Skeelol Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Totally agreed OP. Besides, this isn't an MMO anyway so the excuse doesn't apply. It's a singleplayer game with a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hocuspocus Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Most of the memory needed for SWTOR is voice over. Also, this whole "WOW WASNT THAT GOOD AT RELEASE" argument has been run into the GROUND And so has your argument, of the monthly fee should make the game perfect at launch (like all the other MMO games that had no glitches at launch like...) Or is this your first MMO and were you surprised by the monthly fee and therefore expect perfection because of it. I hate to tell you this, but if you think everything that you pay $60 or more for, that has a monthly payment is going to be perfect then you are going to be very disappointed in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hocuspocus Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Totally agreed OP. Besides, this isn't an MMO anyway so the excuse doesn't apply. It's a singleplayer game with a sub. Go try some flashpoints and heroic 4 quests at the proper level and tell me how that single player thing works out for you, so tired of hearing this. You can play most of wow single player too until you get to 85.. Or is that point exhausted too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTie Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 GW2 lovers no bugs at launch LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) Go try some flashpoints and heroic 4 quests at the proper level and tell me how that single player thing works out for you, so tired of hearing this. You can play most of wow single player too until you get to 85.. Or is that point exhausted too? I did try those things, it's called having a coop. Something most games have nowadays. This game is in no way massive. Try again. PS: i've never seen a world feel more dead than in this game (npcs/mobs/player wise) be it SP or MP. It's a joke. Edited January 1, 2012 by Skeelol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hocuspocus Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 PvP is a bit of a pain in this game right now, especially Hutt Ball. Some classes have WAY too many tools for the way this WZ is set up. How does one class get an AoE knockback, stealth, CC, superspeed, etc? They will eventually get nerfed though so I'm not sweating it too bad. I'm more concerned with how many more Sith players there are over Republic players. I agree with you that PVP needs some work, but there is enough stuff in the game that it is not bothering me to much. It won't surprise me if it is revamped a few times really soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahR Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 And so has your argument, of the monthly fee should make the game perfect at launch (like all the other MMO games that had no glitches at launch like...) Or is this your first MMO and were you surprised by the monthly fee and therefore expect perfection because of it. I hate to tell you this, but if you think everything that you pay $60 or more for, that has a monthly payment is going to be perfect then you are going to be very disappointed in life. If something isn't worth what you are paying you have to raise hell to make sure it's fixed. If you are paying $30 a month for water and it's not up to city standards you can get your money back and possibly sue them if they don't fix the problem. They usually have to (by law) admit to this problem/flaw and generally will apologize. My house is perfect, my car is perfect. I'm not really sure what you are getting at. What is with complacency these days? Do people really just "deal with it" even if they are unhappy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hocuspocus Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I did try those things, it's called having a coop. Something most games have nowadays. This game is in no way massive. Try again. PS: i've never seen a world feel more dead than in this game (npcs/mobs/player wise) be it SP or MP. It's a joke. Haha really then all MMO games are COOP fool. I guess the operations are just coop too? The second comment does not even make any sense to me the world has as much stuff going on as any other MMO I have played and the maps are quite large, did you get off of the starting planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Haha really then all MMO games are COOP fool. I guess the operations are just coop too? The second comment does not even make any sense to me the world has as much stuff going on as any other MMO I have played and the maps are quite large, did you get off of the starting planet? Bla bla bla bla. Keep defending this pos that's going F2P soon. I'll be laughing all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hocuspocus Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 If something isn't worth what you are paying you have to raise hell to make sure it's fixed. If you are paying $30 a month for water and it's not up to city standards you can get your money back and possibly sue them if they don't fix the problem. They usually have to (by law) admit to this problem/flaw and generally will apologize. My house is perfect, my car is perfect. I'm not really sure what you are getting at. What is with complacency these days? Do people really just "deal with it" even if they are unhappy? Really so your cell phone never drops a call, your house never looses power, your internet never goes down. Your car never needs like new tires or breaks or has an unexpected problem? Or should I say your parents car. Frankly your house is not perfect your car is not perfect, and for the record, neither are you or I.