Why does everyone hate the prequals????

[RagnarokJC]

redlettermedia was a very funny interview and spot on about movie mechanics and so forth but he was also wrong about half the stuff he pointed out. Most of his "plot holes" were actually things that just completely escaped his attention. I wrote the answers to several of his sarcastic questions, showing that his questions do not constitute proof of plot holes but rather show his lack of understanding. But I posted it in a different thread.

There have been apologists who've attempted to explain those plot holes in a similar fashion. They and you all seem to be missing the point: if the films were written well, those holes wouldn't be there to begin with. In some of your earlier posts, you went into great detail to explain the thoughts of characters as well as other details as if they were shown there on the screen to the audience. They weren't, and many questions were left unanswered as a result of the muddled writing.

[LordMerrick]

There have been apologists who've attempted to explain those plot holes in a similar fashion. They and you all seem to be missing the point: if the films were written well, those holes wouldn't be there to begin with. In some of your earlier posts, you went into great detail to explain the thoughts of characters as well as other details as if they were shown there on the screen to the audience. They weren't, and many questions were left unanswered as a result of the muddled writing.

 

You leapt to the conclusion without reading the actual post in question that I would be trying to make excuses for plot holes like an apologist. When in reality I'm saying that what he calls plot holes are not even really plot holes...the holes don't even exist. Major difference.

 

To keep this short and simple I'll give you just one glaring example of his numerous mistakes. RedLetterMedia claims that it is a major plot hole that we dont know who made the order for a clone army and why the clone army was created....he claims that the army just happened to be there at the right time by coincidence.

 

When in fact we were told directly in the movie that the order for a clone army was placed by lord tyrannus himself, AKA count dooku, AKA the apprentice of Lord Sidious. The order was place exactly at the moment in time after baby Anakin foiled palpatine's effort to incite a war by staging the trade federation blockade. Palpatine needed a plan b.....he ordered the creation of a clone army and 10 years later obi-wan discovers the army.

 

 

RedLetterMedia made a very funny and enjoyable review but he was just plain wrong on several instances.

[Ghrog]

Maybe if someone explained that to me as a kid I would have seen Star Wars in a totally different light. I was a very analytical kid.....I thought it was totally stupid they were torturing driods in jabba's palace and assumed that we were supposed to conclude that android technology is so far advanced that droids are programmed to experience feelings and can be convinced they are actually "suffering".

 

You know like the whole Ghost in the Machine.

 

Maybe if i watch it again with a different mindset I'll have a totally different experience. Kinda feel dumb now

 

Meh, no reason to feel dumb. You just watched the movies from a certain point of view... and as Obi Wan said in the origional trilogy, "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

[LordMerrick]

I'm sorry, I just cant help myself, another one of his claims is so stupid I just have to point it out. He claims that it is a major continuity issue that nobody recognizes Jedi in the OT but everyone recognizes them in the Prequels.

 

 

The OT was set approximately 20 years after the Jedi became pretty much extinct! It is a fair bet the empire made the topic of jedi illegal....confiscating and destroying all literature and making conversation about them a punishable offense. 20 years is a whole generation of people who were born and grew up to adulthood having never seen a jedi in their life....or even ever heard of one. In fact in real life, it only took about 25 years after extinction before nobody had any clue what a dodo bird was.

 

And in fact Han Solo actually DID know what a jedi was, and so did Admiral Roth and several other characters of the OT. They called it an ancient hoaky religion....in the same way today's children might talk about the Beatles. There is NO hole here, and NO inconcsistency.

 

 

you went into great detail to explain the thoughts of characters as well as other details as if they were shown there on the screen to the audience. They weren't, and many questions were left unanswered as a result of the muddled writing.

 

 

Yes, they were. I did not write a new story....I explained what I saw when I watched the movie. Maybe they could have made certain things more obvious, but that doesn't mean I made stuff up that wasn't there. I made the conclusions I was led toward by the movie. In the same way that I did'nt get that Star Wars is Fantasy rather than Sci-Fi, although now that I look back on it it is completely obvious in every way. I'm actually surprised at your claim since the OT was MUCH more subtle than the prequels are. In a number of ways. The Prequels were ham-fisted and sort of shoved everything in your face.

