Ituhata Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 LOL dude, I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online, I have seen many come and go, mostly go because they thought they could bring in a "New type of player." Sorry man but the people this game is attracting that want a huge deal on story are the console kings who want a single player RPG like Skyrim and KOTOR NOT an MMO. So this is what I see happening, people come here to get their story fix and leave because there is NO MORE STORY until KOTOR 4 errrr I mean an expansion. SO no content patches, eh? Is that not like saying a few dungeons get released to feed the MMO raiders hunger, and as what happens all the time, the content becomes stale within a matter of months, 2-3 at best, and they have to wait until the next big patch down the road for new content? I never see these people leaving, they whine about it and then run the same thing over and over while they wait for something new. I don't see why the same can't be said for story content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshaye Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 And you'll note that I didn't play LoTRO at release. Or for years after. Because it was theme-park. And no, it was not nearly as successful as you claim. It was limited by its own lore-- 1 faction, no caster classes at release, no PvP because it "didn't make sense" according to the devs. These things all killed LoTRO until it was eventually forced to go F2P. But you would rather argue that going F2P wasn't a sign of failure. There's your perspective, honey. I don't argue I know it. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunryu Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 SO no content patches, eh? Is that not like saying a few dungeons get released to feed the MMO raiders hunger, and as what happens all the time, the content becomes stale within a matter of months, 2-3 at best, and they have to wait until the next big patch down the road for new content? I never see these people leaving, they whine about it and then run the same thing over and over while they wait for something new. I don't see why the same can't be said for story content. New dungeons and raids is NOT the same as story content while you level, and for you to NOT think this is just a single player game with co-op mode thrown in as an after thought is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samy_Merchi Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 They spent $150 million making a game that, to this point, hasn't sold 2 million units. So, no, they are not to this point succeeding at the "making money" part of the equation. Don't kid yourself. 1.5 million units times $50 is already half their development costs. The other half will be covered by 1 million subs for 5 months, or 100,000 people sticking around for four years, or any combination thereof. SWTOR is *easily* going to have 100k players from now to 2015. They won't have any problems making back their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunryu Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Don't kid yourself. 1.5 million units times $50 is already half their development costs. The other half will be covered by 1 million subs for 5 months, or 100,000 people sticking around for four years, or any combination thereof. SWTOR is *easily* going to have 100k players from now to 2015. They won't have any problems making back their money. That's what Aion, AoC, and SWG thought too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 To causal players, which are most MMO players, no it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katnap Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I've been playing LOTRO since before launch and still do. Truthfully, that was a much smoother launch and it sure was more geared toward RP than ToR is now. I admit, the devs said they were surprised that people were so adamant about getting theri "fluff." But that's what happens when you have a game that's so heavily based on a beloved and existing story and yes will be limited. That doesn't make it a bad game.. I'm not knocking ToR, I find it a pleasant game and I hope BW continues to add more content, including fluff. And yes, to me story is very important in a game. My first MMO was Asheron's Call, a game that's still creaking along and had a great story line and for years had montly updates to that story. So I guess I carry that nostalgia with me. And I am also a casual player, so that refutes any statement other may say. I can only speak for myself when I say it's important. Nobody else can do more. Everyone wants something different from a game and we're all going to get something different out of it. Edited January 2, 2012 by Katnap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ituhata Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 New dungeons and raids is NOT the same as story content while you level, and for you to NOT think this is just a single player game with co-op mode thrown in as an after thought is insane. I know, i know. I haven't run all the flashpoints, nor have I run all the heroic 4 mans that are a throwback to BC dungeons. I haven't downed some silly snow lizard with 16 other people today, I've just been soloing and hitting the multiplayer lobby up for a team deathmatch. Story content is not the same, sir, I agree. But I think Bioware is capable of patching in enough content to appeal to those of us who like it. There are what, 8 different story arch to do? If they added one "episode" for each class every now and then thats plenty of play time until the next one. And lets not forget the flashpoints and heroic 4 mans, those are basically your dungeons, and they can add those in with story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowfatto Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Sorry but this post is extremely absurd. This game has been advertised for years as being heavily engrossed in story. For all the blissfully ignorant folks out there that are surprised by this, that's what BW has been doing since it started. this has been known for years. This game wouldn't even exist without KOTOR, and I can tell you every person that has played that game has been looking forward to this game and the story within it, as has every star wars fan. If this game didn't have that much story, or say was comparable to WoW's, just text based missions go kill someone that's it, go turn in, it would be terribly boring and wouldn't have been received well, especially as a BW game. Saying only that a few want story in this game is beyond the realm of absurdity because most enjoy it because they know that's what they'd be buying. For the ignoramus folks who did no research on this game, or they did and knew it would be story based and now complain, sorry go play something else if you don't like it you knew what it was going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 They're succeeding at both. I can and will say both of those. If being more WoW-like would get them that much subscribers, then how come they aren't doing it? This is why the game will succeed. Because it's written for all the people who were waiting for something different in MMOs. This is nothing like WoW-clones to me. The cutscenes are 90% of the game to me - they're a VAST difference. It's like comparing LOTRO with Sims to me. The change is gargantuan. If this game is like anything, it's like previous Bioware singleplayer games. This is SO MUCH CLOSER to them than it is to anything even remotely like WoW. This is basically KOTOR with a few MMO-style features piggy-backed onto it. You are playing the mother of all Bioware games. They just did. And guess what? It's playing just fine without any problems. I haven't even missed any of those. Don't kid yourself. If this really is a single player game with multi-player elements then its not sustainable as an MMO and so I cant see it having a very glorious future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Don't kid yourself. 