Can SWTOR No Longer Even Afford a New Flashpoint? Just Grind Systems?

[Pirana]

2 hours ago, Guyverarmor said:

It's honestly not hate so much as disappointment. Been watching this game since 2009...played the beta, launch and through the various "Expansions" as they call them, and every time they just somehow...dig even deeper. 

This game could have and SHOULD have been the top MMO for years and years. Bioware storytelling and one of the BIGGEST IPs ever in history. Then you look at what the game has gone through:

How in the HELL can fumbling of this magnitude honestly happen? Serious, answer that question.

I'm upset, angry and letdown by what the devs have done to this game. This game could have been something so damn special, now it's alive on life support more or less (yes, I'll die on that hill, I said what I said).

Lastly, I have just as much right as you @JakRoanin to voice my opinion. I have paid for this game for over a decade, and yeah I can voice my distaste. I have as much right to voice it as you are allowed to voice the stuff you like about it. Please do, I am glad you enjoy the game! I mean that truly, I am glad you do as well as others...but it just sickens me on what they have done with this game. It's pathetic.

Edit: And no point have I ever said the devs are evil and doing this on purpose to piss people off. Am I saying they extremely incompetent in one blunder after another? Yeah, I am. If I have messed up on a Core network design topology as much as they have on their game, I would have been kicked out of Telecomm years ago! 

Spot on. It's not a matter of being upset, but disappointed. We've brought this up for years with this game and every year things continue to worsen, and now the game has finally been passed off to another company, not Blizzard, not ArenaNet, not Bethesda, the game was lateralled to a company whose claim to fame is UO. I have no doubt the developers are competent or they wouldn't been given the game at all, but this wasn't a lateral move, it was a downgrade, at least in staff numbers.

Your Yoshi P statement a bit ago is also spot on. I played that game for awhile. If more people were as transparent as he was, people would more likely be willing to stick around. I'm sure you've seen it, but there is video of him telling the player base, once people have run through the latest expansion and have nothing left to do, he completely understands if people want to take a break from the game, he even suggested it because he's a long time gamer. People like that, whether that's a sales pitch or not, it resonates with a community.

Edited May 10 by Pirana

[Guyverarmor]

7 hours ago, Pirana said:

Spot on. It's not a matter of being upset, but disappointed. We've brought this up for years with this game and every year things continue to worsen, and now the game has finally been passed off to another company, not Blizzard, not ArenaNet, not Bethesda, the game was lateralled to a company whose claim to fame is UO. I have no doubt the developers are competent or they wouldn't been given the game at all, but this wasn't a lateral move, it was a downgrade, at least in staff numbers.

Your Yoshi P statement a bit ago is also spot on. I played that game for awhile. If more people were as transparent as he was, people would more likely be willing to stick around. I'm sure you've seen it, but there is video of him telling the player base, once people have run through the latest expansion and have nothing left to do, he completely understands if people want to take a break from the game, he even suggested it because he's a long time gamer. People like that, whether that's a sales pitch or not, it resonates with a community.

Exactly, transparency is what I am asking at the end of the day. Devs from FFXIV, WoW, and LOTRO do it. There is zero reason why the devs here cannot do the same unless they know by doing that they will whatever pale number of subs they have left. To this day, I think the greatest mistake made was giving EA/BW exclusive license to make SW games because they have shown they really don't care. 

Just really the thing that irks me more is that how Standing Stones Games, who makes LOTRO, can somehow pump out yearly expansions that are WAY bigger than what SWTOR considers an "expansion" with story content, new classes, graphics updates, dungeons and raids (Tier1 thru Tier3 difficulty for each one), in-game activities on a smaller dev team than what SWTOR has (This has been confirmed by latest EG7 fillings stating what each company has) AND on a engine that is WAY worse to work on as well as older (It's a fork of the Asheron's Call engine). Hell, they do the same for Dungeons and Dragons Online (not as much but still) and those devs work on BOTH games. Because of this, I cannot cut the SWTOR devs slack, I just can't. It's being done in real time by other companies, like LOTRO and EverQuest. It leads me to believe that either they don't care, or they are told to do the bare minimum because that's what EA wants.

[Pirana]

22 minutes ago, Guyverarmor said:

Exactly, transparency is what I am asking at the end of the day. Devs from FFXIV, WoW, and LOTRO do it. There is zero reason why the devs here cannot do the same unless they know by doing that they will whatever pale number of subs they have left. To this day, I think the greatest mistake made was giving EA/BW exclusive license to make SW games because they have shown they really don't care. 