Edited January 5, 2012 by LordMerrick

[RagnarokJC]

To keep this short and simple I'll give you just one glaring example of his numerous mistakes. RedLetterMedia claims that it is a major plot hole that we dont know who made the order for a clone army and why the clone army was created....he claims that the army just happened to be there at the right time by coincidence.

 

When in fact we were told directly in the movie that the order for a clone army was placed by lord tyrannus himself, AKA count dooku, AKA the apprentice of Lord Sidious. The order was place exactly at the moment in time after baby Anakin foiled palpatine's effort to incite a war by staging the trade federation blockade. Palpatine needed a plan b.....he ordered the creation of a clone army and 10 years later obi-wan discovers the army.

If you're going to argue, you need to get your facts straight. The film only states that the order for a clone army was placed by Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas. Jango Fett mentioned that a "man named Tyrannus" hired him, but only as related to being the template for the clones. Also, it was never explained *why* the clone army was ordered, especially by a Jedi. The point that the RLM review made was that the clone army was treated as a contrived plot device for the Geonosian arena scene to save the remaining Jedi. Also, they had to be put in because of the line of dialogue in Episode IV where Leia referenced that Obi-Wan served her father in the clone wars.

 

The simple fact is that there are numerous gaps in the story told by the prequel films, and these are a result of Lucas' ineptitude as a writer and director.

[xXCheXGuevaraXx]

Hayden Christensen and Jar Jar Binks. That is all.

[newwb]

shot reverse shot

shot reverse shot

45 minute lightsaber fight

shot reverse shot

[LordMerrick]

If you're going to argue, you need to get your facts straight. The film only states that the order for a clone army was placed by Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas. Jango Fett mentioned that a "man named Tyrannus" hired him, but only as related to being the template for the clones. Also, it was never explained *why* the clone army was ordered, especially by a Jedi.

 

The simple fact is that there are numerous gaps in the story told by the prequel films, and these are a result of Lucas' ineptitude as a writer and director.

 

 

I agree that George Lucas is woefully inept as a director and a writer. As for the rest...you have GOT to be kidding me.

 

We know that Dooku was once a Jedi and fell to the dark side. After fighting Yoda, Count Dooku returns to Lord Sidious, who greets him with: "Welcome Lord Tyranus". We know that Jango Fett was recruited by Dooku for the purpose of being cloned into an army. And we know that Dooku works for palpatine. You have admitted this much yourself.

 

Are you seriously going to stick with the story that you cannot make the logical leap that Dooku was involved in placing the order for a clone army? Why else did a he recruit Jango to be cloned? Youre simply being willfully defiant because you dont want to lose a petty argument.

 

Let's continue. We KNOW palpatine wants to incite a war. We know that palpatine's apprentice is the one who recruited the template for an army used in that war. You cant make the logical leap that dooku did it on Palpatine's order?

 

Let's continue. The clones were bred with some kind of brain wired short circuit called "order 66" in which they execute all jedi without question. These clones have been working for the Jedi for years now. They are suddenly going to receive a phone call **from the enemy** and execute their own leaders? And now suddenly they answer only to the very enemy they have been fighting against all along. You honestly can't figure out that this is impossible unless palpatine was their true master all along?

 

 

You're childishly pretending to be obtuse so as to feel like you won an argument. Your "facts" are not facts at all. They are major comprehension shortcomings. Willful or not is up to you. The prequels are not fantastic movies....in some ways they are completely terrible. But they do NOT contain all the so called plot holes being claimed.

 

For the record, what redlettermedia did....the way he shredded those movies.......that can be done to ANY movie including the OT.

Edited January 6, 2012 by LordMerrick

[BenderBending]

After the thanksgiving beta weekend, I went back to watch all 6 movies because I was jazzed up about the game and I was jonesing for some Star Wars something fierce.

