Interrogation Probe Vs. Weakening Blast

[SellecksMustache]

So this is the current spec I am messing around with:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bZbIb0ozZGbbkrrhdM.1

 

Before this, I specced 31 into Lethality for Weakening Blast, but after 5 or so WZ's, I just felt that I was missing something, and when I got I.Probe, it felt like that void was fulfilled.

 

The problem I'm having is im just not sure on the numbers. I.probe is great cause it's another DoT+Snare, but I am not sure if I am losing out on damage by not have WB.

[BlackMercenary]

you know, this is some bad math that I'll need to do, but I'll use my calculator and try to answer that as precise as I can, also, I'll probably miss or do something wrong, but it will probably not change the final result.

 

I'll use the numbers on my character, a not very well equipped lvl 50 sniper.

 

Corrosive dart - 1431 over 18 seconds - 238,5 every 3 seconds 6 times

 

Corrosive granade - 1752 over 21 seconds - 250,2 every 3 seconds 7 times

 

Cull - 606~659 plus 284 for each poison on the enemy each second ( it's a 3 seconds channeled skill, but it procs 4 times, don't know why, but I don't complain) - total damage is (606~659 x 4) + (284 x 8) = (606~659x4) + 2272

 

Interrogation Probe - 2439 over 18 seconds - 406,5 every 3 seconds 6 times

 

Weakening Blast - 625~678 plus 30% damage from the next 10 "poison" effects ( all internal damage counts) -> this effect only last for 15 seconds!

 

Due to Weakening Blast effect, we can't consider it taking all the damage from the highest source, that, in this case, would be cull. let's see how damage would work if we went over each of the 3 cases that spend one of the charges of weakening blast

 

Corrosive Dart - 30% = 71,4 damage -> total damage = 309,9

 

Corrosive Granade -30%= 75 damage -> total damage = 325,2

 

Cull - 30% = 85,2 damage -> total damage = 369.2

 

Taking into account that the best possible way for you to reach the best damage out of weakening blast is to cast either corrosive dart / or granade -> corrosive dart/granade ( the other one ) -> weakening blast -> cull

 

This way you can proc 8 times cull and 1 time dart, 1 time granade, making the extra damage easy to calculate. (85x8)+75+71 =826

 

Now it's time to put everything together, 826+625~678 is the total damage from my weakening blast, while interrogation probe total damage is 2439

 

Making it the best possible calculation, weakening blast hits for 1504 damage over 15 seconds while interrogation is a 2439 over 18; but taking into account the time between blast and cull, comparing with the impossibility to make the probe hit faster, you can reduce the weakening blast to a 1504 over 3~4 seconds.

 

The last factor to take into account would be the cooldown and energy cost, I'd have to say that the energy cost favors weakening blast, due to the fact that it's half the price of the probe ( the probe can cost 16 instead of 20 if you have the skill) but let's see the cooldowns. Weakening blast have a 15 seconds cooldown while interrogation probe is on a 30 seconds cooldown. This means you can cast 2 weakening blasts while someone else can only cast interrogation probe once.

 

Until the last step, the probe looked better, but at the last one, I'd have to say that the weakening blast is a better way to spend your points. The only problem with the blast is that you can, sometimes, have some trouble spending all the 10 charges if you get controled or died, while the probe would keep damaging the enemy, no matter what.

 

Edit: added colours to try and make my points clearer, especially to those that won't bother reading all that

Edited January 1, 2012 by BlackMercenary

[SellecksMustache]

Thanks for that. You definitely put in the work that I was too lazy to do lol.

 

Thing is though, I.probe has a 18 second CD, not 30

[BlackMercenary]

True, just checked U.U I thoght that the range was the cooldown when I saw the ability xD

 

my mistake

[DarthElation]

so since I.probe is 18 seconds, wouldn't it be better than weakening blast?

[vimm]

so since I.probe is 18 seconds, wouldn't it be better than weakening blast?

 

Marksman all day.

