When people ask for "target of target" to be implemented, is this what they mean?

[aznthecapn]

Honestly these forums are starting to look a lot like every other MMO forum, including WoW. Sad since the forums do have a lot to do with 'community' in an MMO. I guess these forums would have a bigger impact on community if there were server forums. I don't understand why those weren't implemented.

 

Reading this forum should make it clear why those were not added.

 

Besides that, implementing server forums means a LOT of moderation and that's a lot of hiring BW would have to do. I'd like to see more people creating their own server forums via other sources and Bioware supporting a place to display where these forums are located. Put moderation in the hands of the players.

[Achromatis]

As someone whose a primary PvE healer, target of target is extremely useful. Especially with the lack of mouseover macros. As it stands, this is one of the most clunky and terrible MMOs to heal in. Even LotRO is smoother than TOR.

 

The only reason against it is for PvP and it making it "too" easy to focus fire. Granted its really only a crutch in that regard, because any half decent premade will be using voice chat and calling out targets already.

 

I like healing, I like MMOs, I like TOR, but I have absolutely no fun healing in TOR when theres such a slick and responsive(WoW) system fresh in my mind to compare it to. A system that Bioware has had years to look at and must be fully aware of.

 

I dont like to compare everything to WoW, and theres a lot of things about WoW I do not like, but user control input and feedback is something it does very well.

 

How about be a better player, if you need a *********** window to tell you that the boss is not hitting you or is hitting someone rather than the guy you were just healing, you need better eyesight.

 

Lol youre an idiot. Lets ignore the fact that I have no issues with being able to use the current mechanics to target who I need to when I need to, because its irrelevant. I should not 'have' to because its a video game. Why isnt this game played using binary and to use an ability we have to use some form of code sequence, or are you just not that good of a player? Rofl, get over yourself.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Achromatis

[Forkrul]

Target of target is good, but what I really miss is having a SEPARATE friendly and enemy target. WAR did this perfectly allowing you to have an enemy target for attacking and a friendly target for healing, extremely useful in pvp and very useful in pve.

[Spaceguppy]

In some games, you can cast an ability directly on the target of your target in two similar scenarios:

 

1) I am helping my tank buddy JimBoba kill moon monsters (or maybe protecting a squishy JimBoba from anyone who attacks him). I target my friend JimBoba, and fire away with my blasters. My blasters will not hit JimBoba. They will hit whichever moon monster JimBoba is targeting and attacking at the moment. JimBoba can keep picking new targets and battle his way through a horde of enemies, but I only need to keep JimBoba as my target.

 

2) I am helping an entire group of Bobabuddies fight the giant 12 million hit point boss El Monstro, and I'm using a lot of healing spells/medpacs to keep my Bobabuddies alive. I target El Monstro, and cast my healing spells/medpacs. El Monstro does not get healed by my medpacs. The healing goes to whichever one of my Bobabuddies that El Monstro happens to be targeting and beating on at the moment. No matter how many times El Monstro changes targets, no matter how many of my Bobabuddies he attacks, I only need to keep El Monstro as my target.

 

In SWTOR, you need to press one key to target a friend, another key to target an enemy, another key to target your target's target, another key to set a focus target, another key to target the focus target. If you are helping JimBoba, you need to change targets every time he does. If you are healing your Bobabuddies, you need to switch targets every time El Monstro switches targets. This is less convenient, less efficient.

 

There is a debate over whether SWTOR's present system is more challenging and rewards player skill, or is needlessly clumsy and promotes carpal tunnel syndrome, but I believe this is the system change people are asking for when they ask on the forum for "target of target."

[Red_Vs_Blue]

If i am targeting you and someone clicks me to see who i am targeting, that is target of target. Very nice to have when u try to attack same mob as tank.

[Nymaeria]

In some games, you can cast an ability directly on the target of your target in two similar scenarios:

 

1) I am helping my tank buddy JimBoba kill moon monsters (or maybe protecting a squishy JimBoba from anyone who attacks him). I target my friend JimBoba, and fire away with my blasters. My blasters will not hit JimBoba. They will hit whichever moon monster JimBoba is targeting and attacking at the moment. JimBoba can keep picking new targets and battle his way through a horde of enemies, but I only need to keep JimBoba as my target.

