This. I've seen 2 Jedi Shadow hold off 5 people trying to attack a point until the rest of their team ran from the other side of the map. Its pretty much impossible to deal with the chain saps, stuns, knockbacks and their own CC immunities. Its about buying time until the rest of the team arrives.

I said Rated games. If you are doing Rated group with pugs, then the conversation ends here. I am talking strictly about 8v8 with premade teams where you queue into the game with 8 teammates. I am talking about top level teams who will be playing each other on the queue system because they will only be up against other top level teams. Your scenario still doesn't hold water and you act like the defending team is going to be static. Also how is this stealth capper going to stealth cap? 2 people attack the side had potentially the same output and if you have 3 healers in a warzone, 1 on each point and 1 in the X group, then you are just going to be met by a brick wall every time. The people at X will be able to move between people spawning trying to charge mid. the X position can be reinforced from flying into the side node and running. Mid can be reinforced by taking the middle point. So really, there is no way to actually penetrate this position if you assume equally skilled teams.

huttball on the other hand has a higher individual player skill cap. There is more to huttball then just standing on a point and moving around and preventing caps. The timed pitfalls, teammed coordination and the dynamic nature of Huttball allows for more scenarios to possibly happen. There are only a few scenarios that will play out in Alderaan. There is also a variety of abilities and techniques that can be used in different ways to allow the development of a Metagame within huttball, this is not true in alderaan.

If you want to assume that both teams are exactly the same, then the game will be 1 cap on each team and who ever got theirs first wins. Its a poorly designed map when stalemates are built in at every point.

http://i.imgur.com/0Iaka.jpg The image above shows the perfect positioning that will NEVER be broken. Asssuming that both sides are of moderately comparable skills, then the game will be decided in the first 2 minutes on how they distribute players on the initial rush. The Green X with a circle represents where you store your reserve forces. Each point will primarily be defended by 2 people with 4 people occupying the X region where they will move and run to either mid or side point depending on where they are needed. Feints do not work. Any and all actions taken against either point will have a short reinforce distance and all actions will be seen by the defending team. Lost players can easily reinforce which ever node and most of the time, enemies can already be safely slowed and engaged away from the point, allowing for adequate respawns to move in. As it exists, there is currently NO metagame within Alderaan Civil war. The map is broken and biased towards defending teams. 1 stealther on each point could easily delay anyone attempting to cap for the forces from the X position to move into to stop them. The only way that the green team would ever be broken in this position would be if they are bad players or their gear is crap. But assuming that teams are even for the most part, then its a boring stalemate that favors defending. The only way you win Alderaan is by severely dominating the enemy team or you get lucky by capping a point first or when someone wasn't looking. Amazing balance bioware. This needs to be fixed before rated games come out. remove side speeders and give attackers the advantage.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=434406 I had posted a similar thread recently without noticing this one too much. Take a look. Took keep more in line with the blood thirsty Baron Deathmark, I propose the following warzone to appease the Hutts. Each team has 1 Ball Carrier at all times, or the team is penalized. The objective is to kill the enemy ball carriers in order to score a certain amount of points. Points could potentially be generated by regular player kills, but dropping a ball carrier could yield more points or a group buff. Once a ball is passed and caught, it cannot be passed again for a certain amount of time. The longer a person carries a ball, there could be either be some sort of buff or damage resistance to that player, or maybe certain actions could be performed by you team to put a debuff on the enemy ball carrier. Perhaps consoles which could toggle certain buff/debuff combinations on either your ball carrier vs the enemies. Maybe enemy consoles could be attacked and shut down for a period of time allowing them to lose their bonuses. The Arena could be huttball-esque, pitfalls, traps, etc. The game ends when time has run out or if an enemy team is just flat out dominating the other team for a period of time. The team with the most points wins. Suggestions?

Tank classes would actually have a good role to fill within this warzone. I play immortal, and I think it would be pretty fun to dance around the enemy with all my stuns and what not. Although this idea would only really work if they made tanking armor viable in pvp.

Took keep more in line with the blood thirsty Baron Deathmark, I propose the following warzone to appease the Hutts. Each team has 1 Ball Carrier at all times, or the team is penalized. The objective is to kill the enemy ball carriers in order to score a certain amount of points. Points could potentially be generated by regular player kills, but dropping a ball carrier could yield more points or a group buff. Once a ball is passed and caught, it cannot be passed again for a certain amount of time. The longer a person carries a ball, there could be either be some sort of buff or damage resistance to that player, or maybe certain actions could be performed by you team to put a debuff on the enemy ball carrier. Perhaps consoles which could toggle certain buff/debuff combinations on either your ball carrier vs the enemies. Maybe enemy consoles could be attacked and shut down for a period of time allowing them to lose their bonuses. The Arena could be huttball-esque, pitfalls, traps, etc. The game ends when time has run out or if an enemy team is just flat out dominating the other team for a period of time. The team with the most points wins. Suggestions?

Here is my feedback in song form.

