PvP Ladder and Arenas

[Paganini]

I was sorely, SORELY disappointed to learn that SWTOR did not have ether a ladder system OR and arena pvp type. I was wondering, is there any intention to introduce these things in the (near) future? If not, why not?

 

I would also like to get some good discussion of opinions on this topic.

 

My personal opinion is that Arena pvp really distinguishes good pvp players from great ones. In the all out rather unorganized brawl that most pvp currently is, arena pvp would give a more confined space, a more concise battle between a few opponents. A better measure of not only your skill but your opponents skill as well. And with the arena would have to come a rankings ladder, which would not only give something additional to strive for, but would also incite competitive attention to the game. Open up a new avenue for people who enjoy good pvp and not JUST Star Wars.

 

As a player who absolutely LOVES pvp in all the games that I play, I am seriously worried that once I get to level 50 there won't be enough in the game left to hold my interest. Once I have run every flashpoint, dungeon, raid, type thing ONCE, I will be satisfied with pve and will look to pvp to fill the gaps left. If all I have open to me are the current battle grounds I really do not see myself sticking around.

 

I feel almost like the game is currently running off of a gimmick. That gimmick being Star Wars itself. I fell like once that runs out, and there is no where else for me to turn I will be done with the game.

 

I may just be one player, and you may find yourself thinking 'who cares if you stick around', but I bet I am not the only one who feels like this. Personally I would like to see this game grow and succeed rather then die out. What about you?

 

Totally agree.

 

I don't understand the arena hate. As long as developers don't ruin pve balance for arena then why can't they just add a ladder system for the hardcore PvPers and the casuals can just ignore it?

 

 

Play WoW if you want this.

 

Coming from a former top 10 player/arena team member from WoW.

 

Im tired of this. Just want to have fun. Constantly having to worry about arena matches/etc ruins a game.

 

One reason I dont play WoW or console games anymore. It ruins a game. Go and QQ some more. I like how this game's PVP is laid out. The best PVPers can get lost in a team of 8 with no worries.

 

There is no reason to have arena here. Or tournaments. Or anything.

 

Try getting to the top and have people record matches and make fun of you if you are killed once even though you win the match. Or have everyone in a warzone see you in their group and immediately say "OMG! We are going to win this because *suchnsuch* is on our team!"

 

No. I will forever be against every arena or pvp ladder because of this. I dont want to wake up and have to worry about by reputation because I am on the creme de la creme list again. And have to not play a character because of this.

 

... so just because you're too immature and care wayyyy too much about your irrelevant e-peen then they should just not include an entire feature? Stop ruining things for the rest of us.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Paganini

[Syrdust]

Play WoW if you want this.

 

Coming from a former top 10 player/arena team member from WoW.

 

Im tired of this. Just want to have fun. Constantly having to worry about arena matches/etc ruins a game.

 

One reason I dont play WoW or console games anymore. It ruins a game. Go and QQ some more. I like how this game's PVP is laid out. The best PVPers can get lost in a team of 8 with no worries.

 

There is no reason to have arena here. Or tournaments. Or anything.

 

Try getting to the top and have people record matches and make fun of you if you are killed once even though you win the match. Or have everyone in a warzone see you in their group and immediately say "OMG! We are going to win this because *suchnsuch* is on our team!"

 

No. I will forever be against every arena or pvp ladder because of this. I dont want to wake up and have to worry about by reputation because I am on the creme de la creme list again. And have to not play a character because of this.

 

Lol you may not have liked the fame but I for one would like it. I don't mind people thinking whatever they want. Hatters gonna hate and more fuel for the fire. And you worrying about your rep, is your own fault not the games fault. That should not be a reason to keep something out of a game.

 

There is no reason NOT "to have arena here. Or tournaments. Or anything."

[Ikole]

I'd like some kind of rating system personally, I wouldn't even want rewards for it. But right now Warzones are just a mess. People suck. I'd like 8 on 8 with rating for the challenge / enjoyment / competetiveness alone. 'cos people REALLY suck.

 

Arena? Not bothered. Extra rewards? Naw. Dun care about items. Only reason to gear up is so I am not outgeared.

 

WTB competitive games that require attention, effort, team work.

[RachelAnne]

Totally agree.

 

I don't understand the arena hate. As long as developers don't ruin pve balance for arena then why can't they just add a ladder system for the hardcore PvPers and the casuals can just ignore it?

 

 

 

 

... so just because you're too immature and care wayyyy too much about your irrelevant e-peen then they should just not include an entire feature? Stop ruining things for the rest of us.

 

Us?

 

So you do speak for the community? Ok...

 

No offence dude, but a lot people dont like Arena. They also dont like Arena at wow, did you ever wonder why Arena has such a low "rank" in eSports? It cant be balanced, the setup matters always more than the individual skill.

