PVP needs Help... Here are some Suggestions.

[icest]

So the state of PVP is HORRID. enough said, here are some suggestions. 

1.  for the mean time Please add in a bolstering SYSTEM for end game PVP.  The removal of Ranked has turned non-Ranked into Rank PVP.  You really can't even play PVP unless your near max gear rating.  which is honestly just punishing to new players or anyone who hits 80 and does not have gear ready. 

2. either remove PREMADE PVP groups or add a selection in PVP modes specifically for PREMADE groups, in non-Ranked/ Ranked PVP modes. This has been an issue for years and has tore down the PVP population. PREMADE group boast some significant advantages that do not apply to non-premade. For example, a lot of them coordinate VIA discord with MICS or are able to configure a group that has dominating METAS. 

3. Reintroduce a leaderboard/ranked/ TIER system mode for EXPERT PVPVERS/ at near max gear rating. When the item rating scales up I think there should be a delay before ranked becomes available to give players time to hit near max item rating.  Mixing in ELITE, geared, skilled PVP players with casual or improving players has made PVP toxic and cruel. Not saying this was the intention but that is how PVP currently is.   below level 80 and above I actually think at a certain point depending on your PVP rating you need to be moved to ranked or a higher tier warzone mode. 

4. Please PLEASE create a new game mode that removes the original objectives from existing maps, that allows players to have team battles. Allow the teams to win either by points from killing the opposing team or by having their team hold ONE specific region and clearing out the opposing team from that region. the point would be for your whole team to stay in one area fighting for the whole match.  This is to help appeal to the apart of the community that wants nothing to do with warzone objectives. I understand that's what they want to do, I understand sometimes its fun just to battle things out. I however do enjoy focusing on warzone objectives as a team and I have been in so many recent games where no caresss at all about the objectives. I literally just went around doing the objectives to get my team the victory so I could advance weekly. while yes it made things easy, that was not fun at all. This is also killing PVP. 

5. Every HUTTBALL Arena please please add in a mechanic that removes the ability to stealth on the stairs or any connecting platform As well as the opposing teams goal line. Also restrict/reduce/limit/shorten MOBILITY enhancements while on the stairs or any platforms leading to the opposing team's goal.  Make the ball have a debuff called suppressive weight or something.  the main mechanic is supposed to be passing and team coordination focusing around the Hutt ball.  I think CCs are plenty annoying and restrictive in huttball but the stealth and constant mobility are just abusing the game mode into the ground.  For example the OP/SMUG cut the distance for the OP/SMUG in half and even reduce the ability to one charge in the designated areas. same with the knights/ warriors blade blits. MERCS and COM backward jettison reduce the distance and limit to one charge. CON/INQ reduce force speed duration/speed same with VAN/powertanks mobilty charge. Also make it so tanks can't swap with players or leap to them while directly in the endzone.  pulls and ccs are still fine.  

6. Consider adding 1V1 2V2 3V3 modes with rewards. It just gives more options until the player population hopefully improves. Once again these all need mode variations. non/rank tier, Premade/solo.

7. Honestly if PVP is just a lost cause and is going to take to many resources to fix just let it die and focus on the PVE and storytelling aspects of SWTOR.  Or at least shelve it until a new system can be brought up in the future. 

 

[Zunayson]

1. No, gear is a minor factor compared to the massive chasm that is the skill gap. This cannot be fixed "within" pvp because it applies to the whole game. It likely cannot be fixed.

2. Yes, they should definitely revert it to 4 man premade cap and just have a seperate 8 man queue (that anyone, including solo players, could opt-in to). I don't know if this would cost a lot of development resources.

3. No, this is just asking for ranked pvp back, and also asking for skill-based match-making. It is not a business priority and ranked is not coming back. They can't implement skill-based matchmaking and they won't try.

Yes, I agree that character level is a poor way to gauge player ability. The easiest fix here is to have valor level brackets instead of character level brackets. Again, I don't know if this would cost too much development resources.

4. Your suggestion appears to be, "have one objective instead of multiple" in order to concentrate teams into a team fight. A couple of problems with this:

• Huttball is a single objective (the ball) but people still run around and death match.
• Death matchers will simply clear the space at the start, and then leave the space to proceed to spawn camp, since that is the quickest way to re-initiate combat 

Deathmatchers don't abhor objectives because it involves clicking blue things and "ew that's pve"; they just want to kill things. The best way to appease that demographic is slapping the Odessen Proving Grounds respawn logic on all the existing maps, and just not having an objective.

5. Yes, the mobility creep is insane. There has not been equivalent CC-creep, which is why we both feel that CC and pulls are fine in Huttball.