[Xontier]

so since I.probe is 18 seconds, wouldn't it be better than weakening blast?

 

Except when you're talking PvP, Weakening Blast helps any internal damage the rest of your team is doing. While you can't burn through the 15 uses of Weakening Blast alone, when you take into account any bleeds/internal your team is doing, that 15 can disappear pretty quick.

[SellecksMustache]

I've done about 50 WZ's as the spec I posted in the OP, and I am enjoying it the most right now.

 

Excellent mobility. Good burst. 3 dots w/ dart, poison grenade and I.probe. 2 snares, one of which is an aoe snare. Still getting 6k+ ambush+explo. probe combo's.

 

This is probably going to be the spec I stick with.

[Xontier]

Out of curiosity, what was your average WZ damage at the end of matches and what is it now?

[SellecksMustache]

I'd say average about 280k or so

 

I tend to go for the objective over side-kills a lot of the time though, so i'm not exactly the best candidate to gauge best possible damage.

[DarthElation]

I did 347k? with Lethality in a voidstar, but it lacked survivability that i enjoy from marksman. ALSO people gotta realize no one has good mitigation against the internal damage including cull and all the other DOTS.

 

Test it out on a tank to prove my point, your cull will hit for max damage along with all the other effects you have on them.

[SellecksMustache]

Yep, I've gone upwards of about 380k on Voidstar a few times. That place is an AOE'ers heaven.

 

But yea, one of the greatest benefits of Lethality is that cull does nearly full damage on tanks except for the white-damage portion of the cull. The dots and the internal dmg from cull is unmitigated.

[Bamfed]

Thanks for that. You definitely put in the work that I was too lazy to do lol.

 

Thing is though, I.probe has a 18 second CD, not 30

 

Even at 18 sec cool down on I.P. You could squeeze in 2 WB in that time and have 20 charges worth of damage eaten up by dots and Cull before you cast your second I.P. And lets not forget I.P. is energy damage that is mitigated by armor while your WB is buffing damage that is unstoppable. Damage wise WB is the clear winner, burst wise it's a clear winner, ease of use I.P. wins for the lazy man! I would honestly not go that far into engineering without getting all 3 cluster bombs AND I.P. To make up for losing Hold your ground devouring microbes and WB.

 

My 2 cents.

[frdrake]

If you aren't getting Iprobe snare then it's not worth it, if you are getting Iprobe then the damage is just gravy as an 18 second snare is brutal.

[Vazu]

If you aren't getting Iprobe snare then it's not worth it, if you are getting Iprobe then the damage is just gravy as an 18 second snare is brutal.

 

Yes, I can confirm that 18 sec slow is massive and it also saved my bu** countless times:D

[Draxyl]

Except when you're talking PvP, Weakening Blast helps any internal damage the rest of your team is doing. While you can't burn through the 15 uses of Weakening Blast alone, when you take into account any bleeds/internal your team is doing, that 15 can disappear pretty quick.

 

I think you should re-read the Weakening Blast tooltip, as what you said is not correct. The duration of Weakening Blast is 15 seconds but it only effects the damage of the next 10 of the AGENT's Poison Effects, and no one elses. It also only benefits the next 10 poison effects, and not 15 If you use Weakening Blast followed by a Cull, the 10 effects are used up in less than 5 seconds. The duration of Weakening Blast is basically a moot point since the stack of 10 debuffs that it applies are gone far quicker than the duration.

 

Also I should point out that the "Cull/Imperial Methodology" spec (or Lethal Engineer as I like to call it) puts out far more damage than full Lethality in my experience. If you spec it and take Imperial Methodology, this also gives you additional damage towards Explosive Probe and allows you to add it to your rotation since it will refund 15 of the 16 energy that it cost to use (each Cluster Bomb dropped by Explosive Probe refunds 5 energy when they explode). In addition, Interrogation Probe is also more over-all damage than Weakening Blast as already pointed out.

