Leaving a match early penalty

[tsteenburg]

I think 2 simple but major changes could improve things (whether or not Broadsword implements them is another matter)

On the penalty front, leaving early penalties are essential for reasons stated above, however, they could be tweaked. It wouldn't be the worst thing to have the first early leaving be no penalty. This covers the broad spectrum of connection issues and does provide an escape route for various other issues. However, the second tier penalty does remain and perhaps is increased particularly if the second early leaving is within a certain window of the first. However, there should be an exception for early leaving while ahead, particularly while ungrouped. Someone who "leaves" early while their team is ahead almost certainly was a crash. 

 

On the blowout front, it makes sense that they add more mercy rule early endings. And maybe cut the Huttball mercy rule to 4 from 6. Implementing mercy rules helps solo players who end up on the wrong side of a premade by reducing the time to be farmed as well as making it easier to reach their weeklies since the matches would be shorter in that case. The specifics for each wz mode depend on many factors, and Voidstar couldn't have one (and you could argue it already does by the nature of how it works.) 

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, Monterone said:

The only way vote kick would work is if the time penalties are also removed, otherwise it would lead to even worse abuses. Getting kicked now would almost certainly add increasing time penalties, so a group of players could figure out how to keep someone locked out for hours at a time, if they wanted to.

I'm ok with bringing vote kicking back in, but they'd have to remove all time lockouts at the same time.

vote kick could only be initiated on a person that was not in combat, the command had a long timer so it could not be spammed, and could be canceled multiple ways by

• entering combat
• healing a team mate
• attacking an enemy
• earning defense points by being near an objective your team owns
• earning attack points by attacking enemies near an objective they own
• less than 50% of the team voted to kick them

The only people that I have vote kicked were people who were AFK or refused to enter combat or help the team, mostly trolls.

Edited April 21 by Darkestmonty

[kjarnage]

The leaving early penalty is the stick to the carrot of pvp seasonal rewards.  The key thing is to fix pvp for which many suggestions are given in the two threads on fixing 8x8. Herein I do agree that a team mates winning in objectives should be allowed to quit without penalties as it is most likely do to crashes however as you will see in a new thread on 8x8 balance I can see why 5% of the time they may be winning in objectives and being wipeout in kills. 

[AocaVII]

I don't see a downside to no penalty if the war zone is bad and everyone just leaving and letting the war zone abort to start a new war zone that could possibly be more balanced.

Yes if players don't know when a lot of players leave rapidly out of a war zone the war zone will abort. It's actually a workaround for a bad war zone.

The war zone abort function is there for a reason. The reason is if the war zone is bad enough everyone can leave. It's actually a good function. It's intended to reshuffle the matchmaking and make the matches better.

I said in another post. Not being able to leave when the experience of the war zone is bordering on traumatic and emotionally draining is abusive! 

It's like being locked in a prison or some insane asylum and you can't get out. Let people out of the prison, developers.

These war zones that are just absolutely atrocious totally disgust me. I just log off.

Edited April 26 by AocaVII

[Darkestmonty]

9 hours ago, AocaVII said:

I don't see a downside to no penalty if the war zone is bad and everyone just leaving and letting the war zone abort to start a new war zone that could possibly be more balanced.

Yes if players don't know when a lot of players leave rapidly out of a war zone the war zone will abort. It's actually a workaround for a bad war zone.

The war zone abort function is there for a reason. The reason is if the war zone is bad enough everyone can leave. It's actually a good function. It's intended to reshuffle the matchmaking and make the matches better.

I said in another post. Not being able to leave when the experience of the war zone is bordering on traumatic and emotionally draining is abusive! 

It's like being locked in a prison or some insane asylum and you can't get out. Let people out of the prison, developers.

These war zones that are just absolutely atrocious totally disgust me. I just log off.

the problem is the warzone won't abort, it will just keep back filling other people in queue or keep placing people who leave back into the game they just abandoned.

At release it was extremely irritating when you kept joining losing games because everyone kept abandoning the team that was losing.

[Liarrrra]

5 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

it was extremely irritating when you kept joining losing games because everyone kept abandoning the team that was losing.

Personally, I don't mind joining losing games mid-game, however getting backfilled into games that are let's say 10 seconds before it's over, those games, I don't need in my life.
Not to mention there's people that, for whatever reason, care about the winrate stats. I don't think I'd queue again if the first match of the night was like this and I cared about stats.
However insignificant the stats are, they're still there. Getting a loss on a record just because you get backfilled 2 seconds before a warzone ends doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

I don't think removing the penalty is a good idea as that will only incentivize people to abandon matches more frequently. If anything, people should get a grip and take the L. 
I think it's better to try your best and take the loss, rather than abandon the match. Even if matchmaking isn't perfect. However there are instances, like people mentioned before, where you get booted from a game due to a crash, connection loss, or even due to the debuff that's in the endzones. And that doesn't apply only for pvp either. Flashpoints also suffer from the lockout, which at times can be really annoying. If people abandon the flashpoint, then unless you're the last person to leave, you still get a lockout. 