 

Then I remembered the prequels are terrible. Just turrible.

 

The Phantom Menace's biggest problem is that it's a movie for little kids. Jar Jar Binks is the most obvious manifestation of this theory. He is there to make little children laugh. That's it. From his extremely annoying voice to the klutzy situations he finds himself in. The list of examples is self-explanatory: stepping in a turd, being farted on by some alien beast of burden, being shocked by the pod racer energy binders, making a mess in Watto's shop, destroying the droid army by accident, etc. He's not the only one, though. The droids, the gungans, pretty much every character except Qui-gonn, Obi-wan and the Sith had some quirk that made them more child-friendly.

 

Speaking of the Sith, what is it about Star Wars minor villains generating huge and loyal followings? Darth Maul, like Boba Fett before him, is an exceptionally well-received and woefully underutilized villain. If Maul and Jar Jar had switched their screen-time allotments, this movie might have been salvageable. Phantom Menace needed more from Darth Maul than one-and-a-half fight scenes.

 

Midichlorians, need I say more?

 

Anakin Skywalker, supposedly the prequel trilogy's main character, is a profoundly unlikeable character. I dislike the idea of dumping on child actors, because they're children after all... but Jake Lloyd's Anakin is just insufferable. I don't need you to narrate your actions in the space battle, Anakin. Your son Luke didn't need to say "Let's turn off the targeting computer!" he just did it. Don't tell me you're turning left or pushing random buttons... I can see that for myself.

 

Attack of the Clones, seriously that's what it's called. Some of you might not be old enough to remember (or care), but there was much head-scratching and nerd rage when people learned that's what Episode 2 was going to be called. It's just as well, though. It's a name befitting a B-movie and Episode 2 certainly qualifies.

 

Insufferable Jake Lloyd was replaced by even-more-insufferable Hayden Christensen. Anakin is now a hormone-laden teen Jedi who lusts over a girl several years his elder who he met briefly years ago.

 

Poor Obi-wan was reduced to the role of grumpy old cop who gets saddled with young hot-shot partner. He even spouts lines like "I hate when he does that!" Hey accomplished and talented Jedi Knight Obi-wan, remember when reckless, impatient and untrained Anakin saved you from whatever dangerous situation that was? Ah yes, good times ha ha.

 

What was with the weird Geonosian arena-style execution for Obi-Wan, Anakin and Padme? They couldn't just kill them? Were they having a gladiatorial tournament that day and just decided to add the 3 of them at the last minute or is that just how they do executions on Geonosis?

 

The dialogue in Episode 2 is arguably the worst of the prequels. Anakin complaining about sand during a romantic getaway? And I know Yoda is supposed to speak all funny, but "Around the survivors, a perimeter create" ?? Ugh. Just turrible. Especially given the fact that Yoda speaks eloquently enough when he confronts Tyrannus.

 

And feeble old Yoda jumping around like a monkey on speed during their duel, what the hell? Lots of people cheered in the theater during my viewing, but I thought it was ridiculous.

 

When I saw Revenge of the Sith in theaters, I actually thought (along with many of the reviewers at the time) it managed to produce some of that old-style Star Wars magic. It's certainly the best of the prequels, but that's a pretty low bar to jump over. Upon repeat viewings, though, I don't think it holds up to the originals. The saving grace of Revenge is Palpatine/Sidious. Finally we get to see the Emperor in all his glory.

 

My biggest problem with Revenge is that Hayden Christensen is still the lead. He's bad... just bad. He's too whiny. His voice too crackly and high. His "I hate you!" at the end, which is supposed to be a significant moment for the Anakin/Vader character, is ruined by the way Christensen says it. He doesn't sound like a Sith, or a fallen warrior... he sounds like a teenager whose dad won't let them borrow the car.

 

"Younglings"? really? You can't just call them children?

 

The way the movie ended seemed like they were rushing through everything to wrap up all their loose ends. Almost like they were running down a checklist. "Luke goes to Tattooine, check. Leia goes to Alderaan, check. Obi-wan has to learn how to persist after death because he dies in Episode 4... oh crap how do we do that? Oh let's just say Qui-gonn comes back and teaches him. Check."

