Blogmonster Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 It is a simple obvious fact that there are too many skills around the late 20's and beyond. Is it bad to have so many skills? No. The problem is condensing them into a system that allows for fluff as well as core abilities used for optimized rotational damage in addition to situational abilities used to spice things up for said situational events. It's archaic to have every ability own its own slot, it's even more redundant that auto attack for melee was not worked into things being on CD i.e. when resources are insufficient or you click on a melee attack that is on CD you end up doing a filler strike (auto attack) instead. With the growing mound of abilities from the late 20's some abilities end up getting dropped altogether. However, I do believe some abilities could benefit from a "chain combo system" i.e. using an ability will move you to the next chain in a combo, temporarily replacing the hotkey with the new ability on top till used or the timer for "chain combo" expires. Aion nailed this system pretty well (youtube link): What are the pros of using a combo system? Well you can have infinitely more skills layered on top of each other with all the added depth in a more concise fashion. From technical stand point for animators (being one myself) it makes things much easier to animate to knowing the clips coming before and after each skill used allowing there to be much more fluid actions without an incredibly complex system behind it with the pre-determined options for the clips to go in is greatly narrowed down. Combo systems have many more choices in resource management because of the intricacies of chaining the correct combos to do the things you want, killer instinct gold anyone? It's a long shot to get bioware reading this but it's just my 2 cents. May the force be with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blogmonster Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 Didn't realize this would get swept under that quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celldoom Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Yes, i like Aion's system of combos. I also like RIFT's macro system where you can layer in a few abilities in the same macro and thus saving keybind space. Things like reactive abilities and short cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonrevolution Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) I totally agree. The amount of skills in this game is pretty over the top. You can call me a noob or a terrible player but I just can't handle binding 30 or more skills and executing every ability at exactly the right second. Rift was the first MMO that I really had fun with because it allowed me to combine reactive abilities and other often used skills. Did I combine every ability into one macro? No, of course not. The macro system did allow me to play more efficiently though and I ended up really enjoying my time in game as a result. Edited January 1, 2012 by neonrevolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarksideniYokoso Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Keep in the mind that the UI is still in it's infancy, a real barebones setup at this point. I am curious to see what direction Bioware takes when they patch the UI to be more user friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narusegawa Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 While i do like Aion's combo system, i havent really had a problem with placing too many skills on my action bars, as it stands on my main action bar, I still have one open slot i leave empty for mission items at level 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erudain Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Lots of skill should be fussed to save spots. Pommel Strike: hits the target with the ligthsaber hilt for XXXX dmg. Only usable against stunned/incapacitated targets. Opportune Strike: hits the targetfor XXXX dmg. Only usable against slowed/rooted targets. Really? why not combine those into one single skill becoming usable against stunned/slowed/rooted targets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivn Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I wouldnt say theres too many skills...........but i would say theres too many situational skills which are typically useless, pathetic dmg and TOO situational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomisu Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I agree. Around level 24 or 25 I was talking with a guildie playing the same class. I reluctantly admitted that every time I went to the trainer I hoped there weren't any new abilities. Was very relieved when the reply was "ME TOO!" At level 30 I am using 3 bars and only have 3 or 4 spots open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah, someone above said it best. Never played a game before where I actually wanted to get no new abilities. I'm 44 right now and I have 2 new abilities I will get before 50 and trying to figure out how I'll actually fit them onto my razer. Interesting that they pushed a naga out with this game that can't even handle the multitude of abilities the game and painful UI. I guess that's what happens when you take a mouse that was developed with one MMO in mind (WoW) and try to place it in a game that is light years behind it in regards to GUI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nahela Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Yes, i like Aion's system of combos. I also like RIFT's macro system where you can layer in a few abilities in the same macro and thus saving keybind space. Things like reactive abilities and short cooldown. Please no, Rift's system was awful. Nearly every class boiled down to cramming 5-15 abilities into a single faceroll macro because there was an excessive amount of abilities all on differing cooldowns and the macro system allowed you to exploit this. That being said, I agree that something needs to be done. There's a lot of abilities that don't do much different. I think if you cut 1-3 abilities off of every class, things would flow a lot nicer. Having variety is nice, but when that variety is simply window dressing it just makes gameplay tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikusu Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Obviously you never played a Paladin Pre-Cataclysm in WoW. I was using five bars and 90% of those skills were used in every PvP match. Even a threat reduction skill had a glyph to reduce damage done from enemies. I'm not quite sure which class you're playing, but two bars and a side bar for out of combat skills really doesn't seem that bad. To each his own, but I personally hate the combo system. It locks you into a