 

2) I am helping an entire group of Bobabuddies fight the giant 12 million hit point boss El Monstro, and I'm using a lot of healing spells/medpacs to keep my Bobabuddies alive. I target El Monstro, and cast my healing spells/medpacs. El Monstro does not get healed by my medpacs. The healing goes to whichever one of my Bobabuddies that El Monstro happens to be targeting and beating on at the moment. No matter how many times El Monstro changes targets, no matter how many of my Bobabuddies he attacks, I only need to keep El Monstro as my target.

 

In SWTOR, you need to press one key to target a friend, another key to target an enemy, another key to target your target's target, another key to set a focus target, another key to target the focus target. If you are helping JimBoba, you need to change targets every time he does. If you are healing your Bobabuddies, you need to switch targets every time El Monstro switches targets. This is less convenient, less efficient.

 

There is a debate over whether SWTOR's present system is more challenging and rewards player skill, or is needlessly clumsy and promotes carpal tunnel syndrome, but I believe this is the system change people are asking for when they ask on the forum for "target of target."

 

^ Made me smile. Hope more people actually read it!

[Zhifu]

In some games, you can cast an ability directly on the target of your target in two similar scenarios:

 

1) I am helping my tank buddy JimBoba kill moon monsters (or maybe protecting a squishy JimBoba from anyone who attacks him). I target my friend JimBoba, and fire away with my blasters. My blasters will not hit JimBoba. They will hit whichever moon monster JimBoba is targeting and attacking at the moment. JimBoba can keep picking new targets and battle his way through a horde of enemies, but I only need to keep JimBoba as my target.

 

2) I am helping an entire group of Bobabuddies fight the giant 12 million hit point boss El Monstro, and I'm using a lot of healing spells/medpacs to keep my Bobabuddies alive. I target El Monstro, and cast my healing spells/medpacs. El Monstro does not get healed by my medpacs. The healing goes to whichever one of my Bobabuddies that El Monstro happens to be targeting and beating on at the moment. No matter how many times El Monstro changes targets, no matter how many of my Bobabuddies he attacks, I only need to keep El Monstro as my target.

 

In SWTOR, you need to press one key to target a friend, another key to target an enemy, another key to target your target's target, another key to set a focus target, another key to target the focus target. If you are helping JimBoba, you need to change targets every time he does. If you are healing your Bobabuddies, you need to switch targets every time El Monstro switches targets. This is less convenient, less efficient.

 

There is a debate over whether SWTOR's present system is more challenging and rewards player skill, or is needlessly clumsy and promotes carpal tunnel syndrome, but I believe this is the system change people are asking for when they ask on the forum for "target of target."

 

L2multitask?

[Your_Ad_Here]

It shouldn't. Its a stupid common feature.

 

Right ...

 

Do a 24 man raid with 10 mobs on you ALL have been damaged and tell me which one the tank is hitting.

 

Don't hit the wrong one .. might break the CC.

 

Yeah Target of Target is VERY helpful. Keeps what needs to be killed the only one, and keeps CC consistent.

[Nightrode]

It wouldn't be half as bad if there's an actual threat-meter.

 

But honestly, I think endgame raiding is going to be a joke regardless so it probably doesnt even matter.

[dharh]

I love this game. I overlook a lot of minor issues that need fixing to continue to play it. This is a minor issue I overlook, but it is not one that does not need addressing. "Get over it" is not a viable solution. ToT is a very common thing in games like this and to not have it is an oversight on the part of Bioware. Your expectation is incredibly ridiculous. If you don't agree, fine. But the rest of your post is just absurd.

 

ToT is a cludge for players who don't want to pay attention.

 

Someone mentioned being able to have a target and be able to attack the ToT. Screw that!

 

Players seem to have lost their edge getting spoiled on crap like WoW and Rift.