 

Also, Padme lost the will to live? What about her kids? She doesn't care enough about them to keep on living, but she cares enough to name them before croaking? Whatever, just a personal little nitpick.

 

The prequels are OK if you want to experience the "Old Republic" vibe... having lots of Jedi, actual choreographed light saber battles (seriously, watch Obi-wan and Vader fight in Episode 4, then watch their battle in Episode 3), and Old Republic locales like Coruscant. But as actual movies go, they're bad. Lucas really "nuked the fridge."

[RagnarokJC]

I agree that George Lucas is woefully inept as a director and a writer. As for the rest...you have GOT to be kidding me.

 

We know that Dooku was once a Jedi and fell to the dark side. After fighting Yoda, Count Dooku returns to Lord Sidious, who greets him with: "Welcome Lord Tyranus". We know that Jango Fett was recruited by Dooku for the purpose of being cloned into an army. And we know that Dooku works for palpatine. You have admitted this much yourself.

 

Are you seriously going to stick with the story that you cannot make the logical leap that Dooku was involved in placing the order for a clone army? Why else did a he recruit Jango to be cloned? Youre simply being willfully defiant because you dont want to lose a petty argument.

 

Let's continue. We KNOW palpatine wants to incite a war. We know that palpatine's apprentice is the one who recruited the template for an army used in that war. You cant make the logical leap that dooku did it on Palpatine's order?

 

Let's continue. The clones were bred with some kind of brain wired short circuit called "order 66" in which they execute all jedi without question. These clones have been working for the Jedi for years now. They are suddenly going to receive a phone call **from the enemy** and execute their own leaders? And now suddenly they answer only to the very enemy they have been fighting against all along. You honestly can't figure out that this is impossible unless palpatine was their true master all along?

 

 

You're childishly pretending to be obtuse so as to feel like you won an argument. Your "facts" are not facts at all. They are major comprehension shortcomings. Willful or not is up to you. The prequels are not fantastic movies....in some ways they are completely terrible. But they do NOT contain all the so called plot holes being claimed.

 

For the record, what redlettermedia did....the way he shredded those movies.......that can be done to ANY movie including the OT.

Comparing the PT films to the OT films is fallacious reasoning, so you're just digging yourself in deeper.

 

To assume that gaps can be filled in using "logic" is utter nonsense, especially when dealing with a science fantasy film. Here are some questions which the plotline for Episode II don't even begin to answer:

 

- Why would a Jedi (Sifo-Dyas) place an order for an army, even if it was at the behest of a man who turned to the Dark Side?

- Why was the army order placed 10 years before the events of the film?

 

To call someone "obtuse" because they're pointing out holes in a film that fails to explain them is also fallacious at best. Go to my post in the thread about how the PT films expanded the lore greatly to see even more questions that the films fail to answer. Those are holes, and it's got less to do with logic than it does with the ability of the audience to immerse themselves in the film and relate to the characters involved.

[newwb]

Hayden Christensen and Jar Jar Binks. That is all.

 

dont blame hayden christensen, blame the writing. in the ot, anakin is a great and noble jedi knight who tragically falls to the dark side. in the prequels hes a whiny emo kid who predictably falls to the dark side. hes written as a bad apple from the start, which makes no sense

[jarjarloves]

I agree that George Lucas is woefully inept as a director and a writer. As for the rest...you have GOT to be kidding me.

 

We know that Dooku was once a Jedi and fell to the dark side. After fighting Yoda, Count Dooku returns to Lord Sidious, who greets him with: "Welcome Lord Tyranus". We know that Jango Fett was recruited by Dooku for the purpose of being cloned into an army. And we know that Dooku works for palpatine. You have admitted this much yourself.

 

Are you seriously going to stick with the story that you cannot make the logical leap that Dooku was involved in placing the order for a clone army? Why else did a he recruit Jango to be cloned? Youre simply being willfully defiant because you dont want to lose a petty argument.

