Define hobby? Something someone does in their own time? Therefore someone who programs games and computers in their own time is a hobbiest? Surely? The computer games industry (not just PC games because other than to the gamers themselves its one big industry) was mainstream in the very very early 80's. The NES was released in 1983. I mean, heck, the industry was so big and mainstream in 1983 that there was actually a market crash in that year! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983 Sigh.

Good point. A fair number of the 'social' games, especially apps are done by one person. Minecraft is the exception that proves the rule (I love that saying... ) No evidence either way I would say here. However its a competative industry, if you went to an interview and they asked what you had done before, and your response was nothing, Im just out of college give me a job, then they will show you the door fast. However saying 'well in my own time I programmed this little game...... Erm, you are simply inventing names for things. there are PLENTY of non-mainstream entertainment that is still big business. Back in the 80's computers were becoming mainstream. That doesnt happen over night. I hate it when people do this. They play the 'big man' by saying 'lets agree to disagree' or 'we are both right and wrong lets leave it here' when their point has been proved wrong, and the other person is just left looking like a jerk. Well, I dont mind being a jerk, but I do mind not having everything correct.

The thing is, you are still missing the point. The person who coded the game was a hobbiest. Chances are every single on of the developers and artists and programmers on this game did it as a 'hobby' before becoming employed in the industry. Its that sort of job. What hasnt changed is the companies that maufacture the games. Sure back in 1983 it was a newish industry, but most of the publishers were big business back then, but in different sectors (eg sony). Im sorry, the only thing that has changed is the quality of the games and the fact that one person cant make a world beating game in his bedroom anymore.

Sorry thats utter nonsense. I just did a quick search for Lode Runner and low and behold it was made by a guy who submitted it to games companies who rejected it and he re-did it and resubmitted it and they published it and gave him a wad of money. It was a business back in 1983 and its still a business today.

What difference does that make? If they paid for the time in advance or later on, the company still gets the 2 months worth of money. I have never said this game will retain XXX subscribers, what I have said is that it is the best retention rate of any game. All those other games also had people with 2 month cards. Heck SOME of them had people buying lifetime subscriptions - they count as active subscribers FOREVER, talk about screwing with the stats. ITs a level playing field, all these things exist in all the mmos, thus are directly comparable.

Erm - thats completely ignoring all the facts tho. This game sold 2 million copys (fact) and retained 1.7 million (Fact) this is the highest ratio of any mmo, possibly ever, but definately in the last 5 years. WoW at best has 4-5 million SUBSCRIBERS. It also has 6-7 million NON SUBSCRIBERS - them being the eastern market which doesnt allow subscription gamers (entirely different model, pay to play over there). SWTOR losing 300K gamers after the first month is a much much smaller thing than WoW losing 300K subscribers in one month. One is better than expected, the other is completely unexpected.

Because they havent made a profit yet. Assume the development cost is $200 million (so many numbers flying around, so lets just settle on a middleish one). Assume from each box sold they get $30 (which is half the box price give or take). Sold 2 million copies: $60 Million Sold 1.7 million subs for 2 months: $51 Million They have only recouped $111 million, or about half the development cost (dont forget they have also had overheads for the last 2 months of actually running the game). IF they manage to maintain 1 million subs for the next 6 months they will break even and then start to make profit. However they are also having rolling area expansions in that time and additional subscribers (pacific region next) so based on that additional income they will break even some time around May.

I have to call utter total **** on this statement. If you have two characters for a total of 91 levels (50+41) then you have been levelling at roughly 1.5 levels a day since early access. Therefore you simply cannot log in 'every day or two' and do 'one level'. Its not rushing to be at 50 now. I have logged in every day or two as time allowed and done a level or two which is all time allows. Im a regular working person with a child and a wife and Im currently level 46. I didnt have early access time, didnt get the game till the 26th December and I missed a weekend as I was away. Otherwise I would be at 50 and just finished the class quests.

