Where’s Vaylin

[Thenightvortex]

Somehow I’m still allowed to post here despite my sub running out a while ago so I’ll use this opportunity to note that this is yet another patch without Vaylin/Syl.

 

Pls Broadsword it’s been almost 4 years since the tease, end the suspense and bring her back, even if it’s a small alert where you can kill her or let her go, it shouldn’t just be left unresolved.

Edited May 30 by Thenightvortex

[JLazarillo]

Getting distracted by finger paints and people in vans offering her free candy.

[VanessaBlackrose]

Vaylin's dead. The outlander bagged her on odessen at the chapter in kotet, end times. good riddance.

[Thenightvortex]

3 hours ago, VanessaBlackrose said:

Vaylin's dead. The outlander bagged her on odessen at the chapter in kotet, end times. good riddance.

Until she was heavily implied to come back to life in echoes of oblivion. She deserves another chance, I wanted to hug her not kill.

[GeneralGyro]

3 minutes ago, Thenightvortex said:

Until she was heavily implied to come back to life in echoes of oblivion. She deserves another chance, I wanted to hug her not kill.

echoes of oblivion would have been a fitting end to the swtor storyline

[VanessaBlackrose]

then they might as well bring thexan back. he's definitely a character i'd love to meet.  heck, if they can bring malgus back, then why not thexan and vaylin?

Edited May 30 by VanessaBlackrose

[Thenightvortex]

3 hours ago, GeneralGyro said:

echoes of oblivion would have been a fitting end to the swtor storyline

Agreed.

[Thenightvortex]

2 hours ago, VanessaBlackrose said:

then they might as well bring thexan back. he's definitely a character i'd love to meet.  heck, if they can bring malgus back, then why not thexan and vaylin?

I don’t mind, still better than the Mando plot.

[Paulsutherland]

If the Syl theory is accurate then probably with Satele Shan doing Jedi stuff.

[Thenightvortex]

2 hours ago, Paulsutherland said:

If the Syl theory is accurate then probably with Satele Shan doing Jedi stuff.

I remember seeing someone on Reddit say that the Syl theory was 100% canon at the time of echoes but we don’t have guarantee that the current writers are still going to continue this plot thread, and I think that sums it up well. They may not have any immediate plans for Syl, but that may change depending on how much there is demand for it. Considering that the whole echoes and Syl thing was a result of demands and complaining and all that stuff of a few dedicated individuals, I think it’s not entirely void-shouting. Hopefully if enough people show interest.

Personally, anything that gives her a happy ending will satisfy me, might be as small as a confirmation that Syl is Vaylin and started her life anew in some stream QNA. But then some people would want to interact with her, recruit, kill, etc so ideally something in game happens too.

[BelorfinSiana]

Well, I hope Vaylin is happy.

[Paulsutherland]

4 minutes ago, Thenightvortex said:

I remember seeing someone on Reddit say that the Syl theory was 100% canon at the time of echoes but we don’t have guarantee that the current writers are still going to continue this plot thread, and I think that sums it up well. They may not have any immediate plans for Syl, but that may change depending on how much there is demand for it. Considering that the whole echoes and Syl thing was a result of demands and complaining and all that stuff of a few dedicated individuals, I think it’s not entirely void-shouting. Hopefully if enough people show interest.

Personally, anything that gives her a happy ending will satisfy me, might be as small as a confirmation that Syl is Vaylin and started her life anew in some stream QNA. But then some people would want to interact with her, recruit, kill, etc so ideally something in game happens too.

I don't know about 'canon' but if you connect the dots it does seem to point in that direction.

If it is true then I want to know how she did the whole body swap thing. Personally I suspect Satele might be to blame for that.

[Thenightvortex]

6 minutes ago, Paulsutherland said:

I don't know about 'canon' but if you connect the dots it does seem to point in that direction.

If it is true then I want to know how she did the whole body swap thing. Personally I suspect Satele might be to blame for that.

Well, canon as in intended by the devs. It’s not outright stated but very heavily implied.

 

Not sure Satele has the power to do something like that, but Vaylin might, her father could and she’s supposedly even stronger in terms of potential. Seems like Satele knows the truth about Syl’s identity and they are working together.

[Paulsutherland]

37 minutes ago, Thenightvortex said:

Not sure Satele has the power to do something like that, but Vaylin might, her father could and she’s supposedly even stronger in terms of potential. Seems like Satele knows the truth about Syl’s identity and they are working together.

Vaylin might have the power but Satele has the knowledge. Regardless though yeah I feel like Satele knows but is keeping it to herself.

[Thenightvortex]

4 hours ago, Paulsutherland said:

Vaylin might have the power but Satele has the knowledge. Regardless though yeah I feel like Satele knows but is keeping it to herself.

One thing I hope they touch on is a relationship between a mother of an estranged child with another estranged child. While their situations are not exactly the same, some of Vaylin’s anger towards her mom could remind Satele of Theron’s own pain and Satele’s abandoning her son would remind Vaylin of her own past. Maybe it will help both of them mend those relationships.

Of course, Senya and Theron can be dead so that might change the dynamic too, somewhat. 

[DuchessKristania]

I'm not a Vaylin fan but now I'm curious. I'm guessing since I'm fine with the character being gone I just didn't pick up on the hints, but what is the deal with this Syl Vaylin connection? To be fair, I also don't even remember who Syl is, lol.

[Thenightvortex]

27 minutes ago, DuchessKristania said:

I'm not a Vaylin fan but now I'm curious. I'm guessing since I'm fine with the character being gone I just didn't pick up on the hints, but what is the deal with this Syl Vaylin connection? To be fair, I also don't even remember who Syl is, lol.