 

Let's continue. We KNOW palpatine wants to incite a war. We know that palpatine's apprentice is the one who recruited the template for an army used in that war. You cant make the logical leap that dooku did it on Palpatine's order?

 

Let's continue. The clones were bred with some kind of brain wired short circuit called "order 66" in which they execute all jedi without question. These clones have been working for the Jedi for years now. They are suddenly going to receive a phone call **from the enemy** and execute their own leaders? And now suddenly they answer only to the very enemy they have been fighting against all along. You honestly can't figure out that this is impossible unless palpatine was their true master all along?

 

 

You're childishly pretending to be obtuse so as to feel like you won an argument. Your "facts" are not facts at all. They are major comprehension shortcomings. Willful or not is up to you. The prequels are not fantastic movies....in some ways they are completely terrible. But they do NOT contain all the so called plot holes being claimed.

 

For the record, what redlettermedia did....the way he shredded those movies.......that can be done to ANY movie including the OT.

 

 

here's my little blurb about Order 66

 

Which would have been more interesting

 

The way it was done in the movie

 

OR

 

Anakin leads an army of clone warriors to hunt down and kill the Jedi.

 

 

 

The whole Lord Tyranus Master Sphyos what ever and Dooku creating the clone army was also stupid. Adding characters who we never see or are never mentioned is just silly. It leaves the audience confused and thinking if they missed him somewhere before.

 

 

Think back to the OT in the OT we have 1 constant villain the whole way through and that is Darth Vader. The Prequels we have a new one each movie and for no real reason.

 

Yes I am sure you are going to argue that Darth Sideius is the main villian all the way through but he really isn't as the Jedi don't really know who he is. They figure out he must exist at the end of TPM but they have no idea what he looks like and have no real direct contact with him.

[LordMerrick]

Comparing the PT films to the OT films is fallacious reasoning, so you're just digging yourself in deeper.

 

Youre the one who just "dug himself in deeper". I did not compare OT films to PT films, redlettermedia did that. I merely pointed out how he was wrong.

 

 

- Why would a Jedi (Sifo-Dyas) place an order for an army, even if it was at the behest of a man who turned to the Dark Side?

- Why was the army order placed 10 years before the events of the film?

 

 

 

I'm beginning to think you really aren't playing dumb..you just honestly can't wrap your head around this simple concept. As I already explained directly to you in a previous post:

 

10 years before episode 2 was the time during which episode 1 took place. That's when Anakin blew up the droid control ship and foiled Palpatine's evil plot. At the beginning of episode 2, Anakin tells ObiWan "I havent seen padme in 10 years". IE ten years passed between episode 1 and episode 2. Understand? Did you notice between those two movies that Ani went from being 12 inches tall to 6 feet tall?

 

Palpatine still needs to start a war, and needs not one but TWO armies to do so. The cloners explained to Obi-wan that the clones take 10 years to mature...because their growth rate is doubled. Hence, Palpatine and his clone army will not be able to start a war until 10 years after he places the order to buy the cones.

 

When did Palpatine's apprentice, Darth Maul die?? 10 years ago. When did Palpatine obtain a new apprentice? 10 years ago. Who was the apprentice? Dooku. Who recruited a template for the clone army 10 years ago? Dooku.

 

If Dooku tracked down and recruited Jango for a clone army, its a pretty safe bet that dooku was in charge of placing the order for the clone army that he recrutied Jango for.

 

 

We learn from the Jedi Council that master sifo-dyas disappeared and was presumed dead are you ready for this? Pay attention cuz it'll happen quickly: **TEN YEARS AGO**

 

Who did the cloners say placed the order for an army? Master Sifu-Dyas. When? 10 years ago...at precisely the same moment that Count Dooku recruited Jango FOR THE SAME ARMY. AND precisely the same time that Sifu-Dyas died.

