp that is essentially paper against their chest. Trooper wins with best looking gear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zdTpIfDWyr4#t=107s

They said NEW abilities, more specifically, they did not say MORE abilities. So perhaps in 1.2 they are removing/replacing/seriously reworking some abilities that warriors have. Less Hit, more Power on items would fix this. Its kinda wacky that default itemization pushes you to the DR of hit.

Something I havn't thought of, which may explain why I consider other specs worthless. Is that I consider Immortal Jug (with offensive gear, atleast) to be the best counter to Jugs and heavy hitters of the team. You can dance circles around an enemy juggernaut and keep them locked down for a good a mount of time, preventing their damage from being done. A lot of my force pushes I use are to remove people from combat. There are some interesting places where you can force push in alderaan at the right spots and push people over walls, removing them from the main battle for about 30 seconds. And then there is the obvious stuff you can do in Huttball with push. Honestly, when you have teammates with rolling with an immortal jug as described in this build, you are a serious threat to healers. If you set ground rules for your teammates not to resolve cap healers and such so that the jug can take care of interrupt rotations, then the healer isn't going to get anything off besides instant casts. You are right though, there shouldn't be more then one person filling this role within a warzone. Personally when it comes to rated Warzones, I may only roll Immortal Utility within Huttball all the time, and then maybe in Alderaan on certain occasions, I will be running Rage on Voidstar/Alderaaan. Because the gameplay on those maps is so.... uninspiring? Its best to just roll as a bulldozers at times. But really, this whole thread is bound to change with 1.2 Who knows, maybe they will make warzleaders gear worth having?

screenshots plox on that kind of damage, because I have only never broken 300k on veng only in a few rare instances on Voidstar. Maybe my veng is so low because our server is saturated with troopers, and veng really really sucks against them. But maybe this wouldn't be so confusing if I didn't have 3 different people at once interpretting what I said as different. If I made a typo then I'm sorry, but my stance against vengeance is just its limited survivability and lack of control. I got all crazy vindictive because I thought someone was trying to tell me that Soresu Vengeance had better rage generation then Soresu Immo, which just doesn't seem possible given the skill sheet the two specs have. I agree with you on the damage, but Vengeance quickly becomes a waste of time if they have well geared tanks that know what they are doing, at least in my experience. But to be honest, this has happened before, you say this is a grea thread, but maybe somewhere on page 15 or 20 people started to come in here to discuss why they think other specs are better. The only time I see that the discussion for other specs in this thread is that if they have an overlapping purpose with the build I describe. When I said other specs were worthless, I was speaking in forms of utility. Sure, Rage has its purpose in clearing out a room and Vengeance has the sustain to take out pesky healers if you stay on target, but they don't have the same role as Immo. Sorry if my angry attempts at keeping the thread on topic hasn't worked, I'll keep that in check.

Bring other classes with higher damage to complement the Juggernaut. Bring a Marauder and a Sniper. You will effectively be increasing their damage with the sunders on a target so some of what the Juggernaut contributes to the raid isn't in their ability damage alone. That an any Jug can go into soresu at any given moments notice and off tank something should they need to. A squishier class could not do this.

Because I change specs between the two and there is only like a 50k difference in damage done. Where I do 200k in immortal and 250k as vengeance. I consider that the same in the grand scale of burstiness, which is the metric of PvP damage. Soresu Immortal Rage Generation is better then Soresu Vengeance. If you are disputing this then you havn't played the spec at all or you havn't managed your CD's properly. Sweeping Fury amongst other things you can do in your play style will yield so much rage that you will essentially be near rage capped while in a thick battle. Going as Shien in a warzone is essentially a death wish, if you are having a good experience with Shien Vengeance in warzones then perhaps you are overestimating the skill of your enemies. The only times you should ever be outside Soresu is during your first and initial rage dump, any other time after that and you are just setting yourself up to get killed really, really fast and skills like self Intercede are not going to help you against other players who know how to peel.

What? No, I was saying we don't need PvE skills in Rage. Its counter productive. Ops in its current forms are about single target damage, and currently that resides in Veng. We don't need a PvE rage spec as others have been asking for because it would only limit the diversity that Jugs need atm.

You don't need 2 pve specs for one class. But Soresu needs to benefit the class more then it does now. Right now Soresu is only marginally better as Immortal Spec then in the other specs, the only real noticble things is that you just get better rage generation while Immortal. It needs mitigation on par with troopers/BH tanks. I don't really agree with vengeance. There is no point to rolling vengeance in PvP at the moment unless you want to be a hinderance to the team. Its like Ultralisks in Starcraft 2. You only make them if you are really far ahead in the game and want to lose, that is how I feel about Vengeance. You play the spec if you want to lose, because Rage offers infinitely more damage then vengeance and Immortal does slightly less damage then vengeance, its just a really poorly designed spec.

This is only useful for questing. You need your companion out to activate it and such, so its going to be limited to only leveling it seems.

Here are my hopes for the Warrior changes, in terms of juggernaut play. Immortal - Not much work to be done here, maybe a few Skills could be changed or perhaps the nature of Defense can be changed, but otherwise the playstyle that is promoted within this tree in its current form is really fun. I hope they make changes that improve Immortal surivability while still keeping their stuns and utility in place. Vengeance - This tree is an absolute mess. Points are too expensive and all your bread and butter Skills are on a 9 second cooldown, which means you have to resort to rotating lack luster attacks. The dots don't really help much for PvP and the survivability talents are way out of place. There is no flow to it at all. IMO the survivability in Vengeance should come from doing damage, not from doing defensive things, if that makes any sense. Also they need to change the way pooled hatred works, it currently isn't that great and doesn't add much to your overall burst in PvP. Rage - This tree is also an absolute mess which borders in the areas of being over powered. IMO a good way to treat Rage would be to make it the Force Ability tree. One thing they could do is nerf the damage on smash but buff the damage on force scream. What do I mean by this? I think the tree could be better balanced if Force Scream was hitting in the 3.5-5.5k range while smash got its damage lowered. I'm just of the opinion that it is WAY to easy to do the amount of damage you do in Rage in its current form. The way the buffs work is also kinda wonky, its a good idea, but I think it could use some smoothing out. tl;dr Immo needs minor survivability tweaking, Veng needs more upfront burst and less dots and herp-derp survivability and Rage needs its flow to be swapped around for higher single target burst and lessened aoe burst. also, new abilities for warriors? Thanks bioware, just what I needed, more buttons.

No, stacked team comps will win. A Sorc, Assassin, Powertech and Jug team in huttball would absolutely blow past everything. Voidstar on the otherhand is more about a balanced group comp. You need burst, but you also need Healers and certain classes dedicated to killing healers and being tank killers. Alderaan will be all about group cohesion and movement. I don't think group composition will matter as much in Alderaan as others due to the nature of the warzone's map design. Bioware has already stated that they are changing the game balance for longer drawn out fights. I consider the surge nerf to be the first step in this direction and in the long term, I don't think heavy burst teams are going to be the ones that win games.