[aznthecapn]

ToT is a cludge for players who don't want to pay attention.

 

Someone mentioned being able to have a target and be able to attack the ToT. Screw that!

 

Players seem to have lost their edge getting spoiled on crap like WoW and Rift.

 

So you're saying its a better judge of skill to pay attention to who the mob is attacking rather than pay attention to a name? I still see a need to pay attention, just displayed different ways. Your pathetic attempt to split hairs isn't working. I'm sorry you don't like maximizing your gameplay like others do. You should be allowed to play less efficiently if people like you somehow think it makes you better. I think you'd still use ToT if it was put in though. You're just like the rest of us, you just want to think you're special though.

[dharh]

So you're saying its a better judge of skill to pay attention to who the mob is attacking rather than pay attention to a name? I still see a need to pay attention, just displayed different ways. Your pathetic attempt to split hairs isn't working. I'm sorry you don't like maximizing your gameplay like others do. You should be allowed to play less efficiently if people like you somehow think it makes you better. I think you'd still use ToT if it was put in though. You're just like the rest of us, you just want to think you're special though.

 

No, I tend not to play games that have ToT, especially NONE that allow you to actually attack the ToT while still 'targeting' a player to heal them.

 

I mostly always play tank and it has always been trivial to notice when the mob is no longer attacking me, the primary use for ToT.

 

Your attempt to minimize my opinion failed.

Edited December 31, 2011 by dharh

[Kahrain]

"OK guys, this is a 2 tank fight, where we need both the tanks to stand in front of the boss to split the damage, and swap threat."

 

You may not need a visual cue for who the boss is attacking, but in an instance like this, I would require it.

[dharh]

"OK guys, this is a 2 tank fight, where we need both the tanks to stand in front of the boss to split the damage, and swap threat."

 

You may not need a visual cue for who the boss is attacking, but in an instance like this, I would require it.

 

Why? It's been done before without ToT. It doesn't really help at all.

[aznthecapn]

No, I tend not to play games that have ToT, especially NONE that allow you to actually attack the ToT while still 'targeting' a player to heal them.

 

I mostly always play tank and it has always been trivial to notice when the mob is no longer attacking me, the primary use for ToT.

 

Your attempt to minimize my opinion failed.

 

I don't condone attacking/healing the ToT's target, but having a window indicating the ToT is very common and not much of a crutch at all. Target: neutralized.

[BrigOrion]

Most modern MMOs allow you to fire at your target's target with out having to deselect the friendly player.

 

It's not an MMO if it does not have this.

[Zunayson]

I love this game. I overlook a lot of minor issues that need fixing to continue to play it. This is a minor issue I overlook, but it is not one that does not need addressing. "Get over it" is not a viable solution. ToT is a very common thing in games like this and to not have it is an oversight on the part of Bioware. Your expectation is incredibly ridiculous. If you don't agree, fine. But the rest of your post is just absurd.

 

To be honest, all the features in an MMO, I don't even see why there is combat. if you want hotkeys and a computer to do all your stuff for you, from all these things for instantly selecting targets to macros to do all your skills for you, it's like all these games are good for is role-playing.

 

It's not ridiculous for him to tell you to use your brain. Although it doesn't take a lot of brainpower to see if someone isn't shooting red lines at you or waving a glowstick in your face.

 

As a tank, your job is to make sure the boss is attacking you. - Just taunt and attack as many people while generating threat

 

as a healer, your job is to make sure nobody dies. - spam heal attacks

 

as a damage, your job is to kill the enemy. - spam damage attacks.

 

None of those require knowing who the target of target is. Yeah, we know, you want to know who the boss wants to attack so you can heal him. What're you gonna do about it? Oh, yeah, nothing. You can just heal. So wait for the attack.

 

As a tank, if you see the boss isn't looking at you, taunt.

 

As a damage, why does it even matter? Just kill things.

 

"ToT is a very common thing in games like this and to not have it is an oversight on the part of Bioware."

 

Games LIKE this. Like, meaning a simile, means it isn't THIS game. Oh? SWTOR is LIKE SWG? No A-tab. Boohoo.

