i agree with the OP, I also agree that the hardcore pvp playerbase is the most unloyal flakey group in MMOs ever. That said TOR is a bad game when it comes to pvp. Rift pvp was superior to TOR pvp and that game couldn't keep the hardcore pvpers. Heck part of the issue is the hardcore pvpers are divided on what they want. A chunk of them just want to do rated esport arenas all day. Then another chunk wants RVR type setting they had in daoc. So since TOR hasn't delivered on either along with having the pvp options probably in the argument as the worst pvp in an mmo ever i can understand the ************. The thing is there would be ************ regardless of what BW did its just imo in this case the ************ and quitting is justified.

When did i say those were the reasons you are casual? Did you just make that up? Great logic there. Its like telling a fat person they are fat and they respond with. So apparently im fat because i like to play donate my time to charity and helping poor kids read. Liking to pvp and wanting to win has nothing to do with you being called casual.. You didn't answer my real question. Where is this fun pvp in this game that the people doing warfronts and dailies are missing out on? Because i am willing to bet that someone almost R70 with full Bm gear has done wayyy more pvp than you have since BW has made the only pvp in this game the gear grind. I am not defending people who just bypass everything to grind rank im griping about this game basically only having the gear grind. People dont want to grind gear but will if it is the only option.

huttball as a concept is great. I think the pit is not very good and when it goes rated people will see how poorly designed it really is. They need to design a signature huttball map that is made after they see how huttball works in a rated environment. Along with some rule ability changes when in the game.

all servers but a handful can barely field enough players in queue to get a game. A matchmaking would basically make it the same 8 vs 8 all day. The fact of pvp is there is an unknown element and a risk. Sadly the only risk in pvp is your ego and your time. When you queue up in order to get those ~100 badges you risk spending 15 min of your life possibly getting destroyed and losing. Sadly when will be people realize that everyone can't win. Half the players in each game do in fact have to lose. You are not a special snowflake you will lose and you will lose when you play bettergeared more experienced players more than winning. And sadly this no penalty for quitting is making you get rolled more often and worse.

to be fair what pvp fun? Casual pvpers always say that. But seriously there is no pvp for the sake of pvp anymore and especially in this game. You seem to be eluding to some form of mystic pvp that you miss out on by grinding rank. What is it? Where is it? The complaint is that bw has nothing and even when the gear grind is over there is nothing. Its so obvious who the non 50 pvpers are. If Ilum was at least an average pvp zone for people who get gear to run around and pvp in there would be so many less complaints.

BW's design is just doing a bad job copying wow. End game PVP is just doing the same 3-4 terribly designed warfronts but rated. It seems like all other things" ilum/worldpvp/warfronts are just a grind to do more warfronts. Imo which will be a giant load of fail. Wow barely made it work and they argubly have some of the best battlegrounds in the history of MMOing. Huttball will be all composition, Alderaan will be whoever caps first. Voidstar is a joke. Will see how the new warzone is but it obvious bioware can't even copy working designs properly.

i do think though that the gear grind needs to be relooked at. There needs to be a gear grind but that can't be the "point" of pvp. Even people who are die hard pvpers for the pvp will get sucked into the gear grind and do what is most economical. Best bet would be to eliminate the dailies being the main source for bags. There needs to be another mechanic added to reward players. All pvp dailies do is make it so people gimmick the easiest way to get the daily done then stop and when you make dailies for owpvp all you get is everyone out there whoring it up to get daily done and thus ruining the pvp experience. Imo there needs a risk vs reward to getting the bags. Imo the rank grind is semi fine. Make Ilum more friendly for 4-8 person groups and penalize the zergs in rewards and add some type of tracking of overall pvp contribution for the day to net that person a reward. A mix between Aion and Daoc's point system would be the best to actually encourage pvp for the sake of pvp and not just daily farming then going back to the main city.

lol need to be carried much? I just boycott Voidstar. Mainly because that warzone sucks and refuse to play it.

lol wait so are people saying now BW is catering to the minority of players by making it so you have to win to finish a daily? Wow what a sad state the MMO world is in now. Those words would not have been spoken 10 years ago. I also think that i should get PVE gear for not actually killing the boss i should just get it by showing up. PVP gear is already given to participation only no idea why people need to more free. I almost want the best gear to be given away now in a rated warfront/arena system now just so all these kids who want crap for free get locked out and maybe learn a lesson

it does, there is more to skill than just mashing buttons. Being a fresh 50 means you shouldn't keep playing like you played in 10-49. Also skill will mean more in another month when most of the 50s have pvp gear.