I'm genuinely not convinced that removing penalty would solve anything. Devs should fix the source of 'why' people want to leave, rather than giving them the opportunity to do so,
I think.

[Darkestmonty]

18 minutes ago, Liarrrra said:

Personally, I don't mind joining losing games mid-game, however getting backfilled into games that are let's say 10 seconds before it's over, those games, I don't need in my life.
Not to mention there's people that, for whatever reason, care about the winrate stats. I don't think I'd queue again if the first match of the night was like this and I cared about stats.
However insignificant the stats are, they're still there. Getting a loss on a record just because you get backfilled 2 seconds before a warzone ends doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

I don't think removing the penalty is a good idea as that will only incentivize people to abandon matches more frequently. If anything, people should get a grip and take the L. 
I think it's better to try your best and take the loss, rather than abandon the match. Even if matchmaking isn't perfect. However there are instances, like people mentioned before, where you get booted from a game due to a crash, connection loss, or even due to the debuff that's in the endzones. And that doesn't apply only for pvp either. Flashpoints also suffer from the lockout, which at times can be really annoying. If people abandon the flashpoint, then unless you're the last person to leave, you still get a lockout. 

I'm genuinely not convinced that removing penalty would solve anything. Devs should fix the source of 'why' people want to leave, rather than giving them the opportunity to do so,
I think.

at release it was pointless because only wins counted for the dailies and weeklies. Constantly being backfill game after game meant you never finished your dailies.

[Liarrrra]

7 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

you never finished your dailies.

Not everyone plays PvP for the weeklies. As for the loss not counting towards weekly, that was so until recently.
People should enjoy the match, instead of being focused solely on the rewards.

[Darkestmonty]

34 minutes ago, Liarrrra said:

Not everyone plays PvP for the weeklies. As for the loss not counting towards weekly, that was so until recently.
People should enjoy the match, instead of being focused solely on the rewards.

Take all rewards out of an MMO and what do you have? You have a dead MMO.

I don't find the combat in SWTOR that great. This is a 12 year old game using an even older combat model.

Edited April 27 by Darkestmonty

[AocaVII]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:54 PM, Darkestmonty said:

the problem is the warzone won't abort, it will just keep back filling other people in queue or keep placing people who leave back into the game they just abandoned.

At release it was extremely irritating when you kept joining losing games because everyone kept abandoning the team that was losing.

It aborts. You haven't been playing long enough to see it. I seen it 100s of times.

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, AocaVII said:

It aborts. You haven't been playing long enough to see it. I seen it 100s of times.

only when there is no one to back fill.

I've joined a lot of games even now where I load into a losing game with only a couple minutes left because of a rage quitter. The only games that I've seen aborted were games late at night that couldn't fill both groups and people start leaving and usually on servers like SS, SV, and LV where the populations are extremely low.

And in situations where there are barely enough people to start matches and they get shut down if anyone leaves, abandoning the match so you can queue up again instantly is pointless since there aren't enough people to start up a new match quickly or they would be put in as backfill.

 

 

Edited April 28 by Darkestmonty

[AocaVII]

On 4/25/2024 at 2:13 PM, sithBracer said:

That is complete nonsense. Lot's of good players player mercs/mandos, even today when so many of them left. I played 8man vs 8 man premade a few weeks ago and the opponent had 2 merc dps and a merc heals. And our team had a merc dps (maybe 2??) and a merc heals. The class I see rarely played nowadays is op dps, both leth and esp concealment (I was the only leth op btw).

Once again, complete nonsense. The DoT spec has more mobility than arsenal. The reason few people play it is because it actually requires skill to play it properly, while arsenal can be played with one hand. Arsenal is the easiest spec in the game, it is why so many people play it. No skill required at all. The issue with IO is the setup and energy management, which require more skill to balance out properly. It is so much easier than than it was before 6.X though.