 

/rant

[ZefiruShrike]

All of the non ToTers make the assumption of thinking this is about 4 mans. It's not. Large operations are a whole new ballgame. Seeing what enemy is hitting you with 16 people + a slew of enemies all crammed in the same location leads to a situation where visibility is more or less worthless.

[aznthecapn]

To be honest, all the features in an MMO, I don't even see why there is combat. if you want hotkeys and a computer to do all your stuff for you, from all these things for instantly selecting targets to macros to do all your skills for you, it's like all these games are good for is role-playing.

 

 

No one has said a single thing about wanting macros or addons to do your job for you. We're asking for a minimal display feature indicating who your target is currently targeting. I'm sorry this concept causes you to rage at complete strangers or feel the need to be condescending to other human beings. If this is the case, maybe you should avoid subjects like this. Making yourself be negative is going to shorten your lifespan. Be happy. Ignore posts you disagree with if they make you upset.

[flunkorg]

To be honest, all the features in an MMO, I don't even see why there is combat. if you want hotkeys and a computer to do all your stuff for you, from all these things for instantly selecting targets to macros to do all your skills for you, it's like all these games are good for is role-playing.

 

It's not ridiculous for him to tell you to use your brain. Although it doesn't take a lot of brainpower to see if someone isn't shooting red lines at you or waving a glowstick in your face.

 

As a tank, your job is to make sure the boss is attacking you. - Just taunt and attack as many people while generating threat

 

as a healer, your job is to make sure nobody dies. - spam heal attacks

 

as a damage, your job is to kill the enemy. - spam damage attacks.

 

None of those require knowing who the target of target is. Yeah, we know, you want to know who the boss wants to attack so you can heal him. What're you gonna do about it? Oh, yeah, nothing. You can just heal. So wait for the attack.

 

As a tank, if you see the boss isn't looking at you, taunt.

 

As a damage, why does it even matter? Just kill things.

 

"ToT is a very common thing in games like this and to not have it is an oversight on the part of Bioware."

 

Games LIKE this. Like, meaning a simile, means it isn't THIS game. Oh? SWTOR is LIKE SWG? No A-tab. Boohoo.

 

/rant

 

Most intelligent post in this thread by far.

Sir, I applaud you.

[Herdsnerfs]

I don't want it, and I'm a tank. Too many WoW players here wanting the game dumbed down so it plays itself. I enjoyed WoW the most before all the things were added for "convenience" sake. In reality, it just made the game easier. Until the game practically played itself. The only thing to worry about was standing in crap, and people still did that.

 

Things like this breed bad players, seriously. Stop asking for stuff that makes people bad.

[dharh]

All of the non ToTers make the assumption of thinking this is about 4 mans. It's not. Large operations are a whole new ballgame. Seeing what enemy is hitting you with 16 people + a slew of enemies all crammed in the same location leads to a situation where visibility is more or less worthless.

 

Sorry I raid every weekend. ToT does practically nothing to help as the main tank nor as the healer. The only situations it used to help, at all, was before games had a window that showed the health of the _entire_ raid. Even then, all you had to do was create a main heal/tank group for the MT and put one healer (even non-primary healers) into each group.

 

ToT = useless for anyone who pays attention.

Edited December 31, 2011 by dharh

[Jeweledleah]

In some games, you can cast an ability directly on the target of your target in two similar scenarios:

 

1) I am helping my tank buddy JimBoba kill moon monsters (or maybe protecting a squishy JimBoba from anyone who attacks him). I target my friend JimBoba, and fire away with my blasters. My blasters will not hit JimBoba. They will hit whichever moon monster JimBoba is targeting and attacking at the moment. JimBoba can keep picking new targets and battle his way through a horde of enemies, but I only need to keep JimBoba as my target.