 

If Weakening Blast provided a solid 30% increase in Poison Damage for a solid 15 seconds, then it would be worth it, however since it only applies to the Agent's damage and expires in less than 5 seconds due to the debuff stack being consumed by Cull, it's not worth taking over Interrogation Probe.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Draxyl

[Ruanon]

I like your post Draxyl

[Bamfed]

I think you should re-read the Weakening Blast tooltip, as what you said is not correct. The duration of Weakening Blast is 15 seconds but it only effects the damage of the next 10 of the AGENT's Poison Effects, and no one elses. It also only benefits the next 10 poison effects, and not 15 If you use Weakening Blast followed by a Cull, the 10 effects are used up in less than 5 seconds. The duration of Weakening Blast is basically a moot point since the stack of 10 debuffs that it applies are gone far quicker than the duration.

 

Also I should point out that the "Cull/Imperial Methodology" spec (or Lethal Engineer as I like to call it) puts out far more damage than full Lethality in my experience. If you spec it and take Imperial Methodology, this also gives you additional damage towards Explosive Probe and allows you to add it to your rotation since it will refund 15 of the 16 energy that it cost to use (each Cluster Bomb dropped by Explosive Probe refunds 5 energy when they explode). In addition, Interrogation Probe is also more over-all damage than Weakening Blast as already pointed out.

 

If Weakening Blast provided a solid 30% increase in Poison Damage for a solid 15 seconds, then it would be worth it, however since it only applies to the Agent's damage and expires in less than 5 seconds due to the debuff stack being consumed by Cull, it's not worth taking over Interrogation Probe.

 

1. The duration is good if they are LoS'ing you. You dot dot then WB. You can't cull but they will take more damage from just dots at least it is something.

 

2. What was pointed out Interrogation Probe is LESS damage as you will use 2 WB inside of the single Interrogation probe. If you use WB on cd on high HP targets over a long fight it will be much more damage. Especially if your I.P. keeps getting dispelled... I already have to worry about 2 of my damage abilities being removed I don't need a third even longer cd one. Like you said you can get WB's benefit in 5sec.

 

3. You've seen what you can do with dot, dot, wb, cull. If wb was 30% all 15 sec no charges it would be insanely OP.

 

3. The above poster pointed out the best reason to get I.P. is the 18sec slow not the mitigate-able damage. I love that but in practice prefer a slow I can repeat every 12 seconds over 18. I know you can get them both which is even better, just saying if I had to choose.

 

4. I have to agree with the lethal engineering build, just not his build with just getting the I.P. with only 15% slow and no cluster bombs!!!

 

Edit:

 

a. On a side note I feel like I'm not doing it right unless I shatter shot before I use I.P. to get the most out of it. It must be my OCD. So not having it takes the pressure off me of really ever using it for myself. I'll still use SS for my team but I don't feel I need it for myself unless i really want someone dead in one rotation.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Bamfed

[Bamfed]

So this is the current spec I am messing around with:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bZbIb0ozZGbbkrrhdM.1

 

Before this, I specced 31 into Lethality for Weakening Blast, but after 5 or so WZ's, I just felt that I was missing something, and when I got I.Probe, it felt like that void was fulfilled.

 

The problem I'm having is im just not sure on the numbers. I.probe is great cause it's another DoT+Snare, but I am not sure if I am losing out on damage by not have WB.

 

Sorry I got side tracked I'm so A.D.D. here is your spec you need

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400ZrI0boRZGbbkrMhz.1

 

 

This is the spec your looking for with the mandatory talents in place. The last four points unused are 100% preference and highly situational

 

There are 2 talents in the lower tiers that can be moved:

 

Engineer's Tool Belt > Vitality Serum (for more survivability and less aoe spam)

I like vitality serum myself but Void Star rocks with 3 sec frags and great synergy with 2 of your floater talents into Experimental Explosives

 

and

 

Deadly Directive > Razor Edge (slower cast on cull/SoS for more damage on melee)

I go alacrity i buff cull all day long before anything. if I'm cutting someone that means I'm too close and probably going to die run don't cut.