 

Yes, if 4 people attack you at once you are supposed to die. No class can or should survive against a 4 person zerg. Merc, ironically is one of the few classes that can survive it for the longest period of time. Merc is a ranged class. Assuming team skill is even, if you are putting yourself in a position where you can be ganked so easily, it is 100% your fault. This is so common with merc players, it is almost a meme. The ridiculously OP defenses they have make them lazy and unable to learn proper positioning. The amount of merc players that I see constantly standing in "dead man's land" is just unbelievable. And while other classes hit hard, they don't have amazing defenses or the FU net to make up for it. A class can't have literally everything. If you want defenses, range, enet, self heals, etc you have to give something up. Personally I want mercs to go back to how they were in 4.X where they hit hard but had to actually learn positioning to stay alive. With no more solo ranked, there is no point to all these defenses and they are creating terrible players who can't even strafe away from an AoE.

 

So, they are playing an EZ mode class with OP defenses because it is just so easy, and are refusing to learn to play better and instead just stick to complaining.

 

Yeah, other classes hit harder because they don't have the same tools as mercs do. They either don't have range, or OP defenses, or net, or self heals. In return they hit harder, but are less survivable. And I disagree about operative. While leth op isn't even close to as good as it was before the nerf, they are still very decent in warzones and arenas. I play it all the time and still find it enjoyable even though I hit like a wet noodle with lethal strike.

Exception of course is AP PT, that class is just OP, especially with the 20% accuracy debuff.

 

On 4/26/2024 at 9:54 PM, Darkestmonty said:

the problem is the warzone won't abort, it will just keep back filling other people in queue or keep placing people who leave back into the game they just abandoned.

At release it was extremely irritating when you kept joining losing games because everyone kept abandoning the team that was losing.

 

On 4/25/2024 at 1:10 PM, Samcuu said:

All u told ppl to do is queue dodge, which doesn't really fix the problem sorry to tell you, it just pushes the problem onto other ppl who then face the premades cuz they aren't queue dodging. I don't think it's like a crazy thing to ask the devs to fix a major issue in their game like this lol. It's simple groups need reduction to 4 man max and matchmaker needs to be fixed, as I've already told you I've queued in big groups for the very purpose of sniping another pemade only to get pugs the majority of the time. Yes u showed ppl how to avoid it but that's just shrugging off the problem more than anything. 

 

35 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

only when there is no one to back fill.

I've joined a lot of games even now where I load into a losing game with only a couple minutes left because of a rage quitter. The only games that I've seen aborted were games late at night that couldn't fill both groups and people start leaving and usually on servers like SS, SV, and LV where the populations are extremely low.

And in situations where there are barely enough people to start matches and they get shut down if anyone leaves, abandoning the match so you can queue up again instantly is pointless since there aren't enough people to start up a new match quickly or they would be put in as backfill.

 

 

Believe what you want. This game with servers that had 10 times as many players pvping than are on servers right now, aborted. Explain that to me?

You just don't see it anymore because for years there's been penalty so you can't see the difference. 

Do you even know how to search how many people are in the war zones? I can tell you this at best there's 200 people in war zones mostly it's below 100 average 70 sometimes there's 24 people in every single war zone on the server. There used to be >350 to many more at prime time. So I don't believe what you're talking about.

The game itself if you look through steam has about 4,000% less population playing. Understand?

They ruined the game a long time ago.

Edited April 28 by AocaVII

[Exly]

On 4/27/2024 at 3:24 AM, Liarrrra said:

Not everyone plays PvP for the weeklies. As for the loss not counting towards weekly, that was so until recently.
People should enjoy the match, instead of being focused solely on the rewards.

So, you're saying that there are people who do PvP for the weeklies, and you would prefer that they didn't care about them, and you think that people shouldn't worry about rewards.

Do you think that way about other things too?  For instance, do you think that people should work for the pure joy of doing their job, and not expect to be rewarded for their efforts?

If so, then good for you, but I strongly disagree with you on this issue.

[Toraak]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

Games are suppose to be fun but they aren't designed that way, they are designed like jobs. That's why grinding exists, you spend time doing something you don't enjoy because the reward is worth it. That is what games like MMOs and 'games as a service' have become.

Then that is a problem with the player, and not the game. If the activity isn't enjoyable, then by no means should any reward be worth it. If I don't like an activity, no reward is going to make me want to do it. Games are meant to be FUN, and if I'm not having fun, then I go do something I will have fun doing.

Playing a game just because of some reward just brings out Frustration, and anger. In reality at this point your just punishing yourself. You may as well do something you enjoy instead.

[AocaVII]

They made so many players leave the game that the only way to fill warzones is with people who don't even like to PVP. 

It's been a dysfunctional system so this is the result of bad decisions over time.

Eventually unhealthy, dysfunctional thinking, behaviors and decisions result in consequences. Rn we are feeling it eventually, it will return to sender. It always does.

Edited April 29 by AocaVII