I am surprised no one has mention that we have infiltrate. Its pretty much a worthless skill. Maybe redesign this skill into something that we could actually use. P.S. I do not want a channel skill. We have no way of stopping an enemy from running away while we channel. It would hurt our mobility and we are not ranged or have a root long enough like the other classes mention.

Some of us are also vets. I have played warhammer, eq2, aion, rift, AOC, etc. I have 4 lvl 50's. Not all people are low lvl people ************. If anything i would argue its the opposite. Most of the community from what i have seen think they are very strong at low lvls and warn fresh 50's they are in for a treat. Its only till end game that they flaws are really shown. Energy management and rotation are perfect examples of this. In my experience in mmo's the leaders of the guild will ask you to spec heals (for operative) because it performs better, then they can bring a preferred dps with and they can still bring you. When entering new content they will bring their preferred setup to clear the content until its on farm. I cant tell you how many times i was asked to bard in rift for this reason and i hated barding. Which is why i am sort of surprised your point is "if you dont like it dont play it." Edit: thats like sayin its your $15 a month. So if you dont like it unsub. Well 1.5 million people did just that. We like our class, if not love it. We also see the downfalls that BW created in 1.2 and has never addressed. If anything they buffed marauders 3 times since then. Our rotation is still clunky, our energy system is horrible, and we are too reliant on stealth. So after a year of nothing but nerfs and neglect, watching BW tailor to the warrior class, the stupid bs stun lock crap BW pulled, and most of us do not want to heal. What do you expect the community to say? Thank you? Its ok we grabbed our ankles this whole time since we love are class even though its still under performing

I pvp, so here is my question in this game. Why take a class that pulls 200 dps or 10% less then the other classes? Especially ones that are ranged or hands down have better defensive cool downs. Yes, they pull the bare minimum which on a side note is a smaller gap between the minimum and a op then a dps class and an op as you were saying. So yeah, why take a class that makes it harder to complete the objective and spend more time? I dont think its about magical beans as much as how all classes relate to pvp and pve, Some are just not as good. Even by your numbers.

Thanks for the stream link. I enjoyed it very much. More so since it showed how others react to concealment. Shocked when they see or get jumped by them and annoyance (or being effective). It appears to me that stealth is the only thing that made their team effective though. They died more then they killed, didn't have much for objective points, and all but 1 had crap dmg (and that 1's dmg was ok). This makes me wonder two things: 1. If a team of assassins could be more effective since they could live longer and get to the objectives quicker. 2. If Infiltrate could be changed a little to be more effective. Since stealth was the only thing that kept them in that match.

Even, though they did add new gear it is only 1 stat better in some cases. I assume they are adding new ops (if they dont then whats the point in being 55 in raiding pve.) If they add new ops then there has to be new PVE gear. There is also lvl 63 PVE gear, so either they will nerf this gear or come out with a better set. Either way, the pvp will probably be treated similar.

The CC is not the problem. Any true pvper knows this. What are ops in stun locking 3rd? We are ok at burst and suck at sustained dps. So lets face the true problem. The problem is the devs have no intention of doing anything but nerfing DPS Operatives. The devs even made a feedback post to view what people thought of the class. It was an over all out cry from the community stating we need a fix to energy management, gap closer, and sustained dps. What did we get ... a crappy speed increase to sneak while out of stealth. The marauders mostly said they are either OP, balanced, or feared. So what did they get ... a buff to their 3rd tree making it the most OP spec since launch. So where to go from here. ***** slap any dev from BW that you meet. Play a healer, reroll, or just deal with the dps specs because you just enjoy it. The only hope dps ops have now is the expansion. Hopefully our new ability(or multiple) do not suck, we are put back into line, and they do not NERF us into sand that gets into a FOTM ******. EDIT : Yeah, AE genocide is accepted and BW is willing to let that alone while they killed our class since 1.2

Your post is kind of confusing. Maul is weapon damage, which means in most cases its energy damage (least looking at what your main hand weapon does, off hand can be kinetic.) This is where most people are confused since its a huge part on how you play your defensive skills. Like how force shroud makes you immune to tech and force aka the 4 second stuns but they are all energy damage, when ops evasion skill does not make them immune to anything according to your post. The only abilities that work on my op or pt when i fight against force shroud are the ones that say weapon damage (like rail shot or overloaded shot), and all the abilities that evasion works on are the ones that say weapon damage. So there is a difference somewhere.