I think the correct move here is to remove mobility from all classes. This will make the game easier for new players, improve the experience for all players because the engine is bad, and also be a buff for my pet ranged caster class (getting off 1.4 second casts was much easier at launch, and game balance does not account for this fact). Unfortunately, my opinion would be received poorly by the community, judging by their response to pruning (which I still generally like).

6. Yes, this would be a pipe dream of mine but probably costs too much development resources.

7. PvP is already dead so I don't know how to interpret this.

[VegaMist]

1. Considering how easy it is currently to get decent 80-level gear (Hyde and Zeek being the best starting option), and then obtain whatever set you want, the main issue here is player's ignorance. Gearing system could use some simplification - currently, too many ways which gets confusing - but to say "You really can't even play PVP unless your near max gear rating" is incorrect to say the least. Gear helps but skill is what matters the most.

2. Limit premades to max of 4, but removing it completely will effectively kill whatever is left of PVP. I, for example, would leave SWTOR all together if PVP removed the ability to group up, even though I mostly play solo right now (and I guarantee I'm not alone).

3. Ranked was unsustainable which is why it was removed. Also, from experience, it's almost never the skilled players who are so called "toxic" in PVP. Usually, it's some mediocre individuals with loud mouths - some people may yell back at them, and most just laugh (usually silently) or roll their eyes.

4. We already have a mod like that - it's called Arenas.

5. Hard NO. Every class has strengths and weaknesses. You're advocating for nerfing some of the classes strengths which will create much greater in-balance than the one you are supposedly trying to address. Speaking of Huttball specifically, if you are focused on a stealth in your end zone, then you don't understand the maps well or how to play them. On 2 out of 3 Huttball maps, the game is won or lost at the spawn point - in mid. The 3rd one has more nuances, but again, stealth in the end zone is the least of your problems.

6. We have barely enough players to populate current modes, so adding more modes is not an option at this stage of the game. BTW, we already have 1V1 - it's called dueling and comes with a reward of your satisfied pride.

7. If you hate it so much, feel free to focus yourself on PVE. Or perhaps learn how to play PVP properly - way too many players barely understand the rules these days. And every time I see "Bring the ORBS" in chat, I know we have a newby on the team.

[septru]

On 10/15/2024 at 2:32 PM, icest said:

7. Honestly if PVP is just a lost cause and is going to take to many resources to fix just let it die and focus on the PVE and storytelling aspects of SWTOR.  Or at least shelve it until a new system can be brought up in the future. 

This is literally already what they do. Except they have lost so many subscribers that they no longer have the resources to focus on PVE or story either. The game is in full maintenance mode and your suggestions have even less chance of being heard than the previous 9999999 suggestions that came 10 years before. 

[Exly]

It's been close to a year since I pvp'ed.  I stopped because I didn't like playing in the same queue as premade teams as a solo player. 

The only thing they need to do to get me to start playing pvp again is provide separate queues for premade and solo players.

I enjoy pvp, but not enough to play in a mixed queue. 

[Beyrahl]

I could login and queue up right now. I'd take the bet at least 5 players in that entire warzone will be under IL cap & or wearing greens without augments. 

Just because some people understand gearing doesn't quite make it "easy" for those casuals who don't want to put in the effort to try to understand it. It is not intuitive or straight forward what so ever. There's always been issues with players not gearing but it's never had the impact it does nowadays due to the amount of stats you miss out on with bolster being completely gone now for max level. 

To avoid sounding like a broken record, players miss out on thousands and thousands of stats, most of these players you inspect are around 11,000 power at best, sub 35% critical, some people even running 3k accuracy because they were told they need 10% accuracy just to land hits in PvE. Sure, while that specifically is a different issue, it doesn't change the fact with stats like that you simply don't really do damage nor much healing output. So why even try if you cannot even harm people? That's the situation a lot of those casuals are in. 

[VegaMist]

8 hours ago, Exly said:

It's been close to a year since I pvp'ed.  I stopped because I didn't like playing in the same queue as premade teams as a solo player. 

The only thing they need to do to get me to start playing pvp again is provide separate queues for premade and solo players.

I enjoy pvp, but not enough to play in a mixed queue. 

We always had a mixed queue. The only difference to how it was prior to ranked being removed, premades were limited to 4 players instead of current 8.

[Exly]

9 hours ago, VegaMist said:

We always had a mixed queue. The only difference to how it was prior to ranked being removed, premades were limited to 4 players instead of current 8.

Your right, the old way was not perfect either, but it was better than the current system.  My point still stands though.  Having premade groups in a solo queue is something I don't like, and with the changes made last year that allowed larger groups to queue in the same queue as solo players did cause me to decide to stop playing pvp.  