Sorry to jump on you here, but pretty much all of those things do happen. I'll admit there aren't any 'puzzle' quests, it's not particularly starwarsy anyway, but I have had 'guard' quests, either guarding a spot or a person. Also your choices DO make a difference, my choices in quests have clearly changed the outcome of quests later, the problem is without seeing what other people did its hard to always realise it. But the ones where it has been obvious for me is where I have completed one quest (saving a strike team) only to have that team turn up at the end of a later quest and help me with the boss. I've also had the oppertunity to kill numerous sith and passed over them for the lightside points, only for that sith to reappear and help me in a later boss fight, or send me items in the mail, one even turned up in a later Jedi council scene.

You are having a laugh aren't you? All you did was provide more description to the quest. So let's see: 1) kill something 2) go collect someone 3) find area and kill baddies there 4) collect something by talking or killing 5) pay someone 6) kill some people and collect someone 7) kill someone who isn't a boss 8) search around aimlessly for someone 9) find 1 thing 10) escape 11) talk to someone Out of all of those things only 2 of them don't turn up in swtor and ones irrelavent and the other I'm so grateful for. I've never once paid credits in a quest, but that might happen in other classes and I've never searched around aimlessly for something, the game always tells you roughly where it is. I don't understand how anyone can possibly claim swtor has boring quests and other mmos are interresting when they are all the same! Even single player games are near identical, but sometimes have a puzzle element as well.

The thing is, apparently this game has sold more copies than any western MMO at launch. The reason why WOW didnt have enough copies is that there was no precedent for their being such a huge demand for the game. Now they dont even have to produce all the copies, a large proportion are sold as digital downloads.

Sigh... So your complaint is that it doesnt feel starwarsy enough compared to the original 3 films, before they were updated. Despite the fact that they are set 3000+ years after this game is set and there is starwars material already existing which describes this time period. We really cant possibly win, in the same thread there are people complaining that its ridiculous that stuff hasnt changed and why is all the same as stuff 3000 years in the future, and you have people complaining it doesnt feel enough like starwars, or in fact a version of starwars that doesnt actually exist anymore...

Really? Ok. As I said above let's examine that statement logically shall we. Let's create a hypothetical mmo which has that 'star wars feel' exactly as you want. Absolutely 100% perfect, couldn't be bettered in any way. And now we give it a hello kitty skin. So, what's more important, the look and background and detail, or none of that but you get the 'feel' right.

Ever heard of technological stagnation? Which came first: http://www.crystalinks.com/gpgoodshot.jpg http://i-cias.com/egypt/photos/saqqara_pepi2_01.jpg

Don't mean to be funny, and I don't necessarily disagree with you. But the only numbers we have are that there are 1.7 million subscribers and we lost 300k from launch.

It's not about 'someones' pc, it's the servers that wouldn't be able to handle it. Just read up on the ridiculous engine they use and how it handles people on screen. Add in 40-50 npcs in all areas of cities and more than 5 people in an instance would blow up the server (exaggeration obviously).

So a game with all the starwars 'skin' and background and important elements feels less like starwars than another random mmo if that mmo had non static worlds? Seriously read what you are asking for, it's utterly contradictory!

There aren't enough people wandering around aimlessly in cities, eating up my frame rates, making the game laggy. Yes, that means it doesn't feel like starwars...

How on earth do you feel that Tatooine doesn't look/feel like Tatooine in the films? They copied everything.

So in fact your complaint is with game play not the fact it's not star wars...

Force - check Light side/dark side - check Droids - check Star destroyers - check Sith - check Bounty hunters - check Blasters - check Wookies - check Hutts - check I've gotten bored of saying check, but you get my drift. What the heck were you looking for?

I'm sorry, that's just griefing people. How is that remotely 'sporting'. If you don't know or don't understand you die and are humiliated. It's like a playground bully who walks up and demands you give him your lunch money or he would beat you up. At least if he beat you up and TOOK your money you wouldn't have been humiliated first.

This is so true. That is till you get doc, then you stop thinking about interupts until a boss Comes along and you really need them and you get spanked again. Ive stopped using doc again for this very reason, I need to relearn to play, but not in easy mid this time!

Why do people have two accounts? You get 8 character slots, how is that not enough? But to the op, my renewal aint till the 26th, but its already set up for Direct debit payment and isnt likely to go anywhere soon! Well it might do, I might actually get off my backside and switch it to a 3 monthly one and save myself some cash!

People have, and guess what, the op has posted once and run off. Sure sign that is...