I am a little confused by your post. TA and UH does not increase healing by 2% unless i am missing something. http://www.torhead.com/ability/fDMjEnr/tactical-advantage So are you saying that Healing Hand is not working correctly?

To use some of your post. Some of these people might actually be doing this because they do not have enough coms yet to twink out their alt in WH gear? Going out to pvp and have fun with an alt that is not ready to be 50. Then leaving the WZ. Which lights up different conversations that you should be allowed to spend your coms on lvl 50 gear before 50 or a quitters debuff (which is not right when you start in the middle of a fail wz.) Im not saying i would agree with dropping WZ's not to lvl, but there could be other reasons why this might be happening other then to get rid of blue ball epeens.

Thats not exactly true ... http://www.torhead.com/ability/2wUjOBv/duplicity Your argument should be on acid blade and assassins having duplicity. Not with back stab and maul. Edit: If your comparing just backstab and maul. Maul is alot better with no cooldown. 1.4 does not say anything about ignoring armor while giving a 30% dmg boost, but its not out yet.

Read the class feedback They did not listen. They have enough feedback to realize how the community feels. /unsubbed

In dps yes they are. Stop QQing marauders are fine and balanced. Sorcs are in the best spot of them all. Most people did not role a op or merc to heal. They rolled them for the dps.

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/21321-gamescom-2012-interview-with-gabe-amatangelo New WZ, yeah they stole the idea from warhammer ... go jeff hickman. Please let us know when you ep a third game. I want to keep my kittens safe.

That is not true at all. Just because you dont have the best class for it or even loose does not mean you dont have skill. Skill is shown on how people know their class, other classes, and how you react under these interactions.

1. balance 2. less CC 3. more 1 vs 1 (make people show their skill)

So your saying that your still in combat once you revive with a root or stun on you? That cant happen. BW says you should be totally out of combat after 8 seconds ... living that is. You would think skills would not last through death. But this is BW you never know whats going to work after they said they fixed it 3 months ago.

4 classes got nerfed since then. I wonder how marauders got so powerful. Edit: The question most have is ... we got nerfed so why didn't marauders when they can hit someone for 7.5k in one hit. Have 23 seconds of at least 20% damage reduction and have stealth. Same question goes for PT.

The problem is not the metrics (even though that could add to it.) The problem is their idea of what the classes and sub classes are meant for. Has anyone else noticed that all the classes that have a sub healing role suck in dps in pvp (not worth the spot for ranked). Yes, they can get metals but when you put them against the other dps classes or tank sub classes they are not worth bring with. The only exception is the assassin, but this is because they do not want deception assassins killing people out of stealth aka stunlocking ops and darkness hybrids are really strong. They want the FOTM classes to be were they are. They said some of the player base does not understand what they class is meant for. I say they do not understand their player base. We pay to be here. 1 million people left already and its only goin to get worse in a week. So who is the one that should adapt. Oh, they tried to communicate with the player base, but they are so bad at it all the player base did was troll them. Its a harsh world on the forums, but you can not say we are nerfing you because of a sorc crying. There is a resolve system in place (that doesnt work that well at all) to stop stunlocking. So that started the fire. Then they kept it going by stupid statements on how they think people that play the dps assassin wrong.

