Bioware needs a new philosophy

[AJediKnight]

That said, let's not get derailed by the SOPA topic. It will pass, and that's that. Nothing we can do about it.

 

We could stop them. And I don't mean with votes. I don't believe the founding fathers would want people to lay down and give up as a corrupt and bloated institution ravaged the first ammendment. They would want... 'action.'

 

Sometimes, in rare circumstances, mutiny is not only justified; it is righteous.

[Grrl]

Nintendo, EA, and Sony now join Microsoft as the major gaming companies who oppose SOPA, and there’s some speculation as to how much of an influence the internet backlash has had in their decisions. Earlier toady, we reported on the threat made to Sony from the online hacking group and Guy Fawkes fan club, Anonymous. And just days ago, it was reported that sites like Google, Amazon and Facebook have mulled an internet black-out should the bill pass into law.

While the SOPA was originally spearheaded by major corporations across the entire entertainment industy such as the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) and the American Federation of Musicians (AFM), it does appear that the video game industry is beginning to shift its support in the other direction.

http://stickskills.com/2011/12/30/sopa-update-nintendo-electronic-arts-and-sony-all-drop-support-for-the-bill/

[Blackwater]

So what do you want? I hear complaints but no solution.

Did you not read my post?

 

Put flashpoints on planets, not on one space station and make us GO OUT to collect crafting materials instead of just sending our companions.

 

There's two solutions off the top of my head

[Blackwater]

I suspect the many millions theyve made and are continuing to make show quite a bit for it. There are far more of us happy and staying than complaining and quitting.

 

Besides, if you've quit already then I dont put much confidence in what you suggest. If you believed enough in this game and wanted to see changes made, you'd still be here, You're quitting within a week, after soaking up months and months of beta. Im sorry but the dramatic "Im quitting and here's why" letters just dont move me in this game or any other.

Yes, i know they don't "Move you", well I'm not writing this for YOU

 

The universe doesn't revolve around YOU

 

I've played A LOT of MMOs and I've seen this pattern before. Design flaws this big aren't something a company can shake in a few patches. It's something that has to change in Biowares way a thinking

 

The fact that they couldn't predict the state that Ilum is currently in is a testimate to how blindsided Bioware can become with design issues

[Sohtaraz]

Why do people assume that critism of your game has to be suggestions?

 

I'm sorry did I misunderstood what does PAYING a company to develop and maintain an MMO involve? Are we supposed to develop the gameplay changes and freature fixes on behalf of developers while they roll around the money that we gave them?

 

 

And yes the flashpoints are a valid point. Its annoying to go to a flashpoint from a planet sometimes and it breaks the entire leveling experience in half. This is nowhere near a good system specially when you compare the level of flashpoints, some of them are barely more then glorified grinding sessions with flashy elites instead of normal mobs.

 

And yes, with the current LFG system this will mean that all the end game population will be sitting in the same area, the flashpoint area, since its most convinient for them making the zone most likely laggy and rest of the space station deserted.

[JustSoPro]

http://stickskills.com/2011/12/30/sopa-update-nintendo-electronic-arts-and-sony-all-drop-support-for-the-bill/

 

How many times am I going to have to post this.... Every company that is in ESA supports SOPA still. That includes Nintendo, Electronic Arts, Microsoft, and Sony. Activision and NCSoft are literally the only major gaming company that do not support SOPA.

 

As I already stated in this thread ESA (Entertainment Software Association) supports SOPA.

Members of ESA:

* 38 Studios * 345 Games * 505 Games * Capcom USA, Inc. * Deep Silver

* Disney Interactive Studios, Inc. * Eidos Interactive* Electronic Arts* Epic Games, Inc.

* Her Interactive, Inc. * Ignition Entertainment* Konami Digital Entertainment

* LEVEL-5 Inc.* Microsoft Corporation* Namco Bandai Games America Inc.

* Natsume Inc. * Nexon America, Inc. * Nintendo of America Inc.* Nival

* NVIDIA * O-Games, Inc. * Perfect World Entertainment* SEGA of America, Inc.

* Slang* Sony Computer Entertainment America * Sony Online Entertainment, Inc.

* Square Enix, Inc.* Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc.

* Tecmo Koei America Corporation * THQ, Inc.* Trion Worlds, Inc.

* Ubisoft Entertainment, Inc. * Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment Inc.

* XSEED Games

 

As you can see EA is still a member of ESA and as such and removal of support from SOPA is simply a PR move and they are still supporting it through ESA. I think it is even more wrong of them to attempt to deceive us into believing that they no longer support SOPA, then simply supporting SOPA.

Edited December 31, 2011 by JustSoPro

[Sohtaraz]

How many times am I going to have to post this....

 

Just once per thread but people don't even understand what a constructive discussion is on these boards, they just try to drone their way trough discussion yelling the same few lines over and over instead of actually thinking about the issues.

[darthdoll]

Because there is no REASON to get out and play the game. Bioware gave us no incentive to go back to all the great planets like Hoth or Bel Savis...