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walldude Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Everyone raged on the BF3 forums about how sh*tty the game was. After week two and about a 1000mb patch, there was silence on the forums, because everyone was playing a "crappy" game I know, its a different story with big-budget, blockbuster shooters, where it happens in the first 10 days, but if you make it a little less extreme, it applies to most games, especially MMOs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hocuspocus Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Bla bla bla bla. Keep defending this pos that's going F2P soon. I'll be laughing all the way. Ok just go back to WOW no one will miss you my friend, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Ok just go back to WOW no one will miss you my friend, cheers. Oh but someone will miss me. And the rest of us. It's called Bioware not getting our subs. You're also gonna be missing us once this game goes f2p cause there won't be any quality content added to it anymore. Teehee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganini Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Very well put OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahR Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Really so your cell phone never drops a call, your house never looses power, your internet never goes down. Your car never needs like new tires or breaks or has an unexpected problem? Or should I say your parents car. Frankly your house is not perfect your car is not perfect, and for the record, neither are you or I.. My parent's car? I bought her car, and fyi, I had to take it back when it didn't run to perfection and they had to fix it, because it was new. My house does not lose power, because I am on a hospital grid and have medical equipment in the house that requires full-time power 24/7, so the power company came out and set that up. My internet never goes down, because it is a static OC-3 connection. The car example you gave is akin to maintenance not to standard features and perfection that is expected from something brand new in a 2011 release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dext Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Give it time. Seriously, it's been two weeks. MMO's are not like single player games that are basically complete when they are released. They are an ever evolving, ever changing game that is a constant work in progress. NO MMO has ever released finished or perfect, not even the beloved WoW. As far as MMO launches go, this game has had one of the smoothest ones to date. It can only get better from here. With the number of people they had on day one it is odd that the game run as smooth as it did. WoW did not even have the numbers TOR did on day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomaar Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I've been playing since early access and I haven't run into any game-breaking bugs. PvP warzones are smooth as can be, no stuttering. Go get yourself a computer that can run modern-day games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dext Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Bla bla bla bla. Keep defending this pos that's going F2P soon. I'll be laughing all the way. Wow show's how much you know about Lucas Arts. They well not take this game Free to play, it well be shutdown before that happens. Bioware some time ago put out there that if they had 300k subs that game is doing good and if they had 500k there doing fantastic. An with them having over one million people playing right now odd's are they well have no problem hitting that 300-500k mark. I my self do not see them keeping a million but, more odd things have happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashenic Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Every game released these days has bugs it is just the way of the world that many new releases need to be patched on launch and continued to be patched as time goes on. The problem isn't the bugs, that's to be expected. The problem is all the missing features that didn't require BW to be innovative whatsoever. They had all these games who had years to get polished that they could of referenced from, but they just seemed to have completely ignored key features from some of it. Which is quite baffling. Why move a step back when you could just go forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orande Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 According to some scholarly gentlemen on these forums, apparently MMOs are always released in a crappy state. Why not complain to the companies so that they stop being released in a crappy state? Wouldn't that make sense for our futures as gamers? This game is not in a crappy state. If you think that, you have dropped all sense of perspective. The game is playable, relatively bug free compared to existing (and some "mature") MMOs, the servers are stable, etc. To get to "crappy," you would have to start evaluating subjective items. Maybe BioWare/EA does not have any interest in their customers and they made a Star Wars MMO because they knew it would sell even if it was a flop? The incentive for BW and EA is for the game to NOT be a flop. If people like the game and get their friends involved, then that equals more subscriptions as well as existing players paying longer. The case for TOR being a flop needs to be a little bigger than a few cancelling abilities. It seems eventually is a popular word around here. What people need to understand is that "eventually" fixing a product is not going to cut it in a competitive market. Actually, in the MMO market, it will. Blizzard spent years fixing certain bugs and systems on WoW. I'm also reading that there are a number of fixes were stated in beta testing that were not fixed upon release. That is the most disappointing issue for me that leads me to believe BioWare/EA just used the beta as advertising and hoping to get people hooked before release. If bugs aren't fixed in beta, then when are they fixed? I don't know what you do or what level of familiarity you have with technology, but based on this I'm guessing you know absolutely nothing about computers, software, or anything related. I'm not going to try to educate you either as this post is getting long, but needless to say, just because a bug is identified, doesn't mean it CAN be fixed in a reasonable time period. Beta testing probably identified millions of bugs, all of which were on development builds. Each bug report has to be analyzed, compared to similar bugs for commonality, reproduced, and this is just to get on the list of bugs to be fixed. Then, the source of the bug has to be identified, among all of the possible sources, which in a massive client/server game could be dozens of possible sources. Then, if the offending piece of code has been identified, a plausible change must be coded and tested, and then all of the associated systems must be regression tested. That's if the programmer was lucky and the entire underlying system didn't need to be completely redesigned. Every step in this process requires a certain amount of documentation and paperwork. It all adds up. In engineering, you know what happens when mistakes are not found in beta stages of development and a product is released? PEOPLE DIE. (See: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35110966/ns/business-autos/t/no-easy-answer-why-toyota-accelerators-stick/) Ok, well people may not die from this video game. They could waste $60, $80, $150, which is close.... I guess??.. No. Anyways. This is one of the worst arguments about why bugs shouldn't be in a video game. Do you know how much this game would cost if video game developers had to meet the engineering safety standards of a product like an automobile or an automatic flight control system? Somewhere along the lines of 20-30 times the expense for the initial cost and probably 10-20 times for the monthly subscription. Also, expect the rate of content release to slow down to a crawl. A personal example: On a good day, I can write somewhere around 500-1000 lines of code. I test as I write, but obviously not the entire product. The code I write isn't safety related. If it was, I would expect the amount to slow to 20-30 lines of code a day. So were my expectations too high when I expecting a video game on the shelf to be fully functional? Or should I always just wait a year after the release of an MMO to buy it? I want to know your guys opinions on this. I feel like companies should be held responsible when they rush products out the door like this and the customers are the ones that suffer. No one is suffering. Seriously. And yes, you're expecting too much. The current state of the art of the software industry has simply not yet come up with a way to accomplish what you are asking. Bioware is one of the best, and in my opinion, they've done an exceptional job thus far. You should give it some time, because no one has yet done it better and with their track record, BW should be able to overcome the problems you find distressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britzer Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I couldn't agree more with the OP, this game is a flop but i still do play it until my 30 days are up. If by this time no fixes are in place i will not be re-subbing to this game. This game was rushed and it shows, if you can't see it that means you're either blind or just a fan boy of Star Wars. ToR could be been real good but BW just let everyone down with this crappy excuse for an MMO. So many things could be been done right, one thing they did wrong was put so much voice acting into the game they forgot about the game it self. Well at least we can count on GW2 to be a polished game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrFett Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The game is broken in many places. Stop playing. Hide under a rock until Guild Wars 2 is out. Play GW2. Come back to SW:TOR and realise nothings changed. Back to GW2. +500 light side points. Seems legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivaldisrk Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 "I feel like BioWare/EA is doing just enough to slip by and make a profit" This is so true, at this point in time I have no intention of going beyond my first free month. It's like Bioware created a normal single player game that you have to pay extra for if you want to keep playing it beyond the first month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthjerro Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I understand the idea of giving a game more time. I don't understand the idea that you have to stay subscribed to a game while you give it more time. 1 months sub costs me 30 minutes at work for 1 week. WTH is wrong with you ppl, get a job.... If you dont like it, unsub and go do w/e it was you where doing before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximusedward Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) I paid 60 dollars for this video game (a finished product) and found that it was riddled with bugs and stuttering PvP (I play as a 30 sniper and many times my abilities cancel for no reason, causing me to die and evently /ragequit). I get irritated when I get sold something thats not functional. Don't stop reading there please. I know how many of you like to stop reading negative opinions early. I come on these forums to trying to find a reason why the game was released like this; no devs respond and people just tell me to "give it time"? According to some scholarly gentlemen on these forums, apparently MMOs are always released in a crappy state. Why not complain to the companies so that they stop being released in a crappy state? Wouldn't that make sense for our futures as gamers? Maybe BioWare/EA does not have any interest in their customers and they made a Star Wars MMO because they knew it would sell even if it was a flop? Maybe they are releasing a bunch of new content (e.g. http://www.swtor.com/blog/sneak-peek-james-ohlen) just as everyone's free month that came with their SWTOR Christmas present runs out in an attempt to catch a few of them for another month or two? Maybe they added Starfox style "space combat" for a little extra PR? I feel like BioWare/EA is doing just enough to slip by and make a profit. Hell, even when getting personal with a BioWare representative (see: ) we still can't get a straight answer. It seems eventually is a popular word around here. What people need to understand is that "eventually" fixing a product is not going to cut it in a competitive market. I'm also reading that there are a number of fixes were stated in beta testing that were not fixed upon release. That is the most disappointing issue for me that leads me to believe BioWare/EA just used the beta as advertising and hoping to get people hooked before release. If bugs aren't fixed in beta, then when are they fixed? In engineering, you know what happens when mistakes are not found in beta stages of development and a product is released? PEOPLE DIE. (See: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35110966/ns/business-autos/t/no-easy-answer-why-toyota-accelerators-stick/) Ok, well people may not die from this video game. They could waste $60, $80, $150, which is close.... I guess??.. No. Anyways. So were my expectations too high when I expecting a video game on the shelf to be fully functional? Or should I always just wait a year after the release of an MMO to buy it? I want to know your guys opinions on this. I feel like companies should be held responsible when they rush products out the door like this and the customers are the ones that suffer. :confused::confused::confused: (Also releasing a game without high textures??? I want what ever they were smoking.) Its ok, Ive walked the same path as you but now I am willing to give them at least 2 more months until they implement certain things. If the ship combat was like the sw rogue squadron series it wouldve been great. Edited January 1, 2012 by maximusedward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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