PvP Brackets, and the silly gearing abuse of mid-level

[recalcitrantIre]

On 5/1/2024 at 11:21 AM, HaoZhao said:

Set bonuses were never the problem here and disabling them won't change a thing.

On 5/1/2024 at 11:21 AM, HaoZhao said:

The problem is level 75+ players in perfect gold 306 mods + 300 augments going up against level 50 players in green fleet mods who have been bolstered for 40K extra HP.

protip these players also have set bonus gear, if it was just plain 306s and augs they wouldnt have so much of an advantage and people using the level 75 gear from LotS would probably manage a few wins

the simplest fix would simply be to enable level 76 for Onslaught but lets be honest the devs dont give a crap about this game's pvp and arent going to make it meaningfully better, even with such a simple change

[TrixxieTriss]

On 5/1/2024 at 9:23 AM, Darkestmonty said:

simple design - technical nightmare

• one level bracket, level 80
• all characters are boosted to level 80 for PvP
• all characters have access to all skills for PvP
• all characters have access to all implants and tacticals for PvP
• all characters have set stats based on their class for PvP

 

Pros:

• eliminates level brackets so there is only one queue for Warzones and one queue for Arena
• shorter queue times for everyone
• gear is no longer an issue
• seasoned players won't be effected outside of set stats

 

Cons:

• need an area to set up skills and gear outside of PvP
• a nightmare to program
• new player adapting to PvP with all the skills and gear can be intimidating.

 

FFXIV uses this system and it's honestly the best system if you want pvp to be more skill based and less gear based. The current system, of three brackets, 10-44, 45-79, and 80, will never be fair even if gear is standardized. A level 45 doesn't have the same skills a level 78 does.

 

Yes, I’ve suggested this type of system as a fix for mids for several years.

But not for max lvl PvP which should still be separated from beginner PvP queue. But they could make an amalgamated beginner queue as you’ve suggested from lvl 1-80. Boosting stats, skills & abilities. And they could still have proper PvP gear that people could customise too.

They could do all this by making the current end game PvP (lvl 80) brackets require a gear gate to enter. Anyone at lvl 80 who didn’t meet the gear requirements would be put into the combined beginner queue. And “end game gear” would be disabled in the beginner bracket. 

The seperate zone to setup boosted pvp skills etc shouldn’t be that hard to do. We already have that ability in the Rishi Stronghold. So all they really need to do is setup a community type SH based on Rishi programming & make newbie pvpers go there before their first match & boost everything while there.

They could then add back proper PvP gear for end game that could be earned as a currency as people lvl up in the beginning bracket. 

Sadly, none of that will ever happen because the devs have given up on PvP in this game. 

Edited May 23 by TrixxieTriss

[Skummy]

gw2 and ffxiv both sync you and its mostly even besides the op classes but thats every mmo. But at least theirs an attempt to balance every patch or so. Im not really a fan of that, i like the old way of getting pvp gear for pvp with pvp stats. Wow is kinda doing it again but its still not perfect. But ffxiv seems to have the higher population of mmo players in general were the pvp pops on aether and crystal are pretty short compared to the competitors, So most mmo fans enjoy that system it seems. mmo pvp is just dying i sit in solo ranked q's in wow for hrs. Its not cool anymore with the younger peeps im just enjoying it for what it is cuz the ship going down.

Edited June 2 by Skummy

[Ajalkaar]

On 4/30/2024 at 10:44 PM, supertimtaf said:

Hey y'all, so I wanted to change things here, not talk about the boooring stuff like premades, class being unbalanced at max level and the likes... 

Okay so truth be told, I sinned a bit, and made an alt, rep-side and stuff. So I did what all of us pvp-loving folks would do, and queued for PvP, and as the levels went on I did notice a funny thing in regards to PvP brackets.

The current state of PvP is a bit weird, as right now it's a bit like this :

- low-level pvp is, strangely, a lot of fun due to how weird everything is, and I would say that it's an overall good experience. I'd even say it's better than max lvl pvp right now.
- Max level pvp is... Well it's what it is. Still fun, relatively balanced provided you know what to do, (or bring a few friends in if you suck)

Then we have *mid bracket*. 

Mid bracket is an absolute mess atm, because on one side it can go *very well*, or absolutely destroy you. Which is weird because while I did get my ass kicked in max level or low level, never was it as brutal as it did on mid-tier brackets.

So why is it a mess ? Well because for some weird reasons, you have a bunch of scrubs, which all unsubbed at lvl 75, and are running there with the best gear available, with augments, set bonuses and the likes. They don't do anything else than just queue for mid brackets with a full set bonus to stomp on anyone who's not geared like them. Since they're unsubbed, they're also guaranteed to not level up (at least I'm fairly sure that's how it works), so their set bonuses never expire, and they can keep stomping on and on all the lower level guys.

I'm not against a bit of gearing advantage here and there, but this strongly feels like an oversight from someone at Broadsword.
While not as important as the balance and fun factor of lvl 80 PvP, I do believe that keeping mid brackets in this state will harm the game in the long run, if you can't make it a fun experience for new/inexperienced players.