 

Dooku killed Sifu-Dyas, or simply took advantage of the fact that he was already dead, and used a false name to place the order. Do I need to explain why he might have wanted to use a fake name? Would you use your real name if youre doing something illegal? Dooku told the cloners his name was Sifo-Dyas, and he also told them the army was for the republic (the cloners repeated this to obi-wan). Why did he say it was for the republic? Well besides the fact that it really was for the republic, he probably had to give the cloners someone to forward the bill to. You don't start a project like massive cloning unless you're sure your customer is wealthy enough to pay for it.

 

 

 

 

To call someone "obtuse" because they're pointing out holes in a film that fails to explain them is also fallacious at best.

 

 

1) You have yet to point out any hole in the plot. 2) I didnt call you stupid I said you were pretending. And I'm not gonna argue this out with you anymore or bother to read your other thread because i dont believe youre being completely honest with me...or even with yourself.

 

One thing we do agree on is that the prequels suck. The way padme died was completely stupid. I did not even bother to watch them in theaters bcuz I've never been a fan of any of the movies. I waited till it came on dvd. I am simply pointing out that many of the holes redlettermedia claims are in the plot....are NOT really there. And that I disagree with people who say the prequels make no sense, have no storyline, or have no drama. They might suck, especially phantom menace, but they DO make sense. And they have oodles of vomit inducing drama.

Edited January 7, 2012 by LordMerrick

[LordMerrick]

here's my little blurb about Order 66

 

Which would have been more interesting

 

The way it was done in the movie

 

OR

 

Anakin leads an army of clone warriors to hunt down and kill the Jedi.

 

 

 

The whole Lord Tyranus Master Sphyos what ever and Dooku creating the clone army was also stupid. Adding characters who we never see or are never mentioned is just silly. It leaves the audience confused and thinking if they missed him somewhere before.

 

 

Think back to the OT in the OT we have 1 constant villain the whole way through and that is Darth Vader. The Prequels we have a new one each movie and for no real reason.

 

Yes I am sure you are going to argue that Darth Sideius is the main villian all the way through but he really isn't as the Jedi don't really know who he is. They figure out he must exist at the end of TPM but they have no idea what he looks like and have no real direct contact with him.

 

Actually no, I'm not going to argue with anything you said because I dont disagree with any of it. Lots of the stuff they did was stupid and poorly done including what you pointed out.

 

 

My argument with redlettermedia is that much of what he says is completely stupid and simply not true. For example he claims one of the biggest plot holes with phantom menace is that the trade federation have no motivation for blockading naboo because they are merchants so they must want to trade. As if an increase in tax revenue isnt reason enough. History is filled with powerful organizations and governments doing exactly that very thing - momentarily impeding the flow of goods in order to increase their trade revenue or tax revenue in the long run. Thats why at the very start of the movie, we are informed that the jedi are going to resolve a "trade dispute". What is a trade dispute? Its when one side wants more money and the other side refuses to pay it.

 

He also claims that naboo has absolutely no reason for freaking out because they can just live off the resources on their planet. He calls this a major plot hole that makes no sense. When in fact its not just a blockade - there is an occupying army invading their planet and there is not a government anywhere in this universe that would just take that lying down.

 

He thinks its totally stupid that the Trade Federation has an army because they are merchants and merchants dont have armies. But the truth is they are a federation of trading and tax collecting planets. A huge organization that would have absolutely no way of enforcing their taxation or protecting their goods without an army. He needs to look up the word *federation* in the dictionary.

 

 

He says that nobody in the universe has any reason to assasinate senator amidala and that this is a stupid gigantic plot hole. When in fact amidala is the single biggest obstacle to Palpatine's goal of starting a war. She is single handedly spearheading the anti-army creation act. Which is the same as an anti-war act. And this idiot thinks palpatine has no reason to want her dead?

 

 

 

I said I also agreed with much of what redlettermedia did say. About half of it in fact. But for the most part the way he shredded those movies can be done to any of your favorite movies in exactly the same manner. Want proof? Take the OT:

 

 

Why didnt han solo return to pay off jabba the hut as soon as the death star was destroyed?