Glad you asked, seems like a lot of people forget/not know about plot thread since it’s been a while at this point.

 

It started with data mining stuff for Echoes of Oblivion, in which the models of Satele Shan students were discovered(the ones you find on the ship with Scourge, Kira and possibly some others depending on choices). One of those students, a redhead woman had two models that were the same visually but with distinct names, “SateleStudent2” and “SateleStudent2Vaylin”.

This redhead student appeared in 6.2 and her name is Syl, she is one of the two students, with the other being Trad, who Kira declares are dead before the group begins their meditation and enters Satele’s mind. She remains dead throughout the battle with the Emperor and doesn’t get a resurrection on screen. However, there is a a very specific shot when all characters gather where Vaylin’s spirit side eyes Syl’s corpse in the mindscape. Later on, Syl gets miraculously revived. She is seen in the scene where Aryn Leneer approaches Satele and gives off a frown/pout which Vaylin is known for doing. This resurrection is mentioned in an email from Satele which calls it a miracle without clear reason, a gift from the force. Notably, the other student who died stays dead. If Senya’s alive there’s an email from her that she feels she made things worse with her apology and that she fears Vaylin may never find peace, which admittedly doesn’t mean much on its own but it can used to signal that her story is not over yet.

 

Syl’s last appearance is in a short story released before 6.3 which focuses on Aryn and Satele. Syl calls Satele casually by her first name, which Arya remarks upon, and Satele calls Syl a ‘complicated student’ who she knows when to pick battles with. Individually, those details are small, but when put together, it’s a pretty clear picture.

[DuchessKristania]

2 hours ago, Thenightvortex said:

Glad you asked, seems like a lot of people forget/not know about plot thread since it’s been a while at this point.

 

It started with data mining stuff for Echoes of Oblivion, in which the models of Satele Shan students were discovered(the ones you find on the ship with Scourge, Kira and possibly some others depending on choices). One of those students, a redhead woman had two models that were the same visually but with distinct names, “SateleStudent2” and “SateleStudent2Vaylin”.

This redhead student appeared in 6.2 and her name is Syl, she is one of the two students, with the other being Trad, who Kira declares are dead before the group begins their meditation and enters Satele’s mind. She remains dead throughout the battle with the Emperor and doesn’t get a resurrection on screen. However, there is a a very specific shot when all characters gather where Vaylin’s spirit side eyes Syl’s corpse in the mindscape. Later on, Syl gets miraculously revived. She is seen in the scene where Aryn Leneer approaches Satele and gives off a frown/pout which Vaylin is known for doing. This resurrection is mentioned in an email from Satele which calls it a miracle without clear reason, a gift from the force. Notably, the other student who died stays dead. If Senya’s alive there’s an email from her that she feels she made things worse with her apology and that she fears Vaylin may never find peace, which admittedly doesn’t mean much on its own but it can used to signal that her story is not over yet.

 

Syl’s last appearance is in a short story released before 6.3 which focuses on Aryn and Satele. Syl calls Satele casually by her first name, which Arya remarks upon, and Satele calls Syl a ‘complicated student’ who she knows when to pick battles with. Individually, those details are small, but when put together, it’s a pretty clear picture.

Interesting, thanks for filling me in. I kind of zipped through that content so I didn't notice any of that. I'm not a Vaylin fan, don't dislike her, she was just the baddie I needed to kill, lol. Still, it could be a cool story to explore further.

[Paulsutherland]

2 hours ago, DuchessKristania said:

I'm not a Vaylin fan but now I'm curious. I'm guessing since I'm fine with the character being gone I just didn't pick up on the hints, but what is the deal with this Syl Vaylin connection? To be fair, I also don't even remember who Syl is, lol.

Syl's the angry ginger.

[DuchessKristania]

Thank you, someone else filled me in on the backstory stuff, but the visual is helpful. I do vaguely remember wondering the camera seemed to focus on that "extra" when I was playing, lol.

[Traceguy]

Wow, I'm oblivious. I've played Echos of Oblivion numerous times, and just played it again a few weeks ago. I never picked up on any of this.

[DuchessKristania]

25 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

Wow, I'm oblivious. I've played Echos of Oblivion numerous times, and just played it again a few weeks ago. I never picked up on any of this.

Lol, same! It's interesting though, glad I asked about it. If I take another character through I'll be paying attention for it.

[Thenightvortex]

55 minutes ago, DuchessKristania said:

Interesting, thanks for filling me in. I kind of zipped through that content so I didn't notice any of that. I'm not a Vaylin fan, don't dislike her, she was just the baddie I needed to kill, lol. Still, it could be a cool story to explore further.

Thanks, I’m glad I could be of help!

 

I like Vaylin’s personality in KOTFE and imo she’s very pretty, but the reason I care so much and want her to have an opportunity for a happy ending is because she’s imo by far the most tragic and sympathetic member of Valkorion’s family but the narrative pays no respect to this tragedy and mistreats her in a number of ways. It’s fine if they wanted to tell a story of someone who was broken too much to ever be healed and had to die as she wouldn’t stop being a danger, it’s tragic yet realistic, but in Vaylin’s case the execution is bad and doesn’t stick the landing, so I don’t mind her coming back and getting another shot.

 

For how exactly narrative mistreats her, check this post(not mine) that more or less started the campaign for Vaylin’s resurrection back in the day.

https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/81rvet/bring_back_vaylin/

[Ramell]

You can't fix her.

[Thenightvortex]

1 minute ago, Ramell said:

You can't fix her.

Why not?