I was thinking about this the other day. It seems like companies that make MMO's recruit devs from failed mmos to work on their game. Rift did it, Tor did it. a few others between have. I know having an impressive resume is important to landing any high profile dev job in the mmo world but it seems like most titles are recycling the same people who have failed elsewhere. Imo what the mmo industry needs is new blood of designers with new ideas. Sadly most of those people will never get a break in the exclusive snob world that is game developing but it would be interested if a big company would build a team around new people and ideas and take that chance to go truly next gen.

i assume slows will get a dr eventually. Once pvp goes rated a lot of the flaws in this game will come out when you have top organized talent vs eachother As for stuns they work fine with resolve you cannot be indef locked. Now the issue of a pvp cc break and immunity for 3-4 seconds imo is a good idea. The main issue with you always feeling stunned is every class has 2+ ways of stuning you in some form so it just is too much time spent cc'd then you run resolve then you are cc'd again. It gives the average player the impression they are always cc'd because basically everyone has a stun in their normal rotation.

yup there needs to be some redesign to make it so the point of the map isn't to whore and zerg fest up the map. needs some design to make there a point to be in more than one place. Also pvp huge rewards for kill quests never work for OPVP. All it encourages is zerg farming then just being done once you get your kills. There just needs to be things to do and reasons to be in the zone and pvping and not just zerging trying to add up kills.

Yeah it is pretty funny how the not enough players gives the win to the team that has more players...(since most of the time they have more objectives) Aborted game should end in a tie

unranked huttball should just end at 3-4 scores forget buffs debuffs just have the game not be the full 15 min if the other team just destroys you / vice versa.

did you right click queue or open the menu? I noticed my daily rarely gets completed if i just right click queue. but i have never had a wz win not register when i opened the warzone and queued using the button. It probably is just coincidence though

So much misinformation in this thread.. No wonder so many people get all riled up half of the community doesn't even have the right facts.

If BW did this the next post the OP would make would be crying about people leaving the warzone then no one else joining it since no one would join a warzone in progress if they knew it was in progress. The main issue is the fact there is no penalty for leaving so there are way more instances of warzones being short players. If you make it so people dont leave you have less games in progress that need players and thus the OP's tears will mostly go away.

IMO anyone who can grind to 60+ in this, one of the worst instances of pvp ever in an mmo, deserves a little love. If you got R60+ by grinding the three worst battlegrounds ever in an MMO along with the worst OWPVP ever in an mmo then you imo deserve more than the gear already in game. Where most people run to the forums and cry, rage quit, emo quit, quit, cry, you powered through it. /salute

OP forgot that since crit is RNG and not skill based real pvpers only play with 0 crit rate. OP also forgot that MMOs are a contest of who can sit in front of their computer the longest and nothing more.

I dont see marauders are gimped i think ToR would be a better place if other classes had similar design philosophy (ie not given every single thing in the game) Imo there needs to be less specs/classes that heal, less knockdowns/knockbacks/less shields etc. If marauders played in a world that wasn't all classes that have everything they would be one of the better classes and imo even despite that they still are really good with a geared skilled player.

they need to stop starting voidstar period. That map is awful

Its a fun idea but i can't see it working in ToR atm in unranked games. low pop servers + lack of competitive premades + a lot of pugs trying to do dailies = lots of QQ. If this game had hundreds of people per server queueing for warzones it may work but the population just is not there to dilute a full premade farming people.

OH EEEE OHH TEEEEBOW lol so my huttball team calls it Tebow when someone just throws a pass that misses by miles, such a bad throw it can't even be intercepted.

everyone basically having a knockback is pretty lame too.. I mean stuns are fine resolve works fine for them.. Roots/slows need to be on some type of a dr. Knockbacks need to basically go away or be a niche spec'd ability. Having everyone have a knockback baseline is a huge mistake and makes you feel even more stunned since for the most part between stuns knockbacks and slows resolve is worn off by the time you get any time on target.