[Samcuu]

On 10/15/2024 at 11:32 AM, icest said:

1.  for the mean time Please add in a bolstering SYSTEM for end game PVP.  The removal of Ranked has turned non-Ranked into Rank PVP.  You really can't even play PVP unless your near max gear rating.  which is honestly just punishing to new players or anyone who hits 80 and does not have gear ready. 

I agree, something needs to be done. I think bolster is off the table because it caused far too many bugs and people were able to exploit it for crazy stat gains. I think the better fix is adding a base level of pvp gear to a vendor that can be bought with credits that has better stat priority than the green 324 gear. Also people missing augs is a big issue in gearing, again maybe a base level Aug in a vendor so newer players can get up to speed. Gear is kind of a major proponent of mmos tho imo, so you can't just give ppl the best gear, they should have something to work for in game. 

I think the larger issue here is that I'd venture to say the people who don't bother to get gear are only queueing warzones for the rewards and not that they particularly like pvp. I will touch on that later. 

On 10/15/2024 at 11:32 AM, icest said:

2. either remove PREMADE PVP groups or add a selection in PVP modes specifically for PREMADE groups, in non-Ranked/ Ranked PVP modes. This has been an issue for years and has tore down the PVP population. PREMADE group boast some significant advantages that do not apply to non-premade. For example, a lot of them coordinate VIA discord with MICS or are able to configure a group that has dominating METAS. 

I'll never agree with this. The most fun you'll ever have is pvping with friends. Splitting the queues will only further exasperate the population issue and it flat out wouldn't work on lesser populated servers. This is kind of an issue the community has to solve themselves to a certain extent. Nobody is stopping you from gaining the advantage a premade has. You can make friends, join voice, make ur own meta comp. The devs can help by reducing the group size back down to 4 so premades aren't completely dominant. Fixing the matchmaker would help as well because I can tell u right now you don't always get matched against another premade even if they are in queue. 

 

On 10/15/2024 at 11:32 AM, icest said:

3. Reintroduce a leaderboard/ranked/ TIER system mode for EXPERT PVPVERS/ at near max gear rating. When the item rating scales up I think there should be a delay before ranked becomes available to give players time to hit near max item rating.  Mixing in ELITE, geared, skilled PVP players with casual or improving players has made PVP toxic and cruel. Not saying this was the intention but that is how PVP currently is.   below level 80 and above I actually think at a certain point depending on your PVP rating you need to be moved to ranked or a higher tier warzone mode. 

Public leaderboards is a great idea i think it would motivate pretty much every pvper to actually want to win matches, the dmg/kill farmers dont care about winning currently because there's no reward. Inexperienced players dont care about getting better or gearing up because again...no reward. Only reward is getting into queue and far too many ppl do just that and sit afk in a corner. However, if a leaderboard is introduced then you open it up to people who will win trade and cheat to be at the top of the rankings . This was one of the biggest issues with ranked, and the devs had to spend valuable time and resources trying to police it all. 

 

On 10/15/2024 at 11:32 AM, icest said:

4. Please PLEASE create a new game mode that removes the original objectives from existing maps, that allows players to have team battles. Allow the teams to win either by points from killing the opposing team or by having their team hold ONE specific region and clearing out the opposing team from that region. the point would be for your whole team to stay in one area fighting for the whole match.  This is to help appeal to the apart of the community that wants nothing to do with warzone objectives. I understand that's what they want to do, I understand sometimes its fun just to battle things out. I however do enjoy focusing on warzone objectives as a team and I have been in so many recent games where no caresss at all about the objectives. I literally just went around doing the objectives to get my team the victory so I could advance weekly. while yes it made things easy, that was not fun at all. This is also killing PVP. 

This is also a really great idea, sounds a lot like Battlefront. I'd love for this to be like a world pvp idea, but it was also work for warzones. Again having a leaderboard (and exclusive rewards as incentive for top performances) would diminish a lot of the kill/dmg farming because you'd have people actually trying to win again. 

[Beyrahl]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

I agree, something needs to be done. I think bolster is off the table because it caused far too many bugs and people were able to exploit it for crazy stat gains. I think the better fix is adding a base level of pvp gear to a vendor that can be bought with credits that has better stat priority than the green 324 gear.

They do have the ability to add stats for missing augment slots. Sort of how stat sync currently works with a check to see if a slot is missing. Arguably this could also fix bolster as a whole too. Baking augment stats into PvP gear would be the easiest though, making them unable to be augmented. While it would be a slight bump for those pvers trying to gear up - it'd ultimately not be worth their time for long.