 

Thats the problem, look at CS, Warcraft 3 or any other popular eSports game. There the player matters and thats why wow could never reach the top regarding eSports.

 

For me and a lot other people did have vanilla pvp, some great potential. We even played some tournaments, but Blizz didnt support it enough - and they thought Arena would work better.

 

From that point of view, I do think that somekind of ladder for Warzone´s would be fun, but only if solo and group queue are seperated. At LoL this works not bad, you got a ladder for groups and one for those who join solo or with 1 friend. Something like that I would like to see at SWTOR too, but Arena is a no go for me.

[Paganini]

Us?

 

So you do speak for the community? Ok...

 

No offence dude, but a lot people dont like Arena. They also dont like Arena at wow, did you ever wonder why Arena has such a low "rank" in eSports? It cant be balanced, the setup matters always more than the individual skill.

 

Thats the problem, look at CS, Warcraft 3 or any other popular eSports game. There the player matters and thats why wow could never reach the top regarding eSports.

 

For me and a lot other people did have vanilla pvp, some great potential. We even played some tournaments, but Blizz didnt support it enough - and they thought Arena would work better.

 

From that point of view, I do think that somekind of ladder for Warzone´s would be fun, but only if solo and group queue are seperated. At LoL this works not bad, you got a ladder for groups and one for those who join solo or with 1 friend. Something like that I would like to see at SWTOR too, but Arena is a no go for me.

 

 

Ok, arena isn't your cup of tea, that's fine.

 

Don't play it.

 

I know a lot of people, myself included, that love arena and would enjoy seeing it in SWTOR, what's the problem?

[JCSE]

Rated PvP that offers the best gear with high rating requirements would be very welcomed.

[Resolve]

I just want smaller warzones, bigger warzones, epic space battles, more choices for gear, ladder system, mounts, housing spaceships.

[MiCcYJ]

I hate people who say "if you want to arena go back to WoW." do they not want this game to succeed? They are pretty much saying " this game sucks, go back to the game that succeeds because it has arena and nothing else does". People who don't want arena suck at arena too much and want everyone else to suffer by complaining as much as they can. Arena separates the men from the babies, and babies cry.

[norfpole]

I hate people who say "if you want to arena go back to WoW." do they not want this game to succeed? They are pretty much saying " this game sucks, go back to the game that succeeds because it has arena and nothing else does". People who don't want arena suck at arena too much and want everyone else to suffer by complaining as much as they can. Arena separates the men from the babies, and babies cry.

 

logging in for the first time since i bought this game to qft this post.

[MiCcYJ]

I hate people who say "if you want to arena go back to WoW." do they not want this game to succeed? They are pretty much saying " this game sucks, go back to the game that succeeds because it has arena and nothing else does". People who don't want arena suck at arena too much and want everyone else to suffer by complaining as much as they can. Arena separates the men from the babies, and babies cry.

[Syrdust]

I hate people who say "if you want to arena go back to WoW." do they not want this game to succeed? They are pretty much saying " this game sucks, go back to the game that succeeds because it has arena and nothing else does".

 

Agreed here.

[Syrdust]

Shameless bump

[Trippend]

Great Thread.

 

I think OP makes some great points but at the same time, Doozzer's response on page two was very enlightening and informative.

 

Personally, I LOVED WoW arena and I would love to see it in this game - but I doubt it will happen because I don't think BW/Mythic have the attention to detail to routinely test and tweak classes for balance that arena requires.

 

However, as long as there is SOME form of competitive pvp being introduced that distinguishes good players from bad - and even more so, the best from the best, then I believe I will be happy.

[Syrdust]

I would rather stay hopeful and think that bioware could do it better. Different, ect. And I really do think they need SOME form of competitive pvp. I will get bored of stomping on noobs till I get ganked 5v1 in world really boring really fast.

[Tehbritain]

I would absolutely LOVE to have an arena in Star wars. Arena gives people something to practice and strive to be good at. Almost everyone loves a little competition and with a ranking system casual players can stay at a lower rating to play people who are lower rated as well while the people who are more hardcore can try to get into the top % of players on their servers. I would also love to see Ilum come to life if they could make that happen somehow, instead of just win trading.

[Soazak]

...and I got here just in time.

 

Arena touched me in a naughty place when I was 24.

 

 

Arena pvp was probably the worst thing to happen to the pvp scene in wow, and if you track down old Chilton interviews, you can read that he pretty much admits that for all the balancing work and tweaks they had to do to the game to make it work, and what it did to the player community, he would have in hindsight never put arenas in.

 

But that's not the problem with arenas.

