Stop the nerf calls for Operatives.

[Awrini]

30 seconds huh... where do you get your information?

[Obie_Wan]

Don't blame me if the OP's information at the front is wrong. Just because he can't use debilitate, doesn't mean he doesn't have other CCs up. The opener gives a full bar on the target, meaning he'd have to wait regardless and using up his entire array of stuns wouldn't be likely, but being able to use it after the vanish-rinse repeat is definitely plausible. Edited January 1, 2012 by Obie_Wan

[Trux]

The information is correct in the front post. 45sec Debilitate, talented to 30secs.

[Awrini]

My comment was regarding vanish. =/ And well... no lvl 50 conc op, or scrapper scound uses debilitate or dirty kick on the person they open on.

[Dronp]

Eh...scoundrels are balanced vs level 50's with pvp gear. But we completely wreck anyone under 50 so I fully expect a nerf before bioware fixes the retarted bracket system.

[Awrini]

well if they have to nerf us, they best let our cleansing ability remove the conular/SI force dot.

 

Yeah I love being stuck out of stealth for a good 15 sec after a fight because of an unremovable dot.

[Faims]

Out of all the Stealth classes I've played across MMOs, Scoundrels/Operatives are the most reliant on their initial burst. Their out of stealth DPS is such a joke and energy consuming that I don't see myself doing any DPS in pve raids/flashpoints, and just go for healing instead.

[Bloodymoon]

I am a Marauder and have 490 Expertise. If an equally or better geared Scoundrel/IA does his thing and my CC breaker is on CD (which it often is, since there is a ton of CC in the game), I am at 10-20% when the knockdown ends.

 

I get usually hit for over 5,5k with the first hit...

[Kyrandis]

SHIV BACKSTAB SHIV BACKSTAB 3k 3k 3k 3k 3k.

 

This class is ruining pvp.

 

And then you hit 50. Have a revelation about PvP, and notice people traveling in a group. You start to realize this class offers almost 0 utility, and quickly realize just how stupid Tank/Healer/Healer really is and how futile it to try and kill healers cross-healing as well as CCin with a tank protecting them.

[Kyrandis]

Dddoublepost Edited January 1, 2012 by Kyrandis

[Koendewit]

You shouldn't be able to come out of stealth, stun them, knock them down and kill them before they can even get back up.

 

Operatives have too much burst. Should they have a nasty opener? Absolutely. But the damage from an Operative/Scoundrel should not come from their opening shot and should be spread out to make them more viable outside of stealth.

 

You cannot stun and then knockdown. PERIOD. Learn to read the post and stop QQ about stunlock because that doesnt excist in this class.

[Koendewit]

I mention this in my own topic but it should not be possible for ANY class to kill another character, both at level 50, in the span of < 5 seconds. It just shouldn't. God forbid 2 of you guys show up at once cause I've gone from full health to dead in all of ONE second before when thats happened.

 

A nerf is required in some way or some form. Period. Other classes need balancing too but this is the most blatantly obvious one atm.

 

Either you are a bad player or have crappy gear, because if you just cc break/trinket at the end of the knockdown and use your own cc then u are not dead in 5 sec. Trust me, i play a scoundrel.

[Koendewit]

SHIV BACKSTAB SHIV BACKSTAB 3k 3k 3k 3k 3k.

 

This class is ruining pvp.

 

Ever heard of CD's dude.. we cant spam backstab like a shadow can. And besides of owning in 1v1 we can do nothing else, only if we are healing.

[PrOBed]

Lots of defensive replies, so try this, Full Tank PVP Spec BH, 7 pieces of Champion Gear, In the space of a knockdown I get a 4.2k, a 3.6k, and another 3k, yes your not overpowered at all ...... 11k HP from a 17.5k Tank, all is fine huh ( and all you can hear is the non stop sound of kick ). Edited January 1, 2012 by PrOBed

[Kyrandis]

You cannot stun and then knockdown. PERIOD. Learn to read the post and stop QQ about stunlock because that doesnt excist in this class.

