so TOR can be just like NPR... Boring Leftist propaganda masquerading as bourgeois political discourse? SOUNDS AWESOME! Query. how do you listen to NPR in your car and NOT fall asleep?

Well said

What I find amusing is how people, who are entralled with the game play, manage to post in every naysayer post...How do you know these post are being posted? Aren't you playing? You can't all be "at work" (at Bioware or EA?)? You know "Fan-boi" isn't a proffesion. *** Full disclosure ***** SWG pre-cu -NGE, deleted "Elder" Jedi 6 months after launch of NGE WoW vanila- Wrath, deleted PvP rank 11 Troll Warrior, 3 lvl 70s and lvl 60 Many other "Great" MMOs that the local Fan-bois defended until they became F2P

I uninstalled this mornng, I have given up on my crusade to get my money back and to improve this game, as nothing short of a CU or NGE will be able to "fix" this mess. Blizzard will go on being the "Champ" not because of their skill or talent or vision but because of the gross incompetence of the competition. It must be like winning at pool because the other guy keeps scratching on the 8 ball, not all that satisfying i would think. I was extremely disappionted in this game...alot of it is personal taste and a devotion to excellence, both which the game , for me, fell short of. This is what MMOs have evolved to, this is what mountains of data have brought the genre to. It makes me sad, to think a genre with so much promise, ends up here at TOR. I had made it my mission to get my $60 back, BUT at this point I figured the management has earned it, not for what the did right but for a demostration of everything wrong. The game got me thinking, not just game mechanics and story telling but music and visuals. Thinking deeply on "what I would have done" has been a source of great entertainment... I actualy feel sorry for the company at this point...Keep the money... Fan-bois ..I didn't give away my stuff..sorry, forgot..I yeild the game and the forum to you, I sincerely hope that my predictions and those of other naysayers are completley wrong and you are able to enjoy this game for as long as you wish. Stop don't say it, WoW died for me at the launch of Wrath, when I deleted all my toons, so I am a man without a game...again, farewell.

I believe this is my 3rd ...DDO , Aion and STO and now this game "Beat me" games so bad that I just couldn't take the leveleing process anymore

General discusion is where this belongs... No if I had one gripe about a specific class ability , or a specific crew skill , then it would belong in a specific forum.

1) It's a small world ... The world and the galaxy feels small, like running up a long tunnel 2) Music...The music is either poorly picked for the location or the timing is off, ie when it cues 3) non-heroic... a)My sidekick seems so much better than my charchter b)dieing to a story elite...just doesn't feel right c) flow is slow(ie "strong Mobs" , elites) tried to level outside the story and return , still flowed the same just slow d) Jumping for Datacrons...seriously ..Mario Bros? 4) Weak stories... a) Kira raised as a Sith and no freaking one figured it out until now?? b) why are there 2 flirt options. I'm a freaking Jedi..Warrior Monks don't flirt grasshopper! c) Wow the empire is always one step ahead of me ...Did they find the script or something? d) does it actually matter what I choose? DS/LS choices just change the "look" not the story. 5) Visuals. a) does this robe make my butt look big? No I look like a female with a big butt!! b)Green lazer beams shooting out at weird angles... c) Obviously painted horizons d) Jawas are NOT plush dolls! e) Tatooine looks crowded with all the structures scattered around... 6) Put that anywhere!! a)Geonosians, reeks, Nexu, ackleys ect..If you want Geonosians to be in the game...Put Geonosis in the freakin' game!! b) Hoth....realy , you couldn't come up with something better than that. 7) class structure... Why stick to a class structure (trinity) in a setting that doesn't support it? The healer-tank-DPS is visually absurd in this setting!! If you couldn't come up with Game mechanics that fits the setting...find a new line of work!! 8) Clashing storylines... Not everyone can be the "Best" or the "chosen one", the story is presented like it takes place in a vacuum, like it is unique...doesn't wor in this medium (a MMO). I don't know why I bother , none of this can be changed, MMORPGs will continue to made by Morons who don't understand basic storytelling never mind complex storytelling, Massive amounts of capital will be mismanaged on poorly planned projects and the genre that holds so much promise will eventualy fall out of favour due to gross incompetence....Great..Is there any market left for "Choose your own adventure" books?

SWG had some interesting elements BUT it also had horribly broken elements. SWG's biggest problem is they let the Game mechanics define the setting, which is fine with a generic sci-fi or fantasy setting. This doesn't work with a well established setting like Star Wars , which is the actual draw to the game. The only reason I picked up SWG was Star Wars..it was my first MMO..ironicly enough I picked up TOR ..wait for it...because it was supposed to be Star Wars...at this rate it will be my last MMO as the genre has collectivley jumped the shark . SWG was not some mythical land of Milk and honey, not Pre-Cu , or the CU or the NGE, they were all pretty crappy in the scheme of things and not close enough to the movies to get a Star Wars fan , who was not a gaming fan to become a gaming fan even for a Star Wars game.