For a new huttball style map I would love to see a special sort of deathmatch style map. I've had an interesting idea. Each team has a ball carrier at all times. Once you catch a ball, you cannot pass it for X amount of time. The objective of the game is to kill as many as you can, but you gain some sort of bonus (Buff or Score) when you kill the ball carrier. Sort of a game like kill the carrier, so it could be deathmatch with a twist.

When you have fail pugs in a warzone, you tell them what to do, they ignore you, then you get mad and yell at them at what they should be doing, then you just call them a bad player, then they label you like you are an elitist ***** who hurts the community. But really this is just the ignorance of these people who do not want to admit any fault. Warzones are meant to be played a specific way. Knowing how to play the warzone and how to do well within the warzone for your specific role is not something for the 'elite'. Would you consider a Quarter Back in Football an 'elitist *****' when he yells at his wide receiver who should have been running passing patterns, but instead thought it would be a good idea to have a wrestling match with the defensive end for 5 minutes? No, you wouldn't. So stop coming up with this lame excuse that 'Oh you are so elitist in telling me how to play this game'. You are hurting the community if you join into warzones thinking its just going to be a free for all deathmatch, and me pointing that out doesn't make me an elitist. It just makes you blind to how the game is actually played. Sadly, unlike real sports, we can't call fouls and bench the baddies who continue to plague most of our warzones, I just wanted to bring this to your attention. The reason why most Premades do so well is that most of the people in the premade play to win. They play the warzone to win the objective. If more solo queuers were aware of their roles in that respective warzone, then I'm pretty sure all cries of 'Premades are OP' would vanish. Its a matter of knowing how the game is played. This has been a public service announcement.

1 class with stealth who knows how to play his class can delay a team of 4 from capping until his team shows up to stop the assault. This isn't a matter of learning to play, its an inherent bias in the map design that favors who ever has capped a point first. 1 shadow/assassin can delay a cap for ever, which is long enough for teammates to get there. A sentinel/marauder who knows how to use his CD's properly can stall 4 people long enough as well, vanish, self heal, live forever abilities, etc. Defensive CD's and stealth can make taking a point impossible if the defending team is playing properly. None of you seem to get that once Rateds are actually in the game, smart teams will leave Stealth Tanks or Stealth healers on these points. From there they can just chain sap over and over, delay any cap from happening without even engaging in an actual fight. 2 Stealthers is nearly impossible to cap a point from. I don't think you people who are doubting my post have played a team that actually has a proper unit comp. Stealther calls out INCS the moment he sees people coming, chain saps over and over. Assassins can use that CC immunity ******** and sprint in and aoe knockback prevent a whole bunch of people from capping. Its just ridiculous. And by the time the enemy reinforcements arrive from RUNNING FROM ANOTHER POINT, I am not even assuming that people are dying and coming back, its done. Your assault failed. If the team set up is right, they will die at the same rate as your team, so it just becomes a stalemate on a point. Huttball is the only map in this game which actually requires individual player skill to be really good at. Alderaan and Novare coast all come down to capping a point first, and watching and calling out incs. Technically, no team that caps first should ever lose that point if they play the map properly. Voidstar is just a herp-derp based on which team gets luckier with the doors.

This map is a joke and it is poorly designed as voidstar. 1 person can still stop an entire team from assaulting over and over again and the attacking team is ALWAYS going to be at a disadvantage in any situation in that map.

When I find the time, I was going to make a whole new post, taking good posts from me and others and highlighting it into a new post with a better, more flexible title. Seeing as I put a specific build into title, which is somewhat irrelevant, I'm gunna just make a new one and request this thread be closed. As to other recent question. No, I don't run 2x BM relics and I never have. I still feel that the Shard Relic is still one of the BiS for PvP, even when compared to the other relics. It helps provide the highest burst potential when also being used in conjunction with another relic and stims. And to be honest, the Gear you are getting right now, you will have more then enough Crit and Surge, so using the Crit Surge relic is a waste of time for Warriors, you will just be losing alot of potential int he relic to diminishing returns. use a power relic and your shard relic.

Lets remember how useless Defense is and also add on the fact that Devs scaled Expertise to now have less Damage Reduction and more Damage done with less healing done as well. So Devs, honest, What are you plans with Tanks? You bring NOTHING to a warzone if you are actually in tanking gear. Right now DPS gear w/ a healer in defensive stance is the only option if you actually want to be USEFUL in a warzone. There are no warzones with the exception of huttball where living a long time is an actual benefit.

Production on my Immortal and Immortal Hybrid PVP video has begun

You are not really going to be able to deal properly with the differences in expertise. Within this build, it sort of requires that you have the really good DPS set, because you get a good amount of expertise and HP to help keep you alive long enough to be effective. Imo, if you are undergeared, its better to roll a straight DPS oriented spec.

Immo is viable when you wear DPS gear because currently there is no effective role that a full meatshield juggernaut can fulfill.