 

Don't get calculated pursuit you should never be using snipe. And how annoying is it to find a spot for snipe on your non cover bar!? AMIRITE?

 

good luck this spec blows peoples faces off even though I prefer my 2/8/31 full lethality build you could probably kill me with this spec with all it's burst.

[Pinworm]

I've tried 2/16/23 and full lethality and I do way more damage as 2/16/23. It's in comprehensively better imo. The bonuses to Explosive Probe are awesome too, and cluster bombs help a lot with energy.

 

I didn't pick up the aoe snare for Corrosive grenade though, nor the slow for Interrogation Prob. So I have no slows, which can be a downer.. I wonder if it's worth it, but I'm not sure what i'd give up for it.

 

This is my spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bZbI0rRoZGbbkrMhd.1

Edited February 1, 2012 by Pinworm

[dknyderp]

Weakening blast also does not effect the main portion of cull the channelled damage. It only effects the internal bonus that it does per application of pois dots.

[imbrium]

Quick questions. Did you take into consideration that Interrogation probe is affected by armor? (mainly for pvp) Will this still be better than wounding considering this?

[Bamfed]

I've tried 2/16/23 and full lethality and I do way more damage as 2/16/23. It's in comprehensively better imo. The bonuses to Explosive Probe are awesome too, and cluster bombs help a lot with energy.

 

I didn't pick up the aoe snare for Corrosive grenade though, nor the slow for Interrogation Prob. So I have no slows, which can be a downer.. I wonder if it's worth it, but I'm not sure what i'd give up for it.

 

This is my spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bZbI0rRoZGbbkrMhd.1

 

Efficient engineering could easily be moved and should be moved to inventive interrogation.

 

You have 2 trees worth of energy returns. You will be fine without wasting 2 points just to save 4 energy every 18 and 30 seconds. The only other option would be losing damage on your cull or crit on your call (witch I'm not a fan of) but you could get both slows by doing this and then dropping Steady shots or razor rounds. Razor rounds would be easier to make up for with gear.

 

This being exactly the spec I posted earlier with the optional points in place.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Bamfed

[Bamfed]

I think you should re-read the Weakening Blast tooltip, as what you said is not correct. The duration of Weakening Blast is 15 seconds but it only effects the damage of the next 10 of the AGENT's Poison Effects, and no one elses. It also only benefits the next 10 poison effects, and not 15 If you use Weakening Blast followed by a Cull, the 10 effects are used up in less than 5 seconds. The duration of Weakening Blast is basically a moot point since the stack of 10 debuffs that it applies are gone far quicker than the duration.

 

Also I should point out that the "Cull/Imperial Methodology" spec (or Lethal Engineer as I like to call it) puts out far more damage than full Lethality in my experience. If you spec it and take Imperial Methodology, this also gives you additional damage towards Explosive Probe and allows you to add it to your rotation since it will refund 15 of the 16 energy that it cost to use (each Cluster Bomb dropped by Explosive Probe refunds 5 energy when they explode). In addition, Interrogation Probe is also more over-all damage than Weakening Blast as already pointed out.

 

If Weakening Blast provided a solid 30% increase in Poison Damage for a solid 15 seconds, then it would be worth it, however since it only applies to the Agent's damage and expires in less than 5 seconds due to the debuff stack being consumed by Cull, it's not worth taking over Interrogation Probe.

 

As of January 21, 2012 WB charges are used up by other agents on your team.

[TheDeacon]

Do the two slows from I.Probe and C.Grenade stack to nerf movement by *60%*? Because if so, that's quite honestly a death sentence in PvP itself, assuming they're out in the open and exposed.

 

Also, something to consider for a PvP Lethal Grenadier spec: while I'm unsure of how dispel prioritizes debuffs to be removed, I can only assume that there's a good chance that I.Probe will take the hit in place of either C.Dart or C.Grenade to keep at least one poison on the enemy for you to Cull.

Edited February 2, 2012 by TheDeacon