 

I remember i got the Eternity Vault quest, and it said "Go to the Bel Savis depths" and i was like "Oh cool! I get to go back to Bel Savis and explore some things i might have missed!"

 

WRONG

 

I had to run down the ramp of the ship into instance. This is a DEVASTATING design flaw

 

You say its a horrible design flaw...

 

Let me ask you this, have you ever made a video game?

 

Have you been involved in a dev team by chance?

 

If 1 of the answers are no, then you have no idea about design and or flaws

 

Thank you.

[Ascendic]

A reason to not buy or subscribe to their games. Sad that BW is in boat with them.

 

Most game / music / movie producers will blindly support such a bill because they think it will amount to more $$$ for them.

 

What a joke. It will never fix the problem because the problem is un-fixable. It is like making harsh laws for murderers, guess what? You could say you will put every murderer in the electric chair -- they will still do it.

 

Ridiculous bills and laws like this just show how out of touch politicians and industry executives are with the internet world (or world in general).

 

If anything passing laughable laws like this will only light the fire in the hacker / pirating community and eventually start a cyber war of which the government WILL LOSE. People will band together and create their own private networks just like they used to be, then what? MPAA / RIAA / Gaming industry will go QQ in the corner until the government revokes privacy rights and starts tapping and invading private networks, and then what?

 

You can not defeat an ever adaptive changing enemy with endless soldiers.

 

Stop trying.

 

They are playing with fire and sooner or later it is going to blow up in their faces big time.

 

I will be there laughing heartily.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Ascendic

[JustSoPro]

Just once per thread but people don't even understand what a constructive discussion is on these boards, they just try to drone their way trough discussion yelling the same few lines over and over instead of actually thinking about the issues.

 

Its sad because its going to be people like this that actually allow this bill to be passed...

[RollingDeep]

Why do people assume that critism of your game has to be suggestions?

 

I'm sorry did I misunderstood what does PAYING a company to develop and maintain an MMO involve? Are we supposed to develop the gameplay changes and freature fixes on behalf of developers while they roll around the money that we gave them?

 

 

And yes the flashpoints are a valid point. Its annoying to go to a flashpoint from a planet sometimes and it breaks the entire leveling experience in half. This is nowhere near a good system specially when you compare the level of flashpoints, some of them are barely more then glorified grinding sessions with flashy elites instead of normal mobs.

 

And yes, with the current LFG system this will mean that all the end game population will be sitting in the same area, the flashpoint area, since its most convinient for them making the zone most likely laggy and rest of the space station deserted.

 

I'm sorry but can I get a game where that's not what the end game population did? Only instead of a city it's a space station. And criticism just to be critical is pointless. It's a waste of time that could be better spent doing almost anything else. That's y most people are asking for a suggestion. Otherwise you a hinderance to the solution, w/e it may be, not helping to achieve that solution.

[Blackwater]

You say its a horrible design flaw...

 

Let me ask you this, have you ever made a video game?

 

Have you been involved in a dev team by chance?

 

If 1 of the answers are no, then you have no idea about design and or flaws

 

Thank you.

 

Oooo this is a logically fallacy I haven't seen in a while!

 

Let me ask you this. Am I not allowed to say that food tastes bad just because I'm not a chef?

[Aiyana]

Games been officially out less then 2 weeks even if you got in day one of EA you have been playing what maybe 20 days. End game is End game no company in their right minds would be concentrating on end game content this early. And no investors would approve should a stupid move.

 

Most people playing MMOs never even get to end game. And in most MMOs only a select few really get to play it anyway as it quickly gets dominated by end game guilds that only do the content.

 

Let me say in plain English. Catering to 1% or even 10% of your costumer base at the expense of the rest is bad business in any book.

[Arkerus]

NIntendo, EA, and portions of Sony have withdrawn their support of the bill. It has a very little chance of passing now. The public may actually be winning the war.

[Grrl]

Most game / music / movie producers will blindly support such a bill because they think it will amount to more $$$ for them.

 

What a joke. It will never fix the problem because the problem is un-fixable. It is like making harsh laws for murderers, guess what? You could say you will put every murderer in the electric chair -- they will still do it.

 

Ridiculous bills and laws like this just show how out of touch politicians and industry executives are with the internet world (or world in general).

 

If anything passing laughable laws like this will only light the fire in the hacker / pirating community and eventually start a cyber war of which the government WILL LOSE. People will band together and create their own private networks just like they used to be, then what? MPAA / RIAA / Gaming industry will go QQ in the corner until the government revokes privacy rights and starts tapping and invading private networks, and then what?

 

You can not defeat an ever adaptive changing enemy with endless soldiers.

 

Stop trying.

Yes.

 

The truth is that pirating helps to market a product, hence is responsible for a commercial success. Just look at the most pirated stuff it all is the top market products. Adobe Photoshop only became a standard because it was so widely available. And Photoshop basically is a ripoff from an amiga paint program called deluxe paint... anyway.