Alright, Lets get serious here for a moment and discuss how utterly useless Defense is when it is actually applied to Warzones. In the Guild Summit video they had replied that defense was intended to be a counter to the highest DPS, that being Marauders and Snipers. And while this makes sense in a theoretical way, it doesn't actually work that way in most PvP scenarios. To make an analogy, its likes Juggernauts are Paper and Marauders/Snipers are scissors, Defense would increase the paper's toughness, but it also happens that this paper has deployable sticky tape in which it can keep scissors shut, but somehow the makers of the Paper keep on insisting that budget of paper making materials all be spent on increasing its toughness while ignoring how useful that tape is. From my perspective, If you are going to be wearing Defense, you are most likely going to be specced into Immortal, right? Right! So if you are in immortal, some of the best ways to counter a Marauder is to use the many CC's that are given to you. The only way a Marauder can stand up to a Juggernaut without getting destroyed themselves is to either burn all their offensive CD's to try to kill the Juggernaut fast, or they will burn Defensive CD's in order to try to outlive the Juggernaut. The easiest and most surefire way to counter these scenarios is to just stun them, incapacitate or push them away. There, any window of opportunity for that Marauder to actually hurt the juggernaut is gone and that Marauder must now engage at a disadvantage every time. This is ignoring the fact that a majority of people do not optimally play the Marauder class, so sometimes you don't even need to use the Stuns and Stuff, while not even wearing Tanking gear. Realistically, you are giving us a Stat on our tanking set which only counters a minority of the people who play the Marauder class. Since 1.2 my server has been FLOODED with just absolutely bad Marauders who have resubbed. The same stuff applies to Snipers as well, but its even worse when you consider Defense. From what I have encountered, the rate of bad marauders is about the same as the rate of Bad snipers, so atleast 50% of the class population can be countered by CC's because they ineffectively deploy their CC immunities. And while those who are good at the class, they don't really seem to be as heavy into white damage now. On my server, it seems that the current flavor of the balance for Snipers is Engineering or sometype of Engineerng hybrid. Engineering tree favors more yellow damage then white, so engineers who go into this spec don't really have to worry too much about a high defense jug, since they will be applying lots of yellow damage through their explosive probes, grenades, AoE Fire, etc. And if you read most of the posts in the sniper forums, they all seem to be advocating either Engineering or Lethality hybrids, all which emphasize more tech damage. You guys buffed engineering, their tech damage tree, yet still want to claim that Defense counters Snipers? Why the inconsistency? Why is the War Leader's set so heavy in Defense? Its a near useless stat in most practical scnearios, and even in the optimal conditions, where you would expect equally skilled players, most forms of damage can be mitigated by stuns and LoS. So why ruin 1/2 of the juggernaut itemization options? I'd like to hear some community feedback on this, so maybe we can get a good consensus on where Defense is and the role it ACTUALLY plays in warzones, not in the theory crafting that these devs seem to be balancing on, based on their replies to the community.

Unstoppable isn't as great, for me, as everyone seems to make it out to be. I really don't see the problem with getting knocked around on occasion and I think points are better spent to atleast get crushing blow if you are that deep into immo. but what ever you like I guess.

35%, but I am american. I just like the heritage and what not. I originally took it from a character from the anime series Big O. But I like both aspects of the name and what not.

I still don't see the point of defense being so heavily emphasized on the gear for tanks. It only counters Marauders and Snipers. Marauders can easily be countered by cooldowns. When ever they use their defensive cooldown to try to burn you down or something, just push them away or stun them, you just cancelled out the only time they can hurt you with survivability. Good MM snipers are rare to come by, and most don't even use their little bunkering, CC immunity thing that well, so you can probably just run up to them and force push them away 75% of the time. And the really good snipers are usually Engineering, which focuses more on yellow damage, so really, defense won't help you that much against them. There is no reason imo to get tanking gear unless you were doing it for the lulz. Because Besides being a ball runner, I don't see the point of being a 100% meat shield in pvp.

I wouldn't say enraged defense is 'good' yet, but I still have to say its useful. Use a Rakata Stim and Endure pain, then use your Enraged Defense, I've had the heals from it tic for 550. And 550 is pretty good if you are taking massive amounts of Guard damage and the like. It will keep you alive if you have a healer nearby who needs a few moments to finish a cast and what not. I can only imagine that Enraged Defense if you were dumb enough to buy PvP tanking gear, with all that HP and stuff. tl;dr Its better for pure geared tanks, but its dumb to go pure geared tank. The ability is nice and should still be used, but it could be better.

gosh, the most mobile class in the game has to stand still for about 3 seconds, what is the world coming too I can honestly say that I am probably the best jugs on my server who can play all 3 specs properly and probably the best within the whole jug/guardian archetype on my server as well, so yeah, fist pump baby. Also , its a warzone, what the hell is the logic behind 'oh it might turn int 1v2'? You know what I do in 1v2 situations probably 60-70% of the time? I kill them both out right or I can live long enough for my teammates to come assist. You are a jug, even if you are not immortal, you have more then enough capability to live for a long time even if you are not immortal specced. Save your cooldowns for when you actually need them and not when its just convenient. The other 30-40% consists of me running away because jugs are probably one of the best non steath non sprint classes and if you cant escape, then you draw the fight out as long as you can while drawing th enemy into an unfavorable position, meaning if they really want to kill you really bad, make sure they have to spend a few seconds running to get back into the warzone.

been to lazy to update things