Possible Imbalance with Healers in PvP?

[LimitPrime]

Ok. So, I've been a 50 for about a week now and wanted to give it time before I made this post. But, it's become quite evident to me at this point that healer classes have a much higher ratio of healing vs energy cost (and output) than dps classes and damage vs energy cost (and output). I'm sorry that I don't have any hard evidence of this, other than anecdotal, due mainly to the fact that there are no combat logs readily available (to my knowledge). However, I've played well into 150+ warzones at this point. I am rank 43 valor and I've noticed that there are 3 possible scenarios with team composition, as far as healing goes:

 

0-1 Healers: Not enough healing & too much DPS, but if the other team also has the same composition, teams are equal.

 

2 Healers: Perfect healing to DPS ratio. One healer can easily keep up 3 teammates with an unfocused enemy, that is... an enemy that is uncoordinated and not attacking the same target.

 

3+ Healers: Too much healing, not enough DPS. This scenario is bad because although the 3 healers can normally keep each other up and the rest of the team, there is normally not enough DPS out of the remaining 5 players to kill anyone unless they are ALL focused on the same target (which is really difficult with 4 man queues and dare I say impossible with PUGs).

 

My issue with healing is in the scenario with 2 healers. My team was focusing on healers and switching targets from the one to the other and could not focus either down, because of the combination of the tank guard skill + force armor + the fact that the healer being focused, as well as the healer not being focused were healing whichever target our team chose to attack. We were fairly coordinated in focusing a specific player, yet at least 4 DPS players were not able to kill one person, whilst all the enemy team's DPS players focused us down. We had only 1 healer, so they had an easy time taking us down one by one. Is this system as intended, or is there an issue with the amount of healing vs cost vs cooldown in this game?

 

It's not very gratifying if 2 players on the other team can keep their team up, no matter what the other team does. I'm sorry for the rant and the QQ, but I've seen this in roughly 10 or so games that I've played, and it's becoming quite clear that it's the "I win" button in this game.

 

-PTL

[Imariel]

CC, interrupt, knockbacks.

 

Or alternatively learnt to actually deal damage.

[Rizzit]

I dont have any problems killing Healers i just need some time until his survival skills are CD

i'm a hybrid Assa 22/19/0 got 6 healing interuppts. Just start normal burst on them, wait til

they pop their **** out, build your stacks, prepare procs, and then unload everything kkthxbye.

[LimitPrime]

CC, interrupt, knockbacks.

 

Or alternatively learnt to actually deal damage.

 

 

Me and a guy I was queuing with were using interrupts on the same person. And I did 370k dmg that game of voidstar. I play a mixed template Sage DPS build. It was not an issue with understanding game mechanics.

 

-PTL

[Rizzit]

Me and a guy I was queuing with were using interrupts on the same person. And I did 370k dmg that game of voidstar. I play a mixed template Sage DPS build. It was not an issue with understanding game mechanics.

 

-PTL

 

Impossible... Our Premade never problems with healers even 3-4 healers Aldereaan mid,

CC 1, CC2, Focus one, should be dead before he stands back up. So or your not timing

the stuns with your friend or the healer was hacking the game....

[LimitPrime]

Impossible... Our Premade never problems with healers even 3-4 healers Aldereaan mid,

CC 1, CC2, Focus one, should be dead before he stands back up. So or your not timing

the stuns with your friend or the healer was hacking the game....

 

Like I said, I don't have combat logs to present, because they aren't accessible. However, I assure you that we were chaining interrupts. We would get him down to 1/5 hp but the other healer would save him or the juggernauts would re-guard or they would get a new shield from the inquisitors. The other team had a pre-made where 2 of the people were the healers in question, so I know they were organized. I don't know know what else to say without the logs or without other people sharing the same experience.

 

-PTL

[LimitPrime]

Impossible... Our Premade never problems with healers even 3-4 healers Aldereaan mid,

CC 1, CC2, Focus one, should be dead before he stands back up. So or your not timing

the stuns with your friend or the healer was hacking the game....