 

The problem with arenas is that when you have them, you create a vacuum inside the game where the players aren't in the game world, or in the community. If they're not currently engaged in a 3v3 or a 5v5 match, they're sitting around in Orgrimmar waiting for one.

 

Arena pvp is detrimental to existing world and battleground pvp. The more time you spend in arenas, the less anyone ever sees of you. The less people see you, the less your accomplishments in the game are felt. If nobody can appreciate your accomplishments, then they become hollow, and you lose interest.

 

There is no world outside of arena pvp. There is only the tiny instance it takes place in, and sitting around in town waiting for the queue to pop.

 

 

There's a whole galaxy at war out there, and you'd be standing around in Fleet waiting for a random NPC astromech droid to tell you when you got to play. Making an e-sport out of pvp does not a better game make.

 

 

Besides, if you're a serious pvper, you're not going to get any better at it by doing nothing but recurring fair fights. Winning means surviving, and surviving means killing your enemy, and the best way to accomplish that goal is always going to be 'bring friends.' If you never fight with the odds stacked- either for or against you, you'll never actually be any good at pvp.

 

 

/thread

 

I love competative PvP, but would much rather see some sort of Open World Group V Group, rather than queueing for instances all day from my ship. Arena could be fun in WoW, but you're right, it did become the main focus of the game.

[Juicenewtonz]

I'd love to have arena or some form of ranked organized teams warzone in tor.

[Xinika]

This game can use arena. +1 For all arena support.

[Rawrie]

agreed!

[Repefe]

I want rated solo/dou queue warzones. League of legends style. Don't care about arena. Edited January 10, 2012 by Repefe

[Cyphen]

While I value your opinion, I unfortunately disagree with you.

 

I do not agree on making an MMO become competetive and/or into an e-sport.

 

I prefer regular FPS and RTS games for such type of gameplay instead and not "FOTM classes MMOs" and their obvious class balance problems and other issues.

 

That is incorrect, there will be FOTM specs regardless whether Arena will or will not be ingame.

 

Iv engaged in Arena conversations so many times I am not even bothering writing here anymore.

 

It really comes down to how they design DM styled PvP. I sure hope for Ranked Ladders.

[esorydal]

they should bring in cross realm arena and war grounds the game will grow if this happens Edited January 10, 2012 by esorydal

[Tryllerik]

Im kinda biased but again I simply cant stand arenas! IT cant be balanced and youll get QQ all day. And ofc its a developers worst nightmare to start balancing a game around 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2.

 

Nah I propose and would like to see 2 things more favoured:

 

1: World pvp! BW alrdy have the planet systems and the war. In my eyes thats where the most pvp should happen - its star wars and there is a whole galaxy or 5 to conquer! Imho its one big failure that atm there is no real point in world pvp when its so obvious that it has sooo much potential in this game!! Think Warhammer in space now we just need a 3rd faction - Hutts maybe or mercenarys from both sides... I dont know be creative for once and forget the small sighted crappy arena mentality - its simply dosent make sense in a game like SWTOR!

Fight for fame and power of the galaxy!

 

2: IF you rly a virtuel number to acknowledge that your good (again Im in my 30´s and dont understand this mentality at all) But then I propose a Huttball league with promotions and relegations, champions, transfer of players, sponsorships, you name it OR make ranked warzones.

 

 

PvP dosent have to give you shinnys and the I want this and that mentality is getting old now - the more ppl QQ and whine the crappier the games become! Maybe because most what ppl suggest are ordinary and crap just like modern music and television.

 

Not everything in life has to be dumbed down!

[Scelerant]

Problem being that if you want your game to grow and to prosper you need to appeal to more then just casual players. There are sooooo many competitive gamers out there, and while not ALL of the pvp needs to be competitive I think some of it does. The mmo does not need to be ENTIRELY competitive but lets face it, that is where WoW got most of its game from. Swifty, Athene, Wreakful, (spelt that wrong) all pvp men. All made the game grow.

 

In my experience quite a few of the competitive gamers who have experience outside "competitive" gaming in MMORPGs look at E-sport MMOs with disgust for good reason. For one class balance, combo balance and so on become very important so unless the game can be balanced perfectly so that every combo is equally viable, the only truly competitive gameplay you could come up with would be mirror combo vs mirror combo.

 

I'm not against a PvP ladder, but it needs to be done in a way where it doesn't require classes to be perfectly balanced because they never will be.

[Apokalypsis]

Why the **** you call yourself competitive players?

 

Arena is for casual players, arena isnt even pvp in a MMO, because it is not masive, its just an instance fight 1vs1 2vs2 3vs3. You can do that in 1000 f2p games. This is a MMO, lets focus on real pvp problems.

 

Arenafags calling themselves pros is hilarious.