yay color

I see the potential as a burst of ~20k in a couple secs and i also see the downfall of living for 5 seconds. I do not see any more reward on being deception over being darkness. I only see downfall that you take more dmg, cant defend as well, less utility, and if your trying for the lone wolf dps concealment op eats them alive (thats a weak class too). Why would i want to make my life harder to perform the same outcome? For the challenge and everyone else to think i am a moron? If you want you can keep trying to convince yourself its fine and play something harder because it makes you feel good go ahead. It doesn't mean its effective. Personally, i wish the outcomes of fights came down to skill but that's not how BW rolls. I also wish there was 1 vs 1 fights which is where this class should shine, but those are very minimal. You obviously didnt understand what my point was. Maybe i didn't explain it right. Warhammer (Mythic) had this same exact argument and that game died with FOTM ****** balancing which is where this game is headed. It doesn't matter how effective something is. If your business has a product and 95% of the customers are not using it, that means something is wrong. To say the customer is the one at fault is bad business. Plain and simple. This is exactly what the dev did. The dev doesn't understand the perceived function of the class. The business should do something to make it more appealing or change the perception. It could be marketing of the spec. It doesn't need to be OP, but something needs to change. Even if it is something that gives the customer a feeling that they contributed in another way and not a buff.

I agree on not listening to the community. They should do their own research. The problem with that is since launch it seems like their testing is flawed. Look at the assassin and OPS in this case. These classes are the lone wolf classes they talked about. At launch i lvled a deception assassin since i want to be stealthy. Then i realized very quick they have no survivability with basically equal dps as the tank tree. So I lvled a concealment op. They got nerfed to hell literally every single patch. Both these game plays are suppose to be the same and they are both so underwhelming its not funny. So address your question what am i doing wrong. Nothing, i am playing the classes exactly how its suppose to be played. I stealth up to nodes when single defenders are there and take them. Oh wait most of the time its 2 defenders, well that doesnt work for a lone wolf. Well lets go to mid, heh there are 5 people there in a skirmish ... I should have brought a class that can take the aes since i am a lone wolf. Well my last option is to defend. Here comes 3 people. There goes my lone wolf again as the dev said i was. Its not that i cant make these situations work its their vision is not realistic. This is not counting on how they address their balancing reasons for stealth. They think since we have stealth and have the ability to make a hybrid our damage on our lone wolf should not be equal to non stealth classes. Look at VS, its basically not worth goin to and instead should go into darkness for more benefit. This isnt my fualt its a balance problem. Its not dumbing down to make VS more worth specing into ... its balance. Its bad design when i get more benefits from being a healer or tank then goin into my top skill points. The community has adjusted the since launch mainly playing darkness. In other words if 95% of the community plays a tank or healer spec when they want to dps. There is something wrong and the devs need to address it. It doesnt have to be a OP buff. Just something needs to change. How many concealment ops or deception assassins do you see in ranked? A couple maybe the whole time ranked has been out. Thats just bad balancing.

Its not game breaking. It is more defense they get against Maul (can have a 50% reduction), Assassinate, VS compared to Rail Shot. Heh, and that ignores basically all armor. Their bubble is more of a fight changer then armor, but each classes has their skills. There are obvious imbalances and there are also small flawed concept imbalances. More the reason i stated it.

Thank you for posting this sir. This is the best way i have seen this phrased yet. Lol, the other one i have a hard time explaining to people is how experiences sort of equals out (not soft caps) at 1200 +/-.

This debate about Darkness being better was started at launch and why hasn't been addressed yet? Its because the devs do not want to deal with people that die in seconds without seeing their target. Or its the counter to the classes they play. That is why they nerfed concealment to hell. Pyros have a stun lock of 6.5 secs which is the longest in game. They have best functioning burst in game of something like 18k in about 5-7 seconds (not goin to count marauders that can be interrupted.) All this damage negates armor. To top it off in heavy armor which relates to 6% mitigation per armor class jump. So again I would ask why do they nerf the **** out of concealment, never touch Deception since launch? They do not want you playing it. They want you to tank as they want ops to heal.

I love how the devs think this way. If whole community is doing it wrong and needs to l2p. That means they failed and need to do it right. Aka L2 balance.