 

Also, I'd like to ask were they 3-4 level 50 healers? That I would say is impossible..

 

It's all about the amount of abilities, not the amount of healers. And my issue stems from the efficiency of healing based on the energy cost and cooldowns.

 

-PTL

[Rabbican]

Ok. So, I've been a 50 for about a week now and wanted to give it time before I made this post. But, it's become quite evident to me at this point that healer classes have a much higher ratio of healing vs energy cost (and output) than dps classes and damage vs energy cost (and output). I'm sorry that I don't have any hard evidence of this, other than anecdotal, due mainly to the fact that there are no combat logs readily available (to my knowledge). However, I've played well into 150+ warzones at this point. I am rank 43 valor and I've noticed that there are 3 possible scenarios with team composition, as far as healing goes:

 

0-1 Healers: Not enough healing & too much DPS, but if the other team also has the same composition, teams are equal.

 

2 Healers: Perfect healing to DPS ratio. One healer can easily keep up 3 teammates with an unfocused enemy, that is... an enemy that is uncoordinated and not attacking the same target.

 

3+ Healers: Too much healing, not enough DPS. This scenario is bad because although the 3 healers can normally keep each other up and the rest of the team, there is normally not enough DPS out of the remaining 5 players to kill anyone unless they are ALL focused on the same target (which is really difficult with 4 man queues and dare I say impossible with PUGs).

 

-PTL

 

Depends on the warzone and how geared your dps is. Operatives/scoundrels can 1-2 can assist train wreck most anything just because their burst is so high. Likewise grav/round tracer missile spammers are usually sure to kill their target after the debuff hits a 5 stack, if their target doesn't los them. Pure specced healers typically have no dps synergy or regen while they use their dps attacks.

 

So it boils down to this... Voidstar: 3+ healers on your side you typically won't have the dps to cap doors before they reinforce (very much weighted on your dps and pug/team tactics, whether you can lead away, cc etc..)

 

Alderaan: If you can get to the points fast enough having many healers can turtle point all day and never lose.... but by the same token if they cap 2 first... you won't have the dps to cap before they reinforce (unless they are stupid and are led away from cap etc..)

 

Huttball: 3+ healers can be very beneficial only if you can get ball first / control every flip (takes alot of coordination), but if your coordination is lacking to the other team and they control the ball spawn you typically won't have dps to snag ball back

 

^ All this is assuming they have 1-2 healers

 

I agree with your assessment that having 2 healers and x other is best setup. 2 healer + 2 tank premades usually have a devastating effect on WZ.

 

The fact is I've lost a game of voidstar where we had 3 full specced healers and no one died, our pug dps wasn't very good so they couldn't assist train, do enough burst, etc... to take counter the other teams 2 healers.

[MasterRequiem]

Interrupt their heals and coordinate with your team mates. Or come onto the forums and moan about it.

[Rizzit]

if we play against premades we focus the dps out first then the tank then the healer.

Reason: the only danger for us is the DPS as nor the healer nor the tank will inflict damage

to us, the Healer will most likely allways have guard on him, so I call out the dps, stun the

healer (1 off us interuppts him til dps dead) watch for guard pops, if guard pops, refocus

on healer if not, dps = dead.

 

Good Premades will alwas make you look like crap. But it's not a general Healer issue

it's more like a Team combination issue. if guard is not up i 3shot pretty much every healer

with backstab & assassinate.

[dougan]

Like I said, I don't have combat logs to present, because they aren't accessible. However, I assure you that we were chaining interrupts. We would get him down to 1/5 hp but the other healer would save him or the juggernauts would re-guard or they would get a new shield from the inquisitors. The other team had a pre-made where 2 of the people were the healers in question, so I know they were organized. I don't know know what else to say without the logs or without other people sharing the same experience.

 

-PTL

 

You're basically complaining about losing a 2 on 3. You and your friend against two healers and a tank.

[Gway]

Learn to play?

[LimitPrime]

You're basically complaining about losing a 2 on 3. You and your friend against two healers and a tank.