[JustSoPro]

NIntendo, EA, and portions of Sony have withdrawn their support of the bill. It has a very little chance of passing now. The public may actually be winning the war.

 

Why do I even bother trying to inform the stupid...

[Blackwater]

Games been officially out less then 2 weeks even if you got in day one of EA you have been playing what maybe 20 days. End game is End game no company in their right minds would be concentrating on end game content this early. And no investors would approve should a stupid move.

 

Most people playing MMOs never even get to end game. And in most MMOs only a select few really get to play it anyway as it quickly gets dominated by end game guilds that only do the content.

 

Let me say in plain English. Catering to 1% or even 10% of your costumer base at the expense of the rest is bad business in any book.

 

Catering to the people that continue to pay the monthly fee after the first month is bad business?

 

Wow, thanks for clearing that up for me. I wish you were in congress when the housing market collapsed, we could have been out of that crisis in no time!

[Sohtaraz]

I'm sorry but can I get a game where that's not what the end game population did? Only instead of a city it's a space station. And criticism just to be critical is pointless. It's a waste of time that could be better spent doing almost anything else. That's y most people are asking for a suggestion. Otherwise you a hinderance to the solution, w/e it may be, not helping to achieve that solution.

 

Im just curious how do you create solutions to problems without being aware of problems? Critism has allways been a key factor of letting developers know where they are going wrong and this will allways be a case since that creates discussion on possible suggestions.

 

Also ALL suggestions have to be critised as well in order to iron out the kinks and think out of the box, do you think thats a wortless too and shoulnd't be done at all so we just get compromises to problems?

 

Problem is that constructive critism is something that has substance, discussion possible problem sides of both sides (for example pointing out both pvp gear is flawed and the system getting them meaning any solution that does not fix both of these issues will resolve in other issues) but most people are too busy just screaming when someone says "theres an issue" that your not suggesting how its supposed to be fixed. Most people don't want to tell those fixes becouse they will get critised and thats fine, they are not paid developers so why should they be forced to go trough it?

 

And yes solutions should be hinderenced before implementing and after implementing if they have issues. Thats usually how you end up fixing issues.

[Ascendic]

Oooo this is a logically fallacy I haven't seen in a while!

 

Let me ask you this. Am I not allowed to say that food tastes bad just because I'm not a chef?

 

No you are not because you would clearly have no idea what good food would taste like.

[Arkerus]

Why do I even bother trying to inform the stupid...

 

What the hell are you talking about? I just made a comment on SOPA because I saw it mentioned earlier. Pull the stick out of your rear side.

[Theodwulf]

You are right OP....Game design starts on a notpad with a pen and paper and they obviously didn't do that. This game has serious design flaws, when and if they decide to adress these issues, it will be difficult because of the way the game was designed.

 

 

Add Planets ...more tiny "planets" that you go to once? ( larger planents with layered content so people return)

Add Space...What happens to old space and the players who loved it? (should have saved the resources wasted on an arcade game)

Redo classes... That always goes over well! (more incentives NOT to have a lightsaber)

Is a story entertaining....If you presented it to a PnP D+D group, would they laugh you out of the room? (your grand stories are weak and shallow)

 

The issues at hand are not those brought on by lack of time and money BUT lack of foresight and common sense. No One appearently thought this game out to it's logical conclusion. A failure this game will share with WAR.

 

Whoever made the "command decisions" at BW/EA doesn't know what they are doing. Voice acting is polish...You can't shine sh*t!

[Blackwater]

no you are not because you would clearly have no idea what good food would taste like.

 

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[SaltAU]

Did you miss the part where I said I'm no longer playing their game?

 

Did you miss the part where he said you are posting on their forums?

[SaltAU]

Why do you go to the extra effort of posting your posts in grey? Are you a special snowflake?

[Arkerus]

You are right OP....Game design starts on a notpad with a pen and paper and they obviously didn't do that. This game has serious design flaws, when and if they decide to adress these issues, it will be difficult because of the way the game was designed.

 

 

Add Planets ...more tiny "planets" that you go to once? ( larger planents with layered content so people return)

Add Space...What happens to old space and the players who loved it? (should have saved the resources wasted on an arcade game)

Redo classes... That always goes over well! (more incentives NOT to have a lightsaber)

Is a story entertaining....If you presented it to a PnP D+D group, would they laugh you out of the room? (your grand stories are weak and shallow)

 

The issues at hand are not those brought on by lack of time and money BUT lack of foresight and common sense. No One appearently thought this game out to it's logical conclusion. A failure this game will share with WAR.

 

Whoever made the "command decisions" at BW/EA doesn't know what they are doing. Voice acting is polish...You can't shine sh*t!

 

Seriously. What are you going on about? As a long time player of MMOs I think bioware is very strong out of the gate.

 

The primary concern should be fixing the bugs. The overall design philosophy seems standard to me and I am ok with that.

 

They are already working on more raids and more content. If you wanted something ground breaking and non-standard in MMO design you won't find it here.

 

This game however is best in its class next to WoW. I do not agree with anything you posted.