So can we all agree that maybe set bonuses should be disabled for mid level PvP bracket only ? 

 

Idk, maybe I'm the only one who has seen these unsubbed weirdos but so far they've been kinda ruining the mood. I'm not talking "using a seismo-grenade on a warzone" mood, that's okay and just sad to see, but just abusing what feels like an oversight that clearly gives an unfair advantage to a specific group of players.

Devs are not competent enough to program a working bolster in PvP that’s why cristals are still not working in PvP nowadays.

 

just rush lvl 80 there’s no reason to Q in lowbies unless you are lvl 75 with full gear and wanna have fun 

[Ajalkaar]

15 hours ago, Skummy said:

 

gw2 and ffxiv both sync you

 

Ffxiv is a very bad exemple for PvP

Swtor has a syncing system which is called bolster but it’s trash so it all lead to the same problem devs are incompetent 

[supertimtaf]

6 hours ago, Ajalkaar said:

Devs are not competent enough to program a working bolster in PvP that’s why cristals are still not working in PvP nowadays.

 

just rush lvl 80 there’s no reason to Q in lowbies unless you are lvl 75 with full gear and wanna have fun 

That's missing the point of lowbies and mid-level, which is to allow new players to experience the gamemode without all the max level (or lvl75) crap. Progressive introduction to the system.

 

So yes, if I'm playing with a new player, I want them to experience lowbies and mid-level before, there's no point in telling them "PvP will wait until 80 and you'll get rolled for a week or two at that point don't worry"

I know that the devs aren't working on PvP right now, doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to have the message be heard.

And currently any of that lvl75 nonsense is not "having fun". I don't have fun steamrolling bad players while being carried by my gear. Anyone who thinks this is fun is probably the type to hit someone in a wheelchair to vent frustration. 

 

There's nothing fun about being carried by your gear, nor steamrolling noobs. :')

[Samcuu]

9 hours ago, Ajalkaar said:

Ffxiv is a very bad exemple for PvP

Swtor has a syncing system which is called bolster but it’s trash so it all lead to the same problem devs are incompetent 

Bolster doesn't exist in pvp anymore for the very reason u brought up, it was broken and that lead to exploits. This is why pvp now has a gear cap instead of bolster system.

Edited June 3 by Samcuu

[meddani]

3 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Bolster doesn't exist in pvp anymore for the very reason u brought up, it was broken and that lead to exploits.

which is pretty funny because we literally had the most broken exploit in terms of scaling just at the start of this xpac but they stealth fixed it ( other then the PTS 2.0 bolster  bug that gave you like 400k health and you could one shot everything but that one never made it to live servers)

[Skummy]

FFxiv is bad pvp why are the pops like 1min. I dont think its as good as wow or swtor pvp or even gw2 but there doing something right.

Edited June 4 by Skummy

[supertimtaf]

8 hours ago, Skummy said:

FFxiv is bad pvp why are the pops like 1min. I dont think its as good as wow or swtor pvp or even gw2 but there doing something right.

They're giving good rewards, simply. Cosmetics that aren't the same recycled version every seasons, new emotes, mounts, new housing items...

 

Keep in mind that you only need to be lvl 30 to be able to PvP. PvE and PvP kits are widely different, and you get your full PvP kit right from the start. Armor and stats are also completely standardized no matter your level. It's not a "bolster" situation, it's just "we're replacing your stats by these because these are the ones that work". This avoids the tank in dps gear issue as well btw, pretty neat.

 

But overall, since PvP only requires lvl 30, rewards you decently in exp and has lots of cosmetics that actually change every season (and aren't a recycling of the same armor), well yeah people play it. It used to be grossly imbalanced though, still is on some aspect but they're providing frequent updates on that (every 4 months) to prevent it from festering. Oh and you can't queue in a group bigger than 4 even on their massive scale warzones. For their smaller mode you can't even queue in a group at all.

 

While XIV PvP is full of bad stuff, they certainly understood how to make people wanna participate. Now if you applied those same ideas to swtor, with actual good rewards from doing PvP and the guarantee that the next seasonal rewards will be as good, then yeah you'll have a much healthier gamemode.

[Ajalkaar]

On 6/3/2024 at 9:28 PM, Samcuu said:

Bolster doesn't exist in pvp anymore for the very reason u brought up, it was broken and that lead to exploits. This is why pvp now has a gear cap instead of bolster system.

I just still call it a bolster even if it just a ilvl cap

[Beyrahl]

On 6/4/2024 at 9:28 AM, supertimtaf said:

While XIV PvP is full of bad stuff, they certainly understood how to make people wanna participate. Now if you applied those same ideas to swtor, with actual good rewards from doing PvP and the guarantee that the next seasonal rewards will be as good, then yeah you'll have a much healthier gamemode.

Wish they didn't dumb down their PvP. I can't imagine how much bigger their PvP scene would be if they didn't do that. 
Every time I tried it, felt like I was just sim parsing the perfect rotation whether single target / aoe in a clump or not and only making progress half the time. It just simply felt, empty. 
However, I never tried it after they added their most recent mode.