OMG I have not laugh this loud in a long time..I could hardly breath during certain times...and I am not done... just wanted to thank the poster for posting this ling

I agree alot of the EU is just crap... Skywalker ranch needed a renovation

Top ten straman arguments made by people who love the game so much they are on the forums instead of playing it My title for your post doesn't roll off the tongue so much.. Take it from a software developer, software development is an imperfect process Ironicly enough you brought your "Argument of authority"..well 9 out of 10 software developers say.... Please if you are going to do a Pump and Dump ...do it right!

Nothing will kill this game...It has enough rabid fan-bois to carry it on until it's Free2Play and it's raised enough capital to satisfy it's investors...for now. Warhammer online is still around...even SWG lasted for years after it's mess... This game may have fallen short of it's full potential but it's "Viable".

they do show up if they target you, at least on mine

to be succinct...CRAP

The game and your defence of the same both have their root in a flawed premise. If I didn't like the story ..it's my fault?...Maybe the storyline was weak and/or corny and/or predictable , and/or childish. I am a longtime D+D player , since 1979, I have DMed many times, somtimes I got rave reveiws (even though I thought I did horribly) and other times I fell flat (even though I thought I had done great).... What I thought was irrelevent, it matters what the majority of the audience thought. If it fell flat it was MY fault for not understanding the audeince Games are entertainment..Game makers are Entertainers... They live and die in the subjective arts..You can be the greatest computer programer the world had ever seen , that doesn't mean the end product will be entertaining to the audience. MMORPGS require science and those who are science saavy to make but those same people lack the artistic flair to actualy make an entertaining game. It's the MMO paradox, those who can ,don't know how, but don't know that they don't know, so they try and fail.

@OP You realy don't "get" MMOs , so I am guessing you at least work in the industry, if not BW/EA directly. Mass story telling is very difficult, it becomes impossible when everyone wants to be "The Chosen One" . You cannot base a game on mass story telling of a personal nature. You can tell a meta story that everyone has a role (however small) in and let the player come up with the details of their story. BW style of story telling doesn't work in a mass enviroment. The allure of "Endgame" is the social aspect of the game.

They aren't even trying to compete with WoW, they just threw some garbage toegether and called it an MMO when it was actually a fraction of a single player game and some minigames. THEY knew we would buy it, and they KNEW they would get to keep the money. These companies aren't dummies..They have made their money, YOU will buy their games again, many of you will keep paying them money. Many of you with abused customer syndrome have and will continue to pay them AND defend their obvious duping of the gaming community. They have basicaly commited fraud not just against the Customer base but among their investors as well. Remeber these are the same guys who brought us the trainwreck of WAR another multi-million dollar boondoggle. Where did all the money go? I for one will never play WoW again , I deleted all my toons during Wrath, BUT I will say at least Blizzard makes a game in good faith and shows some level of "due diligence". EA and anyone remotly related to them are just out for a quick buck. I would bet good money their activities are borderline criminal and not just unethical.

LotoR was a good launch and so was DDO... guess launching is Turbines strong point

I did the same thing , no rule against it... he has the skill level to open them and he got there without hacks or exploits

I don't know, I think that using multiple platforms would be good for a game... not sure how much that would cost, if it would be cost effective/profitable...but i don't think it's a "stupid" idea.

The OP is right TOR is a Real MMO, just a real bad one, it is so horrible it will probably set back the genre for years. When a reputable company goes looking for capital to make a MMO, investors are going to look at WAR and now TOR and say NO way man!! It will be easier for Greece to get money than MMO makers!!

Tat ..I hate Tat...the first quest hub reminded me of Tat of SWG , with all it's clustered and abandoned player structures...it totaly lacked the vastness of Tatooine, another planet that felt small , like a single zone.

From tython on... as a sidenote , i had already surmised that this game was going to be WAR part duex a big ole trainwreck...but in a moment of self doubt, i said to my self.."Self, they are proffesionals they wouldn't put out that crappy of a product"...Boy was i wrong. Space (or lack of) , Datacrons, Companions(shut up KIRA!), class structure , MUSIC (how do you screw up that one), Small worlds and small galaxy (one or the other on launch would have been passable), Horrible storylines, Bad lore, Lame dialogues (Shut up faux-C3P0!), If I logged on I would remember more. The majority of people play a Star Wars game because they like the Star Wars Movies or at the very least for the Star Wars setting ,Build the game around the setting, dummies!!

I am a naysayer...I don't think the game is broken...I think it was poorly crafted...If it was loot it wouldn't even be grey.... If it was a car it would be that russian car (albeit a fully funtioning one)

Music and sound. This game hit a homerun for sure in this area. The game sounds amazing. This is patently false.. This was the first thing I noticed.