 

2) I am helping an entire group of Bobabuddies fight the giant 12 million hit point boss El Monstro, and I'm using a lot of healing spells/medpacs to keep my Bobabuddies alive. I target El Monstro, and cast my healing spells/medpacs. El Monstro does not get healed by my medpacs. The healing goes to whichever one of my Bobabuddies that El Monstro happens to be targeting and beating on at the moment. No matter how many times El Monstro changes targets, no matter how many of my Bobabuddies he attacks, I only need to keep El Monstro as my target.

 

In SWTOR, you need to press one key to target a friend, another key to target an enemy, another key to target your target's target, another key to set a focus target, another key to target the focus target. If you are helping JimBoba, you need to change targets every time he does. If you are healing your Bobabuddies, you need to switch targets every time El Monstro switches targets. This is less convenient, less efficient.

 

There is a debate over whether SWTOR's present system is more challenging and rewards player skill, or is needlessly clumsy and promotes carpal tunnel syndrome, but I believe this is the system change people are asking for when they ask on the forum for "target of target."

 

exactly especially if El monstro is precasting or channeling the ability and seeing it allows me to anticipate the damage and precast my own heals/shields, etc. its smooths out the timing.

 

I'm still enjoying SWTOR gameplay, both in terms of healing and dps (haven't tried tanking yet, so don't know) and I'm definitely in a camp of "This game is generally awesome and fun!", but it doesn't mean it doesn't have issues, and it doesn't mena there's no room for improvement

[aznthecapn]

I don't want it, and I'm a tank. Too many WoW players here wanting the game dumbed down so it plays itself. I enjoyed WoW the most before all the things were added for "convenience" sake. In reality, it just made the game easier. Until the game practically played itself. The only thing to worry about was standing in crap, and people still did that.

 

Things like this breed bad players, seriously. Stop asking for stuff that makes people bad.

 

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Its a tiny addition. Calm down. Move on.

 

Most intelligent post in this thread by far.

 

 

Your definition of intelligent is wrong.

Edited December 31, 2011 by aznthecapn

[Jeweledleah]

To be honest, all the features in an MMO, I don't even see why there is combat. if you want hotkeys and a computer to do all your stuff for you, from all these things for instantly selecting targets to macros to do all your skills for you, it's like all these games are good for is role-playing.

 

It's not ridiculous for him to tell you to use your brain. Although it doesn't take a lot of brainpower to see if someone isn't shooting red lines at you or waving a glowstick in your face.

 

As a tank, your job is to make sure the boss is attacking you. - Just taunt and attack as many people while generating threat

 

as a healer, your job is to make sure nobody dies. - spam heal attacks

 

as a damage, your job is to kill the enemy. - spam damage attacks.

 

None of those require knowing who the target of target is. Yeah, we know, you want to know who the boss wants to attack so you can heal him. What're you gonna do about it? Oh, yeah, nothing. You can just heal. So wait for the attack.

 

As a tank, if you see the boss isn't looking at you, taunt.

 

As a damage, why does it even matter? Just kill things.

 

"ToT is a very common thing in games like this and to not have it is an oversight on the part of Bioware."

 

Games LIKE this. Like, meaning a simile, means it isn't THIS game. Oh? SWTOR is LIKE SWG? No A-tab. Boohoo.

 

/rant

 

sigh, it actually makes a better healer that DOESN't spam heals. someone who pays attention and anticipates damage and preserves force otherwise. right now I'm healing on a sorcerer. my current bread and butter heal has a cast time (not channel time - cast time, which means it doesn't actually heal until after I finish casting it) or 2.5 seconds, talented. I can speed it up with a use of instant ability that has a CD, but its still 1.5 second cast. and not to mention - global cooldown that locks out all abilities the moment you use one. those seconds? they matter. they matter so much that they can potentially be a difference between life and death. ability to see exactly what's going on and anticipate it? is a hallmark of a good player.

 

you know why it was dumbed down in WoW? becasue DBM does all the work for you. it screams in giant blue letter exactly what will happen, it gives you giant timers in the middle of your screen. you don't have to think and barely pay attention, you just do what DBM tells you to do.

 

the is NOT what we are asking for.

 

we just want to have visual access without having to waste seconds on switching multiple targets.