1.5 million units times $50 is already half their development costs. The other half will be covered by 1 million subs for 5 months, or 100,000 people sticking around for four years, or any combination thereof. SWTOR is *easily* going to have 100k players from now to 2015. They won't have any problems making back their money. They don't keep 100% of the sale price of the game. They lose 30% to the retailer and 35% to Lucas. Don't kid yourself. TOR has to sell a ****-ton of units AND subscriptions to go into the black on this game. 100k people sticking around for 4 years, as you say, doesn't pay the bills because the thing you're not factoring in is that it costs millions of dollars a year just to keep an MMO running. Or did you think developers don't pay for bandwidth, servers, salaries and benefits of CSR's and developers working on future content, taxes, fees to credit card companies, etc. Those 100K subscribers barely finance paying the bills, and you can't offset the cost of developing a game until you've paid your overhead. Put it this way-- it likely takes around 400 or 500 subscribers paying for an entire year, just to pay Stephen Reid's salary and benefits. And he's 1 guy. How many are working to maintain the game? And personnel is generally 25% to 30% of the actual cost of running almost any business. Edited January 2, 2012 by Mannic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowfatto Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I've spaced bar 90% of the voice acting since level 20 or so. Whoever made these decisions at BW is a idiot. End game players don't care about story. It's been known for years this game would be heavily engrossed in story. Sounds like you are the ***** for buying something, knowing what it was then whining about it. End game players, this game was designed to be fun lvling, not put you into a coma while doing it, like WoW, War etc. If you like end game so much make your own mmo, have no lvling and you start at endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samy_Merchi Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Don't kid yourself. If this really is a single player game with multi-player elements then its not sustainable as an MMO and so I cant see it having a very glorious future.I can, and I'm happy for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) To answer the thread question: Yes! Its what i most wanted in an MMO, and after playing this and watching the upcoming GW2 (also has a personal story) i dont think anyone else can go back to the old ways of MMO's. Edited January 2, 2012 by Nemmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowfatto Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 That's what Aion, AoC, and SWG thought too. Hmm, yeah, and I've enjoyed this immensely compared to this terrible games. AoC was garbage when it launched nothing after lvl 20. Aion a joke, SWG went down the tubes. Your comparing garbage to gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Sorry but this post is extremely absurd. This game has been advertised for years as being heavily engrossed in story. For all the blissfully ignorant folks out there that are surprised by this, that's what BW has been doing since it started. this has been known for years. This game wouldn't even exist without KOTOR, and I can tell you every person that has played that game has been looking forward to this game and the story within it, as has every star wars fan. If this game didn't have that much story, or say was comparable to WoW's, just text based missions go kill someone that's it, go turn in, it would be terribly boring and wouldn't have been received well, especially as a BW game. Saying only that a few want story in this game is beyond the realm of absurdity because most enjoy it because they know that's what they'd be buying. For the ignoramus folks who did no research on this game, or they did and knew it would be story based and now complain, sorry go play something else if you don't like it you knew what it was going to be. This is less of a thread complaining because we've wasted our money and more a thread about what we think is wrong with the game and needs improving. I would happily pay a sub to play this game but I think it needs to align itself more to the MMO market. You can't just say we are wrong because 'we should have researched more'. I read into this game a lot before I bought it and followed forums for months. I'm here making this thread in hope that the problems I've personally found can be solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 I can, and I'm happy for it. Then clearly I can't say anything to change your mind. If you want to kid yourself this game is what you hoped it would be. Go ahead. Good luck. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowfatto Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Don't kid yourself. If this really is a single player game with multi-player elements then its not sustainable as an MMO and so I cant see it having a very glorious future. Right, as opposed to WoW where people sit around all day waiting for groups and queues, and where it is amazingly easy to cap lvl solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheld Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Its the story that makes this MMO unique & not another shoddy WoW clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Right, as opposed to WoW where people sit around all day waiting for groups and queues, and where it is amazingly easy to cap lvl solo. What do you think you will be doing when you reach max level in TOR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Well, let's see...........that cesspool with which you speak makes up a HUGE portion of the MMO market so............yeah. Actually they are a very SMALL portion of the MMO market. Thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samy_Merchi Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Then clearly I can't say anything to change your mind. If you want to kid yourself this game is what you hoped it would be. Go ahead. Good luck. Have fun.Thanks! I'm loving it and this is exactly what I've asked for on previous MMO forums. On them I've waged a similar crusade as you are here, except I was asking for more cutscenes, more voice acting, more immersive story. Now that a game like that is finally here I'm in seventh heaven. This is a dream come true. I hope you have as much fun in one of the WoW-style MMOs as I do here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunryu Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Right, as opposed to WoW where people sit around all day waiting for groups and queues, and where it is amazingly easy to cap lvl solo. Are you saying it's difficult to cap level solo in this game? The only reason it takes some people longer to cap level is that everything is done with a cut scene. Thanks! I'm loving it and this is exactly what I've asked for on previous MMO forums. On them I've waged a similar crusade as you are here, except I was asking for more cutscenes, more voice acting, more immersive story. Now that a game like that is finally here I'm in seventh heaven. This is a dream come true. I hope you have as much fun in one of the WoW-style MMOs as I do here!![/Quote] So they could have just charged you 15 a month to play a single player game and called it KOTOR 3? Because that's what you just said you wanted. Edited January 2, 2012 by Gunryu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samy_Merchi Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 What do you think you will be doing when you reach max level in TOR? Same thing I've done on every other MMO - rolled a new alt and gone through the story again. Only difference is, here it's going to be a LOT more fun!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Thanks! I'm loving it and this is exactly what I've asked for on previous MMO forums. On them I've waged a similar crusade as you are here, except I was asking for more cutscenes, more voice acting, more immersive story. Now that a game like that is finally here I'm in seventh heaven. This is a dream come true. I hope you have as much fun in one of the WoW-style MMOs as I do here!! Well. They do say ignorance is bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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