 

How come 20 seconds after Lando Tells Vader that the carbonite freezing equipment has never been used to store a live creature before....all of the sudden now there is medical equipment built into the carbonite to tell us if Han Solo is still alive?

 

Why is boba fett SHOOTING at luke skywalker in Bespin when Vader just told him 15 seconds earlier that he wants Luke captured ALIVE??

 

How did vader manage to arrive in Bespin and strike a deal with lando to betray han before Han even arrived there himself?

 

How come after vader interrogated leia with a large needle and torture robot, there was not a mark on her?

 

How come on bespin they put han solo into a torture/interrogation device but never even asked him any questions? The only reason they captured Han at all was to use him as bait to capture luke. So why are they torturing him?

 

How come han solo instantly thawed out from the carbonite? How did he live? He had no access to oxygen in there. Your body is 90% water and water crystalizes when frozen, breaking open every cell in your body

 

Vadar and Palpatine have been growing in strength for decades before luke was even born. Yoda tells luke "only a fully trained jedi will be able to destroy vader and the emporer. How did yoda really think that luke was gonna train for a couple years and then go kill vader and the emporer?

 

Or how about this. Why was there no explosive decompression when han stepped out of the millenium falcon inside the worm? Why didnt he even get a little bit cold? Why was there no digestive system inside the worm?

 

Why did they rebuild the death star with pretty much the same weakness that destroyed the first one?

 

I have not even watched these movies recently. I know that if i sit down and make a youtube video i can do a much better job than this. You can pick any movie apart, but that is stupidity. When you watch a movie, youre allowing the author to take you on a journey. If you choose to take the journey, then sit back and enjoy the ride. Dont sit there and think of all the possible ways this movie isnt like real life. Its a MOVIE. It was never supposed to be like real life. No movie is

Edited January 7, 2012 by LordMerrick

[Amaste]

 

My biggest problem with Revenge is that Hayden Christensen is still the lead. He's bad... just bad. He's too whiny. His voice too crackly and high. His "I hate you!" at the end, which is supposed to be a significant moment for the Anakin/Vader character, is ruined by the way Christensen says it. He doesn't sound like a Sith, or a fallen warrior... he sounds like a teenager whose dad won't let them borrow the car.

 

"Younglings"? really? You can't just call them children?

 

The way the movie ended seemed like they were rushing through everything to wrap up all their loose ends. Almost like they were running down a checklist. "Luke goes to Tattooine, check. Leia goes to Alderaan, check. Obi-wan has to learn how to persist after death because he dies in Episode 4... oh crap how do we do that? Oh let's just say Qui-gonn comes back and teaches him. Check."

 

idk if it's the jack in me, but I lol'ed. Very good description of the final movie. xDDD

[Mechavomit]

I don't. I love the time period, the movies are "ok".

Clone Wars are cool, the characters are cool, a lot more interresting than rebels, if you ask me. Maybe because I didn't grow up with ep. 4-6 like most of adult fans did.

[KeatoHarrolo]

To be honest I don't "Hate" the prequals. I actually find them alright. The thing that annoyed me which seemed to annoy alot of others too was the prequals were too "kiddy" which characters like Jar Jar Binks and the stupid droid voices in the 3rd movie.

 

I thought it was cool seeing Star Wars in CGI and better technology but its mainly how mental the story was. The prequals were just too different to the originals.. Have you ever tried watching the 3rd Movie then going straight to the 4th? It's just wrong.

 

Now the new Clone Wars series and movie. The story is alright and the fight scenes are quite entertaining but the "cartoony" style of it makes me rage. If there was ever a new Star Wars film (I know there probably won't be one until Lucas is in a box), I hope it's a CGI movie like The Old Republic Trailers. The CGI in the trailers look realistic enough (a lot more than Clone Wars) and the fight scenes are awesome (A lot better than Live Action).

 

I'm going to stop before I write a whole essay about ********.