 

No. If you read the OP you would see that I mention that 4 DPS were focused on one person. It was not a 2 on 3. More like 5 on 3. Our 4DPS 1 healer vs 2 healer 1 tank on an arbitrary side of voidstar.

 

 

But I can see now there's going to be a lot of "Go QQ yourself a river" posts. I understand this. I'm sure there's a lot of composition issues with my team that I can't account for. But like I said, this scenario has happened to me at least 10 times. I've waited until now to say anything. I was just trying to guage if anyone else saw this scenario and had the same experience, you know... to get the ball rolling on any possible imbalances in a new game (because I'm sure this game is perfectly balanced by now).

 

One last point of thought... For a full heal spec sage... Can anyone tell me the exact amount of damage absorption for force armor? Or is "a Force shield that absorbs a high amount of damage" clear enough to everyone?

 

-PTL

[dougan]

No. If you read the OP you would see that I mention that 4 DPS were focused on one person. It was not a 2 on 3. More like 5 on 3. Our 4DPS 1 healer vs 2 healer 1 tank on an arbitrary side of voidstar.

 

 

But I can see now there's going to be a lot of "Go QQ yourself a river" posts. I understand this. I'm sure there's a lot of composition issues with my team that I can't account for. But like I said, this scenario has happened to me at least 10 times. I've waited until now to say anything. I was just trying to guage if anyone else saw this scenario and had the same experience, you know... to get the ball rolling on any possible imbalances in a new game (because I'm sure this game is perfectly balanced by now).

 

One last point of thought... For a full heal spec sage... Can anyone tell me the exact amount of damage absorption for force armor? Or is "a Force shield that absorbs a high amount of damage" clear enough to everyone?

 

-PTL

 

If 5 people couldn't kill 1 healer they're doing it wrong. If you and your friend have been 2 of the 5 more than TEN TIMES, there's a good chance it's your fault.

 

I play a Defensive Grd and roll with a healer, Shadow, and a Sent. Me, the Shadow and the Sent have only ever had trouble killing people against groups with 4+ healers. And in that case, we usually end up winning the match--which is all that really matters anyway.

 

I know for a fact that it's possible for a healer to survive against 5 people beating on him when he's guarded and has the support of another healer--ours do it all the time. If no one is harassing the other healer, it's GG. If nobody knocks the tank back out of the 15m Guard range, it's GG.

[Rabbican]

One last point of thought... For a full heal spec sage... Can anyone tell me the exact amount of damage absorption for force armor? Or is "a Force shield that absorbs a high amount of damage" clear enough to everyone?

-PTL

 

Anywhere between 2.5k and 3.5k dmg is what it seems to take... not sure if it can crit etc... just from my own personal observations. Sin/Shadow, Operative/Scoundrel,Gunslinger/Sniper can usually pop it one hit, most other classes it takes 2-3 hits.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Rabbican

[Zordock]

Honestly I am calling bull, maybe it is because I came from WoW where healers are God mode, but I really don't see healers being OP even tho I am lvl 25 (had an identity crisis! Marauder or Merc!). Seems like a L2P honestly from what u have said. The best strat is to never let a healer free cast and you said yourself that you guys will tunnel one and let 2+ others free cast. You need atleast 1 dps per healer while you focus the other down.

[Mothanos]

Are you trolling OP ?

 

Healers needs to be buffed if anything -_-

I just rerolled on a new server and started a IA ops spec and the problems i give them at level 30 are insane.

 

I can interupt them 3 times wich is quite severe to stop them from healing themselves or other...

With 2 dps on 1 healer they are molested so bad that they are on the brink of rage quiting

 

Also keep in might that a healer should be able to tank out 2 dps at least, why would you level a healer anyways for pvp if you coulnt even tank 1 dps.....

[Zintiel]

Learn to interrupt.

 

Well, maybe your friends need to.

 

I almost never see pugs interrupt a cast.

[exphryl]

Healers are slightly getting out of hand as 50 game play becomes more prevalent.

 

"Interrupt" is not the be all end all solution, nor is it realistically practical 100% of the time either.