 

You can if the fight lasts more then 10 seconds with dirty kick and then burn Disappearing act. But that would negate the whole argument about us killing everyone in 3 seconds of the first knockdown.

[Taurenizer]

I agree with the original poster. I am a level 41 operative and can easily tear any lvl 50 class to shreds 1v1 even against two I usually come out on top, but it is not because we are OP. This is due to the fact that the better players rolled operative and the noobs wanted sabers. We have to depend on our skills as opposed to button mashing. How else would you explain the fact that 60-70 percent of the time we can take out even 3 players by ourselves. It is purely a skill factor and has nothing to do with being OP. People need to stop whining and learn to play. If people whined less and practiced their class more maybe they wouldn't have to come here and post threads asking to have us nerfed. So all of you QQ'ers learn to play! Edited January 2, 2012 by Taurenizer

[Tankxor]

You shouldn't be able to come out of stealth, stun them, knock them down and kill them before they can even get back up.

 

Operatives have too much burst. Should they have a nasty opener? Absolutely. But the damage from an Operative/Scoundrel should not come from their opening shot and should be spread out to make them more viable outside of stealth.

 

You must be low level. I can't do this to anyone over level 45. SPECIALLY a 50.

[Krabcakes]

Don't nerf me bro.

[DirtyRavePanda]

They get hit hard already, when competent players fight them how they are supposed to be.

 

I don't have a problem with Operatives.

 

Every class is OP. Get over it. Your own class whatever it is is OP in some way.

 

LOL I player Marauder...come again?

[Bloodtau]

Just been in a warzone, operative managed to do over 600k damage. Go figure. A nerf is needed, and needed NOW

[Darkevilhum]

I like how all these noobs who know that if their class gets nerfed, they will royally suck. Yet they continue to counter whine against the nerf calls. And to boot you're all using the same stupid excuse: 'Yes we can dominate LOWER LEVELS AND UNDERGEARED people'. News flash, anyone below 50 gets not only stats/damage buffed during pvp, it's armor as well. And i'm sure you know armor = damage reduction.

Oh and if thats not enough, because of the way the buff system scales the lower level you are, the MORE armor you in fact get from the scale up.

 

Tried and tested, don't believe it? Go test it. Nerf operatives. They are OP. Fact.

 

Note - as a level 25-35 shadow using my tank stance (combat technique) i was rocking a massive 52% damage reduction. (Thats once entering a wz and getting scaled up). By 49, in much better gear ... measely 32%.

 

If you're still an ignorant operative after this point i'll simplify it for you. All your whining about not needing a nerf with the same excuse actually proves you need a nerf because of how easily you dominate low levels in pvp who have the highest armor/DR etc.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Darkevilhum

[Keengamer]

I dunno i'm a well geared 50, granted an assassin so low armor but every 50 operative/scoundrel I've played against can stun me and then follow up with 10k damage while i'm stunned. Dunno about that.

[JediDuckling]

As a 50 operative myself in semi champion pvp gear, I can absolutely obliterate people during a knockdown but they are level10-30 noobs in bad gear and are bad players. The 50 sorcs and warriors do not die in a knockdown.

 

If you call for a nerf because:

A) you died to a far higher level player

B) you died to a far higher geared player(especially pvp gear)

 

Then the problem lies in Bioware and their lack of pvp brackets. It needs to go and we need lvl50 only brackets because these nerf cries are going to ruin classes just because your getting dominated by someone 20 levels above you and decked out in champion gear.

 

On the topic of our CC being too strong.

 

Real facts

 

Debilitate - Stun - 45sec CD, can be talented to 30sec

Hidden Strike - Ambush, can be talented to knockdown. Only useable from behind, while stealthed.

Sleep Dart - 8 second incapacitate, breaks on dmg and can only be used from stealth on a target not in combat.

Flashbang Grenade - 60sec CD - Short range(5m) AoE incapacitate, breaks on dmg

Sever Tendon - 12 sec CD - 10m range knife throw - Snare, can be talented to root for 2 seconds.