rotation and makes you very predictable in PvP. So far I like the synergy skills have with talents and what not without being forced to press 1-2-3 or 1-2-4. Edit: There's also a lot of skills that don't see use based on your desired spec. Make sure you're not just throwing every skill on your bar and check your rotation/priority skill system. Example being the Power Shot is replaced by Tracer Missile for Arsenal spec'd Mercenaries. Edited January 3, 2012 by Nikusu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riulassher Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I am used to MMOs where I need 24+ keybinds to operate. But then again, I got into computer gaming by playing increasingly hardcore air combat sims. From oldschool F-19 to LOMAC, from EAW to IL-2 and Target Rabaul. I am actually highly disappointed by skill progression in this game, that new skills are fairly rare above level 30. I can get two or three from my tech tree, but it's still underwhelming. More skills! More options! More keybinds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthJopeous Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Complaining for too many abilities is crazy. You can choose the ones you want and leave out the ones you don't quite simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) All I see is people complaining that can't cram all there skills into a one button macro.... I like the system as is, it allows for player skill and human error.... something a macro removes... Edited January 3, 2012 by Monoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terin Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I completely agree. Although I haven't played RIFT or Aion, I'm confident in saying that I have just too damn many buttons to keep track of on my characters. Case in point, when you choose Jedi Guardian, you're given Sundering Strike. This should COMPLETELY replace Strike, but because it has a 4-second cooldown, it forces you to keep both handy, even though you're not necessarily always going to want to use Strike. It's just little things like that, that make me cringe. Personally, I'm of the belief that you should strive for about 6 buttons that are regular use, maybe 2 or 3 cooldowns, and 4 or 5 situational abilities for your specific role. When you're having to juggle something like 8 or 9 regular-use buttons, it's getting bloated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bead Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Not all skill are good for all builds. You have to review and see which ones are the best bang for the buck and not even look at the other ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everi Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah I slowly started to notice this. My highest character is only 23 but I already have the 2 bottom bars open and filled along with a bar on the right. I've keybound 5 spots so far and am looking at having to also keybind another 3+ for when I hit 50. I'm also pretty bad with keybinding, I see people with stuff like Shift+f while I only do stuff like R, T, and C, ect. I guess at this point it's just deciding what abilities you can live without/arn't required for any 'oh crap!' moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wivese Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I agree that there should be filler attacks when you click on an ability that is on cool down just until the ability is up. I wonder if it would be better for the filler attack to build resources or just be empty damage? It would help with the players struggling to manage their cool downs efficiently or are a bit inexperienced. I don't see that as a game breaking thing since there are no auto attacks. I don't agree that their should be combos that activate after using certain abilities or attacks. I like how many buttons you have to deal with its fun to make up your own rotations on the fly. Combat is a bit less redundant that way IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonrevolution Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I like the way Guild Wars 2 is doing their skill system. You choose 10 total skills at any one time from your skill book. Some based on your weapon, some on your class, and a few based on race. Seems like they are trying to make each skill as useful as possible instead of just dumping a ton of situational abilities on players. I really wish more MMOs would go in that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal_Narcowitz Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I agree there's too many abilities handed out. Bioware needs to do a pass through each Class/AC/Spec and trim the fat. Since not all of them are useful for each spec, a lot more of these abilities should just be rolled into the trees, replacing bland +x% damage talents. That would make the talent point system feel more useful (gives abilities instead of +x% damage nobody can math out anyway), reduce the number of abilities (particularly reduce the useless ones not designed for your spec), and ease the initial theorycrafting a player has to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokeytehpenguin Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 its no so much that there are two many skills, but that there are too many skills that could easily be combined/unnecessary/useless skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysam Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I dont mind having that much abilities, but I want a third action bar in the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikusu Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 its no so much that there are two many skills, but that there are too many skills that could easily be combined/unnecessary/useless skills. Not really. Most skills are spec specific. People just need to learn to play their class and quit face mashing every skill they get. Like a prior poster said though, I wish there were more skills later on. I was really excited when it didn't turn out like WoW for the first 10 levels where you're stuck spamming the same 2 skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faolon Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Not really. Most skills are spec specific. People just need to learn to play their class and quit face mashing every skill they get. Like a prior poster said though, I wish there were more skills later on. I was really excited when it didn't turn out like WoW for the first 10 levels where you're stuck spamming the same 2 skills. My Marauder has a use for every single one of the abilities I've gotten. Some less than others, but they're all useful for my spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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