Just really the thing that irks me more is that how Standing Stones Games, who makes LOTRO, can somehow pump out yearly expansions that are WAY bigger than what SWTOR considers an "expansion" with story content, new classes, graphics updates, dungeons and raids (Tier1 thru Tier3 difficulty for each one), in-game activities on a smaller dev team than what SWTOR has (This has been confirmed by latest EG7 fillings stating what each company has) AND on a engine that is WAY worse to work on as well as older (It's a fork of the Asheron's Call engine). Hell, they do the same for Dungeons and Dragons Online (not as much but still) and those devs work on BOTH games. Because of this, I cannot cut the SWTOR devs slack, I just can't. It's being done in real time by other companies, like LOTRO and EverQuest. It leads me to believe that either they don't care, or they are told to do the bare minimum because that's what EA wants.

I also played LOTRO for awhile, ultimately what got me to stop playing it a couple of years was the lag, which was supposedly addressed somewhat last year, but the fact they just released another class, another expansion speaks volumes. I won't post the link here, but Google how many games EA has run into the ground, I have no doubt they're doing the bare minimum and milking what's left of the cow, even if the GPM is small.

[LJ_Gibbs]

10 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

This thread assumes, that because 7.5 will not have a FP the entire game is bankrupt. When that is not a known fact. For all the assuming going on there are no facts to back it up. It's entirely possible that 7.6 could have 2 FP's they've done it before. But no, people like you won't even consider other possibilities or say anything good has happened at all.

PS. People are braying mad about an event for cryin' out loud, one that certainly looks less boring than Rakghouls or Slot Machines. It's just unfathomable. Even when people get what they want they still hate it.

Who said it was bankrupt?  We just said they can't afford to do much besides events and the cartel market.  That is far from "bankrupt"

If 7.6 had even ONE FP attached to it... isn't that what your lovely "livestreams" are supposed to hit at or say?  You said they are doing more of them.  No need for a date... could just say... "hey we have a FP that concerns the Voss in the works... more details coming soon"

You know why they don't say that, right?

 

Edited May 10 by LJ_Gibbs

[JakRoanin]

We haven't had a LiveStream for 7.6 yet. They did announce the Shrine of Silence FP in Old Wounds. Honestly I'm sick of arguing. All you want to do is argue.

[GreyestJedi]

To me I would love a Romance-Based Flashpoint. A whole Flashpoint adventure with your favorite Romance Companion and just get a all romantic yet action-packed adventure together. 

 

Thats just me... I play for the Story. 

 

[LJ_Gibbs]

9 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

We haven't had a LiveStream for 7.6 yet. They did announce the Shrine of Silence FP in Old Wounds. Honestly I'm sick of arguing. All you want to do is argue.

What about the last two livestreams?  What about us being almost 12 months since the last FP?  Shouldn't there me time it is on the PTS?

Arguing is stating facts and making inferences based off those facts?

[JakRoanin]

Enough I'm done! There is no rule that says they need to do an FP every update. Just because Ord doesn't have one and Hutta doesn't is no indication that they're never making another one. Ord has some ridiculously hard heroics and a WB. The Voss daily area has multiple WB's, isn't that multiplayer content?

[Stradlin]

7 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Enough I'm done! There is no rule that says they need to do an FP every update. Just because Ord doesn't have one and Hutta doesn't is no indication that they're never making another one. Ord has some ridiculously hard heroics and a WB. The Voss daily area has multiple WB's, isn't that multiplayer content?

In general I'm amazed if people rather experience their storytelling and narrative bits in fp over a full fledged new zone. Made-for-story fps feel like the lazy option, when compared to daily area around the size and scope of Dantooine or thereabouts.

 

Edited May 11 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

7 hours ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

What about the last two livestreams?  What about us being almost 12 months since the last FP?  Shouldn't there me time it is on the PTS?

Arguing is stating facts and making inferences based off those facts?

Every once in a while curtain between our worlds moves ever so slightly, and I catch a brief glimpse of such land of wealth and honey  behind it. World of plenty, where less than a year between updates is seen as a long time. Seven years since last time my favorire part of this game, GSF, been updated. Seven years.7.

In fact, I bet new FPs happen more often than anyone in Broadsword writing  "GSF" on any forum  post or private document for any reason anywhere. I bet like 85% of times  devs mention GSF are typoed attempts to abbreviate  "Group Finder".

Edited May 11 by Stradlin

[recalcitrantIre]

"we're sick of flashpoints"
"please give us more flashpoints"
 

maybe the devs arent listening to player feedback because its so rampantly contradictory

[JakRoanin]

I know right, which is why I laugh at people who keep posting how awful the game is, but keep paying for the right to do so.

[Lenlo]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:48 PM, Guyverarmor said:

It's honestly not hate so much as disappointment. Been watching this game since 2009...played the beta, launch and through the various "Expansions" as they call them, and every time they just somehow...dig even deeper. 