 

Chain CC

 

Our "sap" or Sleep dart, fills the entire resolve bar making them immune to Hidden strike's knockdown or Debilitates stun. So Sapping before opening is not viable and the dumbest **** you can do.

 

Hidden Strike's knockdown, fills the resolve bar so you cannot follow up with a Debilitate stun to "stun lock" the target as they are immune to all CC.

 

You cannot Hidden strike + debilitate

You cannot Hidden strike + flashbang

You cannot Sleep dart + Hidden strike

 

 

Lastly, our non-opener skills are not that frightening at all and going toe to toe outside of stealth with any class played by a non-braindead person is a death warrant for us in most cases.

 

Our out of stealth combat abilities -

 

Shiv - 6sec CD

Lacerate - No CD but requires TA(tactical advantage) to use, which is generated from Shiv

Collateral Strike - 50% chance to proc when you lacerate a poisoned target - deals a small extra dmg hit and refresh TA, so you can Lacerate again. Cannot proc more than once per 10secs.

Backstab - 9sec CD - can only be used from behind

Acid Blade - adds a poison DoT to your next Backstab or Hidden Strike and adds armour penetration for a few seconds after landing the hit.

Overload shot - no CD, 10m range gun shot - weak dmg compared to blade attacks and spamming it burns energy fast.

 

 

 

Shiv for TA -> Lacerate -> Shiv for TA -> Lacerate

This is our bread and butter. You hope for RNG procs for double Lacerates and you try get behind or CC to get an Acid Blade -> Backstab off.

 

We are a Rogue, stealth, CC, burst and defensive/escape cooldowns. Its clear to anyone who played World of Warcraft that the Operative was modelled after the Rogue in that game.

Warriors are going to get dominant very soon, they are so gear reliant due to weapon damage based attacks scaling with gear so well. You can already see the Marauders in champ gear destroying people in seconds.

Sorcs are already wrecking people and are the most overplayed class. They have as much control in a fight as an Operative while providing high long range damage, which isn't burst based so they can perch on a ramp and just wreck people consistently.

Bounty Hunters I have no clue about, other than that whatever spec focuses on missle spam does some crazy high dmg and the trooper equivalent hurts even worse from my experience.

 

TLDR: Learn a class before you rag about it being OP, the rogue archetype gets the most cries for nerfs in every single mmo ever created. Be thankful at least that we keep the Sorceror population in check!

 

they are crazy OP straigh out of stealth knock down and they can kil lyou in 2 seconds if that. not very fair at all. same goes for smuggler versions

[Knifewrench]

I've yet to hear any real convincing argument from the status quo players that it's necessary to have a class that has so much burst yet cannot die just as fast. Hopefully everyone's familiar with TF2 and Spy... they have the ability to instagib many people given permitting circumstances... and those players die because they are not checking. However, the spy is able to die quickly if spotted. Dead Ringer gives them a shot at getting away but it's never guaranteed (Pyro fire).

 

Of course, Ops/Scoundrels will cry endlessly if we do make their defenses and health that low.

[Euphymie]

I just died to a level 41 op as a 50 gunnery commando.

 

They simply do too much damage during the knockdown. Before i can get up and defend myself, I lost 3/4 of my HP and then i'm trying to knock them back and run but that doesn't work. At this time, my resolve bar is gone, and I get stunned again, i break, and cryogren them, he breaks, and i've lost my ONLY getaway. if i knock back the op, he'll just stealth and run around me and kill me as i try to heal.

 

detect stealth doesn't work because the area is too small and there's a gap where you can't cast it. Ops could be anywhere so it's not really a valid solution. you cast it on an area, you walk into that area, once it runs out, you get knocked down and killed.

 

I'm a 50 gunnery commando with 14k hp, AR 4131, with 255 expertise, and i'm getting destroyed by a level 41 operative?

 

This has nothing to do with me sucking because, how do you deal with someone that does 3/4 your hp during a knockdown and you're trying to fight off someone with full HP? But you can break out of the knockdown, then you'll have to deal with the stun and that's just free damage for them.