I read it... I didn't see any "defining moments" that made him who he is, or what he is. I got a lot of "Meh" out of it. However, the first rule of good characters is it takes some time to care about them. So maybe his time is coming.

Did Malgus kill his own father?

How is it rehashed? And, fast-forward to TOR's first expansion... what would it need to be to qualify as "not rehashed" for you?

You know what I think would help this thread... if someone that wasn't a fanboy of one game or the other was participating!

I think the skill revamp is one of the most brilliant an un-heralded moves they made. It may appear to offer less flexibility or choice, but in reality it offers more true choice... you can now be a rogue and have some abilities that before you would have had to sacrifice due to damage maximization. But now you can have your cake and eat it too! And mostly I like that they did it since, Blizzard basically created the "talent tree" concept in RPGs with Diablo and are now the first ones to throw it out. That's the type of innovation I want to see even if it doesn't always work out for the best - don't be afraid to try things. I almost cringed when we learned that TOR's talent trees were... exact copies of WoW's with 3 specs and everything. Just as Blizzard was tossing them out.

Like I said before... WoW can lose 8 or 9 million more subscriptions and still have more than TOR. and I honestly believe by the time that happens, TOR will be no more (along with many other MMOs) But, different people like different things. The advantage in liking to play WoW is that you know there is a helluva lot of resources and effort that can and is being invested in it, as opposed to scratching content plans due to not hitting certain sub numbers, etc (not that I'm saying TOR has done that obviously.) The more players, the more payers. The more payers, the more game you get.

I guess my point was gearing them up is unnecessary, given their end-game usage. So if you gear them, it's a waste for end game... and if you don't gear them, it's wasted effort that went into the system allowing them to be geared in that way. For me? I'd much rather form a party with other real players, go out into the world on a gathering/treasure hunting adventure than to do so with an NPC companion (or worse, sit on my ship and send them from there!)

How does all of that gear up equipped and upgraded them with for 50 levels work out for you in this case?

100% true.

I don't think I've ever defended them to be quite honest. Maybe you have me confused with someone else. There is no harder working group of developers out there that want nothing more to make an awesome game. The path to getting there though hasn't been as smooth as I had hoped and expected.

The story and lore of the Lich King and how he came to be was much more epic than that of Malgus... if he even has a story.

Sure you can go out there (but you can't craft of course). Do you? And, is that your end game activity? Gathering for months until a patch or expansion? Affection is an extremely minute adjustment, to the tune of 1% or so effectiveness in their abilities. Hardly worth the time and coin spent. Not to mention across all of your companions. That's known as an un-fun grind. Oh, and were's the story in that?

Yea, and I don't absolve Blizzard of blame here - they seem to facilitate that kind of gameplay while forsaking the good stuff (story, lore) that had a lot of effort put into it.

That's end game content? You're upping your companion affection for what reason again? You're gathering by staying on your ship or the cantina? Got it.

It's done differently. Not better. Stop saying "better" because it's subjective. For me, storytelling is "worse" in TOR because it breaks immersion, leaves no room for imagination, and slows the gameplay down. And I'd go so far as to say that the tales themselves aren't as epic. The Lich King vs. Darth Malgus? Not even close.

Companions are completely unavailable to you in all forms of end game, except open world PvP.

Sub to TOR has long been cancelled... still posting though.

And who's fault is that? The players. There was a all kinds of stories that tied zones together, recurring NPCs, etc. If you bothered to pay attention. TOR lacks immersion completely. How can you be immersed when you're constantly jarred from cut scene (pause mode) to battle? The whole experience gets entirely in the way of immersion.

You can't have a lockout in PvP, but you could have a points cap.

There are objective measurements you can use: - sloppy and loose combat vs. tight and responsive - large areas of silence vs. ambient music that persists throughout - lack of social and multiplayer systems and tools vs. the exact opposite of that - etc.

And which goes to show there are VERY different players out there. I couldn't possibly ever imagining leveling another toon (in either game.) I prefer to level and advance on character, always (the heart of what an RPG is.) There was story and immersion in WoW as much or more so than TOR, except TOR has digital actors read the dialog to you... that certainly does not improve my gameplay, as a matter of fact it breaks immersion because it's not "me" talking and leaves nothing to my imagination. I'd much rather read the highlights of my goals and then fill in the blanks through adventure.

To the people that like him? Absolutely. It's un-quantifiable. Which is why I said it doesn't happen every time. But it happened in the case of WoW. The best product got the most customers.

Oh, I'm not saying that just because the masses flock to something it's the best... hell, Windows is living proof that that theory is a joke. But I do think it is the case sometimes, and consumers got it right with WoW. The most are playing the best.

Median != Average

I just want to be clear, are you here to defend TOR or bash WoW?