This game could have and SHOULD have been the top MMO for years and years. Bioware storytelling and one of the BIGGEST IPs ever in history. Then you look at what the game has gone through:

How in the HELL can fumbling of this magnitude honestly happen? Serious, answer that question.

I'm upset, angry and letdown by what the devs have done to this game. This game could have been something so damn special, now it's alive on life support more or less (yes, I'll die on that hill, I said what I said).

Lastly, I have just as much right as you @JakRoanin to voice my opinion. I have paid for this game for over a decade, and yeah I can voice my distaste. I have as much right to voice it as you are allowed to voice the stuff you like about it. Please do, I am glad you enjoy the game! I mean that truly, I am glad you do as well as others...but it just sickens me on what they have done with this game. It's pathetic.

Edit: And no point have I ever said the devs are evil and doing this on purpose to piss people off. Am I saying they extremely incompetent in one blunder after another? Yeah, I am. If I have messed up on a Core network design topology as much as they have on their game, I would have been kicked out of Telecomm years ago! 

SWTOR is a depressing example of mismanagement. Do I think it's BioWare Austin's fault that things got so bad? Partially. However, it doesn't help that it appears that BioWare Edmonton was using SWTOR as a piggy bank and constantly cannibalizing staff and resources from it.

Do I think things will get better under Broadsword? It depends on whether or not they can get an increased budget to hire more devs and retain voice actors.

[LJ_Gibbs]

On 5/11/2024 at 9:51 PM, recalcitrantIre said:

"we're sick of flashpoints"
"please give us more flashpoints"
 

maybe the devs arent listening to player feedback because its so rampantly contradictory

"We are sick of Hammer Station" is not the same as "We're sick of flashpoints"

[JakRoanin]

LOL! 

[eabevella]

On 5/11/2024 at 9:37 AM, JakRoanin said:

Enough I'm done! There is no rule that says they need to do an FP every update. Just because Ord doesn't have one and Hutta doesn't is no indication that they're never making another one. Ord has some ridiculously hard heroics and a WB. The Voss daily area has multiple WB's, isn't that multiplayer content?

All the Ord Mantell heroics can be solo-ed. The WB can be done with 2 people, it's barely a parse dummy.

The Voss Retreat area "Elites" (don't call it WB because it's not) are made to be killed by 1 player.

Calling that multiplayer content when people are asking about real group contents like FPs, PvP, GSF, and OPs is laughable.

[JakRoanin]

I only referred to the Interpreters Retreat as WB's because that's how the achievements were worded. I've never been able to do the Heroics on Kessen yet, sorry. I have Cerebral Palsy so maybe it colors how I've experienced the game. 

[recalcitrantIre]

On 5/14/2024 at 1:50 PM, LJ_Gibbs said:

"We are sick of Hammer Station" is not the same as "We're sick of flashpoints"

shrine of silence wasn't a mainline story fp because of all of the complaints about mainline story fps going back several years, absolutely nothing to do with hammer station

[LJ_Gibbs]

On 5/22/2024 at 9:38 AM, recalcitrantIre said:

shrine of silence wasn't a mainline story fp because of all of the complaints about mainline story fps going back several years, absolutely nothing to do with hammer station

Not sure what you're saying about this.

Dude came on here and said someone said I was sick of flashpoints... when they just were sick of Spammer Station

[Yeebo]

I personally prefer new areas that I can explore.  While I would of course love to see new content for everyone, if the developers only have resources to do one thing or another, a new daily area makes the game feel bigger a lot better than a flashpoint does.  I would love to see some zones that only appear in flashpoints like Umbara get zones we can explore and new dailies.

In fact I am back now after being on a break since around Onslaught pretty much solely because they have added enough new explorable areas that it seems worth my time now.   While Manaan absolutely did not impress me, I have really enjoyed some of the other areas.  

For me a new flashpoint is a one and done.  I will only set foot in it once per playthrough to see the story, and then it may as well stop existing for that character. 

Now sometimes I do like to settle in at the cap and run FPs and do PvP for the gear.  But for those characters a new FP added to the giant list we already have is a really incremental improvement to the game.  It really doesn't matter to me all that much what particular FP I'm running in a PuG.  

For me personally the game not adding any new content apart from FPs for long stretches of times is absolutely when I feel like the game is stagnating.  The year or three  in between Iokath and Ossuss was the game completely falling on it's face as far as I am concerned.  I assume that the reason that the devs are focusing on daily areas is that they see more traffic than FPs do, so it seems like a better return on investment to them.

All that said . . .

Probably one new FP or Operation for every two new daily areas is about the right content cadence.  I do realize there are other players for whom daily areas are just as borderline as FPs are to me.  

 

Edited May 24 by Yeebo

[JakRoanin]

I'd love the return of Planetary Story Arcs, more Lore Objects, and new worlds or more Umbarra.