[dazzlingss]

the only bad prequle is episode one episode 2&3 are awsome! because look at the horible stuff in ep 1 but look at the jump on how better it was and ep 2 was the best so i think personaly we should agree ep 1 i the worst ep 2&3 were better Edited January 7, 2012 by dazzlingss

[RagnarokJC]

Youre the one who just "dug himself in deeper". I did not compare OT films to PT films, redlettermedia did that. I merely pointed out how he was wrong.

You haven't pointed out a thing, since you've failed to provide any details beyond the point that you continue to belabor below.

 

<*Wall of pointless text snipped*>

You are missing the bigger picture by belaboring minor points, much like the guy who wrote the 108-page "rebuttal" to the RLM review. Of course the plot can be figured out by anyone with half a brain- that's not the point. The point is in *how* the story is being told.

 

When you want the audience to get immersed into the film, you have to fill in the gaps rather than using the plot as an excuse to get from one action scene to the next. Case in point: in Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgul that attacked Frodo and Co. didn't just come out of nowhere. They were explained by Aragorn when he and Frodo first met. Thus, the audience knows why they were after Frodo, and so the attack at Weathertop was set up. Getting to know the characters, good and evil, helps the audience to relate to them, and this in turn makes us *care* about what's happening, thus increasing our *immersion* into the film.

 

1) You have yet to point out any hole in the plot. 2) I didnt call you stupid I said you were pretending. And I'm not gonna argue this out with you anymore or bother to read your other thread because i dont believe youre being completely honest with me...or even with yourself.

I don't need to point anything out- you're the one who made the assertion that "half" the plot points that the RLM review examined were wrong. You're the one with the burden to prove your assertion is correct. Trying to turn the tables is a fallacious argument.

 

One thing we do agree on is that the prequels suck. The way padme died was completely stupid. I did not even bother to watch them in theaters bcuz I've never been a fan of any of the movies. I waited till it came on dvd. I am simply pointing out that many of the holes redlettermedia claims are in the plot....are NOT really there. And that I disagree with people who say the prequels make no sense, have no storyline, or have no drama. They might suck, especially phantom menace, but they DO make sense. And they have oodles of vomit inducing drama.

Read what I wrote at the top again. It's not the basic plot that people have trouble understanding, it's the details in that plot that help us to immerse ourselves in that world. The films exist solely to showcase scenes with visual effects and fight choreography. I'll agree that those scenes are nice and that the visuals are good, but the films have no *depth* to them. The PT films are much like the Transformers films, with the exception that at least the latter provides us with more views of beautiful girls.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

Oh, and to all the people that defend Episode III:

 

She lost the will to live.

[GellonSW]

The prequels were nothing more than a marketing session for Star Wars games and toys. Between the terrible writing, awful acting and lousy camera work we were basically watching Star Wars the cartoon instead of an epic space opera.

[GellonSW]

If you haven't read this yet, it is well worth it.

 

http://www.the-editing-room.com/revengeofthesith.html

[ibage]

The answer to the topic is simple, "Bandwagon vocal minority nerd rage".

 

Only on the internet do you find ppl spewing the vitrol and unmitigated hate about the prequals to the point of wanting ppl to die IRL because of them. In reality these same ppl are at each SW celebration every year with an Anakin or Jar Jar costume on.

 

You're just as token as the folks you seem to be attacking. Sometimes popular things are good for a reason. Vice versa, sometimes everyone seems to hate something with good reason. The prequels did not live up the OT. I could go on and on about how badly Lucas messed up but I'm sure other either already have this covered in this thread or will be covered shortly.

Edited January 7, 2012 by ibage

[RagnarokJC]

If you haven't read this yet, it is well worth it.

 

http://www.the-editing-room.com/revengeofthesith.html

This was classic and I LOL'd. Thanks.

 

To LordWhatever: read it if you want to see some plot holes in the PT films.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

If you haven't read this yet, it is well worth it.

 

http://www.the-editing-room.com/revengeofthesith.html

 

Hahaha...priceless!

 

And with that bit of evidence, I rest my case: all three prequels were garbage, and no amount of Tarzan-swinging, molten lava-riding, high ground-flipping Jedi are going to change that.